Starting to understand the "Forced Dailies" argument

[Seranthor]

And if upgrades weren't strictly behind gated daily content, I'd actually have alternatives.

Sadly, its still not Blizzard's problem, its between you and your raid group.

[chrth]

The cap is actually 1800, 2200 is only for rbgs

I'm not saying doing PVP is the answer, but it's a viable path and one that usually doesn't take as long to cap compared to valor. But the main point of my response was to address the myth that PVP gear of the same ilvl is decidedly worse than PVE gear. It's no longer the case as of MoP.

[MordorFires]

Apparently my raid is having trouble with some of the DPS not pulling their weight.

I was questioned about one or two pieces of my gear, and asked why I didn't have Valor gear in those slots.

I responded "because I dislike doing dailies."

They responded by saying if I didn't do them, I could be cut.

Of course there are alternatives..
-Don't raid
-Find another raid

Neither of which appeal to me.

So I dare say that I'm being "forced" to do dailies.

I wouldn't join that guild. But here's the thing. You don't want to do dailies. You don't want to stop raiding. And you don't want to find a group that won't ask you to do dailies.

Might I ask, what do you want to do? Or do you seriously want Blizzard to change the game because you aren't willing to take one of the other routes available to you?

[WeaponXAnimosity]

Though Blizzard may be trying to steer away from the whole "I must complete X to get Y gear for raiding," they'll never shake off the fact that the game has been based off of that model since Vanilla. Since the player population is used to doing that, that's what the game is to them. Can't blame players who don't want to do dailies when grinding has been the tradition of WoW since launch.

[Attsey]

Agreed. This is a Guild requirement, not a game requirement. I would Google "how to get raid ready without doing dailies" and you will find a dozen sites to help you out. Sorry your guild is so strict, but this is not an issue.

Its a design issue. Blizzard knew this was going to happen, you need to stop being so naive.

[Nindoriel]

Apparently my raid is having trouble with some of the DPS not pulling their weight.

I was questioned about one or two pieces of my gear, and asked why I didn't have Valor gear in those slots.

I responded "because I dislike doing dailies."

They responded by saying if I didn't do them, I could be cut.

Of course there are alternatives..
-Don't raid
-Find another raid

Neither of which appeal to me.

So I dare say that I'm being "forced" to do dailies.

By your raid, but not by Blizzard.

[Daetur]

The thing is, there's only one other option which is RNG in LFR.

Crafting, PvP gear (Conquest gear can still be used to fill slots if you have really bad gear in those slots), Black Market AH, LFR, Sha of Anger, Holiday items, Heroic 5 man gear, Justice Gear... plenty of ways to get the gear necessary for normal mode MSV and HoF.

Your guild is the one "requiring" you to get that Valor gear. The content is perfectly reasonable to be completed without it-- the game doesn't require it.
If your raid is struggling with dps, it is NOT because of a gear issue, incidentally. It is a PERFORMANCE issue.

You only need to do 7 of the Pandaria dailies that give 2 Lesser Charms a day to get your 3 Elder Charms for the week, as well. That's really, really not many-- just doing Golden Lotus' first hub or two each day is all you need. It's not like you're "forced" to grind endless dailies to get the charms if you want them-- note that the game doesn't require them. It's 7 a day.

[Horseface]

"Neither of which appeal to me." it's your own fault to be in such guild, dont blame it on others, it's their guild and their rules. If u cant make a compromise of finding a new guild it's your problem. If it's very serious raiding guild well yeah maybe you have to do dailys then, but that's the sacrifice of being in a good guild, but I doubt it's a really good guild, coz u would prolly have character decked in epix if that was the case.

[Halicia]

If your raid is struggling with dps, it is NOT because of a gear issue, incidentally. It is a PERFORMANCE issue.

Obviously, but if he cant perform well enough in the gear he has, the Raidleader's being kind by saying "upgrade your gear before we have to replace you".

Its perfectly reasonable, imo, for those that are performing worse to have to 'work a little harder', even by having to do things they may not like, until their performance is up to the rest of the raid's.

[Daetur]

Obviously, but if he cant perform well enough in the gear he has, the Raidleader's being kind by saying "upgrade your gear before we have to replace you".

Its perfectly reasonable, imo, for those that are performing worse to have to 'work a little harder', even by having to do things they may not like, until their performance is up to the rest of the raid's.

Well, I agree with that.

I simply mean that another option for him would be, rather than being "forced" to do dailies, to work on improving his play and performance.

[Nindoriel]

Obviously, but if he cant perform well enough in the gear he has, the Raidleader's being kind by saying "upgrade your gear before we have to replace you".

Its perfectly reasonable, imo, for those that are performing worse to have to 'work a little harder', even by having to do things they may not like, until their performance is up to the rest of the raid's.

What would be the unkind way?

[Socialhealer]

And if upgrades weren't strictly behind gated daily content, I'd actually have alternatives.

what would these loots be behind then? slapping on a tabard and facerolling 5mans?

feel free to invent some new content thats a viable alternative that doesn't just completely ignore factions, nor must it require you to sit in org and the loot be given for you doing basically nothing.

[Lighto73]

Instead of using valor to buy gear, just use it to upgrade your current Valor/Heroic gear. The outcome will be the same in terms of ilvl value (unless you are still using a 450 ilvl or something piece of gear)

No dailies, and you still get your gear upgraded.

[Filth the Warlock]

Instead of using valor to buy gear, just use it to upgrade your current Valor/Heroic gear. The outcome will be the same in terms of ilvl value (unless you are still using a 450 ilvl or something piece of gear)

No dailies, and you still get your gear upgraded.

Only example I can come up with is Ring from reputation with Shieldwall, in which case you're wrong. There's only two alternatives to this (other than spirit), as a int/hit class, one is the upgraded PVP ring and the other is the HC ring from HOF.

It is better to buy that ring than to upgrade the ring from Golden Lotus, in the long run. Since the Golden Lotus ring can only be upgraded twice, and will at that point be at the same level as the unupgraded ring from Shieldwall, which as mentioned, still has two upgrades. So in a world of infinite valor points, not buying valor upgrades, such as this ring, would be a mistake.
There are cases of the opposite, such <all other reputation rewards>.

[RickJamesLich]

To be fair, do you think it's a good idea for your guild to keep you if they are suffering on dps? Or pick up a guy that's willing to get the gear so they can have a better shot at downing bosses? If one of the healers wasn't pulling their weight by getting upgrades outside of the raid, would you ask them to put in a bit more effort?

The thing with dailies is getting to honored and revered is pretty easy, you don't even have to do them daily. You can go them like 3 times a week and you'd still get the necessary rep fast.

[Skokeh]

Apparently my raid is having trouble with some of the DPS not pulling their weight.

I was questioned about one or two pieces of my gear, and asked why I didn't have Valor gear in those slots.

I responded "because I dislike doing dailies."

They responded by saying if I didn't do them, I could be cut.

Of course there are alternatives..
-Don't raid
-Find another raid

Neither of which appeal to me.

So I dare say that I'm being "forced" to do dailies.

You pay a subscription therefore YOU choose how you occupy your time. It's not Blizzards fault you feel forced to do dailies its yours, they've provided us with optional gameplay. You want an environment where you're not feeling forced? I suggest you find yourself a new guild who don't mind their members taking things easy.

Personally I don't mind dailies, they're not hard or particularly time consuming and they enable me to gear up characters faster.

[Xeraxis]

guilds wont let you use pvp gear for progression and pugs wont let you join with pvp gear either

If you have a PvP piece with a higher ilevel that outweighs a PvE piece in stats and your guild will not let you use it for progression then you don't have anything to worry about. You aren't in a real progression guild.

[Sarac]

guilds wont let you use pvp gear for progression and pugs wont let you join with pvp gear either

Some PvP slots are better than PvP if you haven't gotten far in HoF yet. Stats priority should be checked, not where it comes from.

[Mormolyce]

1) If you hate dailies so much get your VP from dungeons and scenarios. How is that different from every other tier of WoW?

2) I don't know what your progression is but my raid group cleared all of MSV the first week it opened with precisely no VP gear. And once you're raiding you have access to raid loot so VP hardly even matters (though VP upgrading is nice).