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  1. #1

    Why do people think rogues are so bad?

    It's simple. Rogues are the weakest any class has ever been in PVP since I can remember. Even feral druids in vanilla weren't this bad (I played one and was actually pretty decent with it).
    Blizzard shit all over us and with few buffs in 5.1 I see no reason to play rogue this season. Sadly Fellow Rogues we should either reroll or sit out this season.
    This is just two of extemely many whines and complaints all over the internet, why do people think we are THAT bad?

    I didn't play rogue in cata, and i personally think that when prep is baseline (or even better, if it gets removed and compensated with lower CDs) i think rogues would be pretty balanced and extremely fun to play. I never liked prep, and i like rogues right now (the fact that i can see that it's about skill now, rather than just destroying enemies as if you were any of the other melee classes).

    why are they all whining?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 06:53 PM ----------

    actually i agree with this one quote, though:

    beside all the nerfs u mentioned before rogues do not have anything special now - every our spell has been given to other classes. damn it, paladin with sprint? wth is this? we have NOTHING UNIQUE - we have been salvaged to pieces and dispatched to other classes. druids with shadowstep and stealth? invisible hunters? and now, since all crit upgrading talents are gone, we dont hit big at all. AND THATS WHY most ppl played roguie - quick time, big numbers, vanish. now cat druids does what rogues supposed to be doing. but they can quickly morph into healer and then tank and reattack. rogues cant.
    - except that we still have shroud of concealment and smoke bomb.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    have you done 3v3 this season at decent mmr? melee cleaves eat rogues for breakfast, its bad.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal Wheater's Avatar
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    From a healer perspective: When a rogue attacks me, I don't fear death, I fear annoying kicks/gouges/Castable-stuns/smokebombs/blinds/Auto-stuns/saps. They have amazing utility, but they are a bit squishy, and damage output is low. As for the worst class ever in pvp? LoL not even close.

  4. #4
    yeyyyy, tha'ts right, even when i try in a crapy bg to go on a healer....... hes dead........... from me anoyng him........... a druid healer let me harass him allot , over 5 min, he just heal and let me dps , heal and let me dps, rooted me after, bash me, rooted again, after cat form and im dead yeyyyyyyyyyyyyy it was so funnnnnnnnnn mhmmm i love it even now.

  5. #5
    Rogues have a critical design flaw -- they are close-combat melee when they should be mid-range attackers combining missile attacks with rush-attacks. Rogues should only have to move in one-shot range for very special attacks. All the stuff around the boss and bosses which have their backs to walls or cliff make it too difficult to stand in short (one-shot) range.

  6. #6
    I, personally, have been enjoying my rogue since MoP. I have been PvPing and PvEing as Assassination and it's been working out well. With the proper play style you can be like a warrior and keep an enemy cc'd basically until their death...

    The QQ is just bad players being out played and not fully understanding the role as a rogue.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Nest's Avatar
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    Because they don't have Legendary Daggers anymore and they ain't that OP.
    Noobs just reroll but good Rogues adapt and continue playing.
    Heyoo!

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Kasperio's Avatar
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    Rogue has become a timing-heavy utility class with excellent ramping for personal involvement. If you're willing to invest the time to practice your timings, try things out and not always listen to SIM's or what everybody tells you, it's easilly my favorite class. Problem is that the SIM is not very accurate for rogues in comparrison as personal involvement and siturational skills are your prime.

    If you're willing to put in the effort to learn exactly what suits you, as the player, at what siturations and prepeare for applications of your various utilities, you got an amazing class. If you just want to roll the class and win without much effort, or treat it as a Warrior or Feral Druid, you'll end up QQ'ing about the class for months. I honestly think they're well balanced despite the gimmicky damage output which could use SOME tweaks, but let's see what happens. I must admit though, I'm not high-end PvP in any way, shape or form, I just enjoy playing the game, and Rogue is a class I enjoy =)
    Enough with bashing eachother, guys.. This community is still young and needs to grow up and show that not everyone are jerks. We're gamers and we enjoy games, don't bash eachother over what games they like or their oppinions, but don't let them bash others either. We need to come together and stand up, as a community, and help eachother out by being respectful and understanding. Please.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    Saying we're worst than any class ever is exaggeration at its worst. Rogues aren't OP anymore as they have been ever so often so people are flabbergasted. We're still very viable, besides anyone claiming 3v3 is the pinnacle of PvP couldn't be more wrong. Also MoP talent revamp brought viability to all 3 of the specs, which I'm loving.

    Edit; I'm not saying I'm not miffed about every skill that before was rogue priviledge being spread around like butter, but we still are kings of PvP utility and Smokebomb is all ours.
    Last edited by Whitey; 2013-01-02 at 10:41 PM.
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  10. #10
    I haven't feared a rogue since Wrath. And even then I only feared them cause I was a pretty new player and the concept of player stealth scared the bejezus out of me.

    But all through Cata as a Blood DK it was "lol thanks for the free Vengence AP, have a 2-shot death" and now in Mists the only way I don't kill a rogue 1v1 is if he vanishes to leave combat and flying mounts before I can follow.

  11. #11
    they used to be a class with tools they could use against their opponents, but now all the goodies are divided up in the talent tree causing rogues to sacrifice a little to gain a little.


    Tho, if you take the time to actually play and ignore the stupid wow norms that flood the internet every patch, every tier, every season, then you'll see that its not so much the class as it is the community at large that makes them "bad."


    in the end, skill outweighs everything else until you look at individual numbers. Thats where rogues have an issue right now bug if you take that away they're fine.

  12. #12
    Asking, "Why are rogues bad?" is misunderstanding the situation. Rogues aren't exactly "bad". We're decent. We produce competitive numbers and we have a rather good utility kit. The question you should ask yourself is "Why are rogues good?" That's much harder to answer.

    - Rotations are dull, so it can't be the fun factor
    - Spec diversity is at an all-time low, so it can't be variety
    - Class-thematic is basically nonexistent, so it can't be artistic interest
    - Fighting performance is riddled with unfriendliness, so it cannot be ease-of-access
    ...

    So really, what makes rogues good?

    EDIT: On second thought, I realized what we actually were good for; What this list of old, and slightly rusty mechanics used to do well - The mindless stealth-killing with 1-hit Ambushes. That's all rogues were great at, and (to a degree) still are great at. That small level-gap, between 20-50 or so, in which one Ambush, followed by a few Backstabs, is enough to kill an enemy from stealth, upon which you'll either re-stealth and continue one-hitting, or get caught and die miserably...! That's what we once were; that's what our mechanics were designed to do; and that's why we feel so pathetic now that our abilities are mere shadows of their former selves...
    Last edited by Incineration; 2013-01-02 at 11:35 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrim View Post
    I haven't feared a rogue since Wrath. And even then I only feared them cause I was a pretty new player and the concept of player stealth scared the bejezus out of me.

    But all through Cata as a Blood DK it was "lol thanks for the free Vengence AP, have a 2-shot death" and now in Mists the only way I don't kill a rogue 1v1 is if he vanishes to leave combat and flying mounts before I can follow.
    Yeah, Blood DKs. OF course they don't fear rogues, many others still do.

  14. #14
    Blademaster
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    Rogues just aren't very good right now in comparison to other DPS. I love the Rogue class, but it's impossible to get into Rated BG's on my server as a Rogue. They just will not take you.

    I had to resort to a different class, Hunter. It was night and day. My burst is quite high, and utility is still very effective. Rogues are pretty much all utility, and need some tweaks. I really want to play my Rogue, but I just can't get into anything other than 2s and Reg BGs.

    I'm very hopeful for 5.2. I don't want to be overpowered...I just want to have a chance to compete against other DPS'ers.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sneakyfk View Post
    yeyyyy, tha'ts right, even when i try in a crapy bg to go on a healer....... hes dead........... from me anoyng him........... a druid healer let me harass him allot , over 5 min, he just heal and let me dps , heal and let me dps, rooted me after, bash me, rooted again, after cat form and im dead yeyyyyyyyyyyyyy it was so funnnnnnnnnn mhmmm i love it even now.
    I weep this is so funny

    And I am not mocking Rogues. I play one. This is just so true it is funny.

  16. #16
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post

    EDIT: On second thought, I realized what we actually were good for; What this list of old, and slightly rusty mechanics used to do well - The mindless stealth-killing with 1-hit Ambushes. That's all rogues were great at, and (to a degree) still are great at. That small level-gap, between 20-50 or so, in which one Ambush, followed by a few Backstabs, is enough to kill an enemy from stealth, upon which you'll either re-stealth and continue one-hitting, or get caught and die miserably...! That's what we once were; that's what our mechanics were designed to do; and that's why we feel so pathetic now that our abilities are mere shadows of their former selves...
    You pretty much hit the nail on the head. That was the play style I really enjoyed. Now, we seem to get knocked out of stealth by EVERYTHING. When playing a Rogue, I want to feel fragile...but we should also have the ability to put out a ridiculous amount of damage to compensate for that.
    Last edited by jball2k; 2013-01-03 at 04:31 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jball2k View Post
    You pretty much hit the nail on the head. That was the play style I really enjoyed. Now, we seem to get knocked out of stealth by EVERYTHING. When playing a Rogue, I want to feel fragile...but we should also have the ability to put out a ridiculous amount of damage to compensate for that.
    The problem isn't the fact that we get knocked out of stealth with ease, it's rather the fact that being stealthed and landing that "devastating opener" just isn't rewarding anymore. Hell, Ambush is barely being used in PvP as an opener nowadays, simply because it's too weak to be worth it and it nets us no secondary benefits.

    Stealth and openers went from being "The one feature that will turn the fight in my favor, and either make-or-break this duel!" to being "As long as they can't see me, I'll live, and if I play my cards right I may even get off a silence!!! O' Joy!"

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Delighted's Avatar
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    I agree, they could make a special version ambush for shadow dance and buff up the normal one.

  19. #19
    Ok, the worst part of the entire thing is people who mix up the "bad" with the "class design problems", which are two completely different things.

    Most people screaming about "bad" are bad PvPers which were used to orange + Vial oneshot fest and now can't do a thing with their rogue.

    The problems of the class are much deeper than that. There is a very long list of what can be improved, but it's not an easy task and the first reason is that rogue mechanics actually work - the risk of breaking up everything is very high.

    PvP representaion is only a symptom. The reality is that rogues have seen a steady decline from LK, and

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    The reality is that rogues have seen a steady decline from LK, and
    From the numbers I've seen passed around we haven't been in decline all that time. We dropped in lk and held about the same low pop from there to pre 4.3 numbers went up some in 4.3 we know why. Then at 90 numbers dropped more than the pre 4.3 numbers and thats probably the only reason they are doing anything on this is lvl for us in 5.2.

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