GC: In vanillla, hybrids could only heal (except warriors)

[wariofan1]

A bear tank was ideal for the High Priest in ZG due to being immune to Poly.

Bear tanks were ideal for ZG and some MC bosses, but would later take too much damage, so people just didn't care about them anymore and decided to not take them anymore as they'd rather just gear up more Warriors. I actually have a Vanilla manual in the Battle Chest I bought for a second account that says outright that Warriors are the best tanks, got a good laugh out of it reading it not too long ago. I also think it said Priests were the best healers.

[babalou1]

If you were a raider as a druid then you was a healer and buff bitch.

If you were a paladin you gave buffs. And did off off healing or you sat WAY in the back to rez OOC

If you were a priest you decursed and healed. Shadow spec didn't exist as a viable spec.

If you were a Shaman you was a healer or a bloodlust bitch and maybe off DPS (counting to 30 before dpsing).

If you were a warrior you was a tank or DPS

Fixed it for you

Only at the end of vanilla, with all the best gear possible warriors were used as DPS. The only time a hybrid played an unviable spec is #1 they had a high position in their guild and forced them to carry them or #2 they raided months behind in nerfed content.

Not even fucking close. Did you even play in Vanilla?

[Deleted]

Ahh yes Pally buffs.

Applying buffs one at a time to 40 people individually. By the time you've buffed player 38, player 1's buff is getting ready to expire and you need to start all over again. 'Fun'
Oh I forgot the Druids main job other than healing. Mark of the wild.

The old sets were role specific, If you was a warrior collecting your teir gear 'grats you're now a tank!' 'but I'm arms..' 'STFU BITCH YOU'RE A TANK AND YOU'LL BE HAPPY WITH IT!' was basically how the game worked back in vanilla. I do remember some fury warriors in my ye olde MC runs but he was like a singular one, other warriors were tanks and there may have been a Arms in there, but that could have been the one ele shammy with his two hander.

Also who here remembers having to farm soulshards as a Warlock before a raid. More 'fun'.

[Bearshield]

And nobody used hybrids except as healers, nobody and people who said they were - were being entertained by crap guilds who needed to make up numbers. Gear drops were never designed as anything else and everyone could tell thats what those classes were for.

Keep telling yourself that. Hybrid tier was designed for healing, but there has always been offset gear. And AQ40 introduced hybrid sets that were NOT strictly for healing. Maybe the top guilds didn't use hybrids for non-healing roles, but don't kid yourself, not all non-healing hybrids were in crap guilds who farmed MC all of vanilla. I say this as someone who raided as a Druid tank who very rarely healed and my guild was not "crap". And I know for a fact that I wasn't the only hybrid in a decent guild who played a non-healing role. Rare doesn't = nonexistant, despite how many seem to remember things.

[ramennoodleking]

And yet, I tanked everything other then Nax40 (shrug). Was a lot of fun, sorry you didn't get to do it.

Actually my main was a warrior tank, and I was the main off tank for my guil through MC, Onyxia, BWL, ZG, and both AQs. Beer killed a boss in naxx. I remember the days when a warrior could shoot a gun without a cooldown (was fixed later) and you could right click a mob and build your rage bar to 100 before the fight even began. I remember the thrill of kiting on razorgore and the precision of keeping exact threat numbers with your fellow tanks on vaelstraz, and wiping constantly to the first bosses of AQ40.

I sold that account while eBay was still allowing you to post your characters. I don't care if you believe me or not, but I was there and remember what it was like watching my hybrid shaman buddy have to stay out of combat as a rezzer and thinking how lame it was.

[sulfuric]

No, Synthaxx. I am answering to you but also to others who made the same claim.

Warriors (fury) were EXCELLENT as DPS in Vanilla, excellent. I distinctly remember my Officers and GM going nervous at the mere mention that our Fury warriors might be away on 1-2 raid days.

Other people said Warriors could only tank. That is VERY wrong, Fury was melting faces in raids during Vanilla. In fact, they were even allowed to roll on Rogue gear.

You're talking the end of BWL beginning of AQ40 in gearing. This statement cannot be applied to anything earlier than this

[Cairhiin]

GC is 100% right. Hybrids healed. End of. You'd have the random feral or enhancement shaman doing loldps but they were never taken seriously.

I think ret pallys and druids should not be doing as much damage as a pure dps class. Hybrids should have to sacrifice something in order to be able to fill all three roles.

Eh how about no? Besides this being entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, lowering the DPS of Retri and Feral/Boomkin would mean that they just get sat out on progression raids. Just because they can fill multiple roles doesn't mean they can do it all the same time. In most cases it requires vastly different gear, or a total regem/reforge. Furthermore why only Druids and Paladins. Priests, Warriors, DKs, Shamans, Monks are also all able to fulfill multiple roles.

[babalou1]

You're talking the end of BWL beginning of AQ40 in gearing. This statement cannot be applied to anything earlier than this

Actually it can. Fury Warriors were great well before the end of BWL/AQ40. We could keep up with, and surpass, all the other DPS classes. It wasnt until the end of BWL/AQ40 that we became face-melting beasts.

[Deleted]

Ahh yes Pally buffs.

Applying buffs one at a time to 40 people individually. By the time you've buffed player 38, player 1's buff is getting ready to expire and you need to start all over again. 'Fun'

That when all the players agreed with the buffs... The whispers one got from different players of the same class asking for other type of buff...

[blackblade]

In reality, I remember my guild raiding during Vanilla, with Rets as DPS, Moonkins DPS, ferals as DPS, and Shadow Priests as DPS (who were also over buffed during the final stages of Vanilla) though we had dramah every day and -mostly- druid tears about how Druids were doing soooo little DPS.

Boomkins had epic mana issues, and feral druids had like a one button rotation.

Resto Druids didn't have a standard res (just battle-rez), Shaman generated retard threat as Enhancement, elemental DPS was negligable.

Some "Hybrids" had a better spot in life, especially warriors (Many of whom didn't go past 20 points into protection.)



Are you insinuating that there's a severe discrepency between classes now compared to before? I Disagree, by simcraft's heroic numbers, the patchwerk top vs. bottom is only a ~25% difference.

Those numbers are not 100% perfect, but neither are the people out there playing the class. by simcraft numbers, Ret is one of the poorer performers this tier.

I think all DPS specs should do comparable damage. I think all DPS specs who have healing power should trade utility to be able to use it well. (and they generally have to trade DPS to do HPS anyway.)

I think that just because class X can cover three different raid roles, he should not be less effective at any of his three roles. Essentially, your spec should be treated like an isolated entity in terms of balance.

Just because Affliction is a hard hitter, doesn't mean Demo and Destro need to suffer as result of that (even if they don't pull afflictionesque numbers.)

[THoyt]

[...]

OP, your memories of vanilla are far, far different from what I remember.

But GC is right...

Hybrids back then were exactly that, not like the BC classes with hybrid specs. We brought Rets, Balance Druids and Shadow Priests for their buffs/debuffs and healing, just because they were so good at support.

I wish Blizzard would have kept that system in place, it was fun having support classes in group, they served their purpose well, and on some fights, required.

[sulfuric]

Actually it can. Fury Warriors were great well before the end of BWL/AQ40. We could keep up with, and surpass, all the other DPS classes. It wasnt until the end of BWL/AQ40 that we became face-melting beasts.

I don't even think you read what you quoted.

[JakeSteel]

I tanked as a Druid, even in "vanilla". Frankly, it was a lot of fun getting it to work and while I was never as good at it as a warrior my raid group was more interested in fun then efficiency.

Here's me in Blackwing Descent when I first managed to break 20k armor.

More interested in fun!? You sir, are playing the wrong game.

If you're not running the most statistically optimal specs, you're doing it wrong!

[Mayhem]

behold i shall save this thread

we raided naxx40 so i obviously know what i´m talking about, warriors were awesome dps, we had at least 2 or 3, tanks only warriors, with an druid who finaly got to offtank during late naxx when he managed to convince everyone that it was somehow possible

shaman ooc rezz and totembots, later with optimal equip dd was very possible
druid mainly healer
priest heal! o_O !!

everything else dd

horde point of few

[babalou1]

I don't even think you read what you quoted.

I just now did. However earlier you said that "Only at the end of vanilla, with all the best gear possible warriors were used as DPS. "

Warriors were used as DPS through all content successfully and without detriment to the raid. So when I see you calling out someone AGAIN about Vannilla Warrior dps, you have to forgive me if i skim.

[Deleted]

OP, your memories of vanilla are far, far different from what I remember.

But GC is right...

Hybrids back then were exactly that, not like the BC classes with hybrid specs. We brought Rets, Balance Druids and Shadow Priests for their buffs/debuffs and healing, just because they were so good at support.

I wish Blizzard would have kept that system in place, it was fun having support classes in group, they served their purpose well, and on some fights, required.

Imagine the joy! 'yay! I've just leveled my druid and I'm going raiding! Awesome! Hang on..what do you mean i'm only here for a buff and a heal, and maybe a rez....'

Vanilla is rubbish compaired to what we have today. Back then it was great, but I assure you if they opened a vanilla server for nostalgiaweenies then the happy memories of the 'good old days' would be curb stomped.

No dalies.
Mounts at level 40 to begin with at astronomical cost.
Horrific questing/drop rates at ALL levels.
The game stopping if you wasn't in a raid group at level 55ish either that or you really really liked BRD as you needed 10 - 15 men to do strath, scolo, UBRS.

[Nuhpie]

I was a raid leader in Vanilla progressing up to Chromaggus in BWL when AQ40 was the highest level of progression. I would define us as a progression guild (though not the best) up to when I stopped playing in Vanilla (August 2006ish).

Ghostcrawler is generally correct and I disagree with the OP. When MC was on farm, we would let hybrids play other roles for fun, but that was it.

When we were progressing, out top DPS person was a warrior, but the rest of the warriors were mainly tanks. Even our DPS warrior would tank depending on personel issues. Warrior was the only successful hybrid in Vanilla, IMO.

We had one druid tank, who was an exceptional player and earned his tanking spot after me fighting against it for months. If memory serves me correctly, and I could be wrong, we may have had 1 moonkin because of the aura they provided (maybe this was new for TBC?). The vast majority of our druids were healers.

Our shaman were all healers. When MC was on farm and boring, we may have let a few try out elemental and/or enhancement. There was a chance we brought them as DPS for progression, but that was only because we had too many healers but not enough DPS online and/or we wanted them to provide buffs to other DPS (totems were only party wide, I think).

All priests were healers. There was one PVP priest that we brought to MC when it was on farm if we were short on people just for fun for him (no loot for him). I think he did really well on DPS as shadow in PVP gear, which was surprising. He could have just been a really good player.

We were horde, so no pally's and I can't comment on them.

One of the main reasons for this was the itemization for hybrids pushed them towards healing. All set bonuses were definitely geared towards healing and would be wasted on DPS. DPS warriors were the exception and had good itemization (set bonuses still sucked, but they had good offset items).

Regarding this issue, the game is in a much better place now than in Vanilla and Ghostcrawler was spot on with his observation and should not be ridiculed for his statement.

[Sturmbringe]

Imagine the joy! 'yay! I've just leveled my druid and I'm going raiding! Awesome! Hang on..what do you mean i'm only here for a buff and a heal, and maybe a rez....'

Vanilla is rubbish compaired to what we have today. Back then it was great, but I assure you if they opened a vanilla server for nostalgiaweenies then the happy memories of the 'good old days' would be curb stomped.

No dalies.
Mounts at level 40 to begin with at astronomical cost.
Horrific questing/drop rates at ALL levels.
The game stopping if you wasn't in a raid group at level 55ish either that or you really really liked BRD as you needed 10 - 15 men to do strath, scolo, UBRS.

On the flip side, people with full epic gear with treated as Gods, and people in D1 were viewed as folk heroes. If they opened a Blizzard Vanilla server, I'd quit MoP immediately. I suspect many others would but that's besides the point.

Also, nothing in today's WoW can compare to the pure joy you got when you completed the quest for Blackhand's Breadth and when you won an epic raid roll. Nothing.

[koimagheul]

Druids/paladins healed in vanilla, period :P

false. paladins did not heal during vanilla. they were spamming decursive whenever they weren't refreshing their 5 minutes buffs.

[Deleted]

On the flip side, people with full epic gear with treated as Gods, and people in D1 were viewed as folk heroes. If they opened a Blizzard Vanilla server, I'd quit MoP immediately. I suspect many others would but that's besides the point.

Except it wouldn't happen that way today. No one cares a rat's ass about how the others are geared like anymore.