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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    If they have actually stated that, I will never give them a cent of my money.
    I might play it...
    But only after they drop the box.

    I am not handing them 60 dollars if they are just going to give me another 5 dollar "preferred" status 10 months later
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    If this is true, I just lost all respect for them that I might have had. Looking at the game, I was actually starting to think it was decent. If they have actually stated that, I will never give them a cent of my money.
    Sorry, I retract my statement. I misread the article, it was just an analyst's opinion which means nothing.

  3. #63
    Elemental Lord adam86shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    Remember "Path of the Titans", which eventually just became Prime, Major and Minor glyphs? How about that Throne of the Tides raid?

    Perhaps I'm not always waiting for the next great feature to come along because I'm having enough fun with the game as it is. If all people can do is complain about how this, that and this other thing aren't in the game, then maybe SWToR isn't the right game for you, and you should find one that has the things you're looking for.
    Just because Blizzard promised a few features that never flourished doesn't excuse Bioware. Besides for every failed promise Blizzard presented they returned with 3 decent new features. As for the OT it's all PR BS, too little too late

  4. #64
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Sorry, I retract my statement. I misread the article, it was just an analyst's opinion which means nothing.
    Oh ok, whew. I thought the vestiges of honorable business practices for our little niche of capitalism was going bye bye.

    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Just because Blizzard promised a few features that never flourished doesn't excuse Bioware. Besides for every failed promise Blizzard presented they returned with 3 decent new features. As for the OT it's all PR BS, too little too late
    Not to mention that they follow up with pretty good explanations why features weren't included or went another direction. As much as people want to cry BS, they point to systems just not working/not being good enough so they go another way. We can say it's lies all we want, but clearly the features they do deliver pack in the people.

    SWTOR gives no reason for the changes, or even a modicum of explanation. In fact some changes they just spring on people, hoping they don't notice until it's too late. Have to subscribe at launch of F2P to receive cartel coins sond familiar? I'm still angry about that. Cathar being a Cartel Market item only? No explanation, but added a threat that no future races would be made unless people buy it.

    Blizzard doesn't say they aren't going to do a feature anymore, then turn around and hold the feature for cash ransom.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Just because Blizzard promised a few features that never flourished doesn't excuse Bioware. Besides for every failed promise Blizzard presented they returned with 3 decent new features. As for the OT it's all PR BS, too little too late
    I'm not excusing BioWare in any way. Just reminding people that they are not the first company to make exaggerated claims about what they're going to deliver, or change how a new feature will be implemented.

    And while it's a little lackluster for an expansion to only increase the level cap by 5 and add one new planet, it's still only $10. It's not a huge amount of content, and the price reflects that.

    Also, even if they do add new races, it's not like the game starts off any differently, and there won't be any difference between a Cathar character and any other when it comes to actually playing the game. Why all the fuss?

  6. #66
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Says you're not excusing BiowarEA
    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    I'm not excusing BioWare in any way.
    Follows by excusing BiowarEA
    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    it's still only $10
    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    Also, even if they do add new races, it's not like the game starts off any differently, and there won't be any difference between a Cathar character and any other when it comes to actually playing the game. Why all the fuss?

  7. #67
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Says you're not excusing BiowarEA

    Follows by excusing BiowarEA
    You are quoting him out of context and you know it.

  8. #68
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    You are quoting him out of context and you know it.
    I could have quoted the entire post. It's almost the entire post as is. He says he's not excusing the company, then goes on to say it's not a big deal and why is everyone so upset about what they're are doing? Newsflash: This is excusing the company.

    "So yeah, I mean, so he killed some people...but they were bad people, so it's not really a terrible thing right?"
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2013-01-03 at 06:29 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Says you're not excusing BiowarEA

    Follows by excusing BiowarEA
    I'm sure that in your mind, BioWare should release an expansion that adds another 50 levels, 15 planets, 12 Flashpoints, 6 Operations, 4 Warzones, 8 new playable races (Cathar, Wookiee, Jawa, Hutt, Trandoshan, Gand, Houk and Talz), and the ability to have a relationship with any companion, even droids... all for free! Anything less is just not enough!

    Honestly, save yourself the grief and just enjoy the game for what it is, not for what it might be at some point (or not).

    "All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing."

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 01:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I could have quoted the entire post. It's almost the entire post as is. He says he's not excusing the company, then goes on to say it's not a big deal and why is everyone so upset about what they're are doing? Newsflash: This is excusing the company.

    "So yeah, I mean, so he killed some people...but they were bad people, so it's not really a terrible thing right?"
    Comparing not releasing video game features you'd like to see to murder, and using portmanteaus like "BiowarEA"? Yeah, you're really taking a rational position on all this.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    I'm sure that in your mind, BioWare should release an expansion that adds another 50 levels, 15 planets, 12 Flashpoints, 6 Operations, 4 Warzones, 8 new playable races (Cathar, Wookiee, Jawa, Hutt, Trandoshan, Gand, Houk and Talz), and the ability to have a relationship with any companion, even droids... all for free! Anything less is just not enough!

    Honestly, save yourself the grief and just enjoy the game for what it is, not for what it might be at some point (or not).

    "All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing."
    Honestly, if they're not introducing anything new, what are they charging for? The new planet? A level increase that is unnecessary? Quite frankly, I'm going to give my opinion on why this is NOT an expansion. The game is centered around a Class Story. Until they continue with Chapter 4 of your Class Story, it can not be considered an expansion. The Black Hole and Section X have been giving Faction stories. Why aren't they charging subscribers for that? Not only that, but usually with expansions, it begins a new story or a new piece of the story. It starts a new chapter. Considering the Dread Masters are still alive, and very much the background of every Operation outside of Eternity Vault, where is the closure on that chapter? Instead we raise a the level cap and continue with the same story? And let's not forget, according to the patch leaks (which turned out to be spot on) this new planet was supposed to be Varl and this "expansion" was supposed to, originally, be 1.4. In most games, if you're patching after an expansion, you raise the first number, making it 2.1 or 2.0. So, based on these factors, we can deduce a couple of things. First, this is the most unconventional expansion ever, and not necessarily in a good way. And second, this content was originally planned as merely being patch content for subscribers. So, tell me, why is it that subscribers are being forced to pay for this?

  11. #71
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    *snip*Comparing not releasing video game features you'd like to see to murder, and using portmanteaus like "BiowarEA"? Yeah, you're really taking a rational position on all this.
    All of your intial embellishments and assumptions (which are rude and uninformed) aside, you also clearly don't know what is serious or rational in the first place.

    Obviously I somehow meant to link murder to video game content. I mean clearly that's what I was doing. Clearly. I wasn't using a similar syntax and clause construction to show how it was excusing the company...that would make too much sense to be what I was actually doing!

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    WORDS
    That's why I call it DLC rather than an expansion. It's much closer to the DLC you see in games like DCUO or the Adventure Packs (pre-DLC days) you saw with EQ1/2, than it is to any expansion.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    That's why I call it DLC rather than an expansion. It's much closer to the DLC you see in games like DCUO or the Adventure Packs (pre-DLC days) you saw with EQ1/2, than it is to any expansion.
    I agree with that. It feels far more like a DLC in other games than an expansion. I mean maybe they are holding back something that will blow it all out of the water and make it feel like an expansion... but you can only form opinions based on facts you are given* and with the info given so far it does not.

    *I realize some people will base opinions on anything at all... but I was referring to logical people not the other people

  14. #74
    This whole "soon" crap makes me hate F2P even more, you know a lot of these things were pushed back just because Bioware gave up and went F2P.

    Now any of these things coming "soon" are going to be continually slow because they keep making crap for the cartel market.

    Just goes to show when a game goes F2P quality, quantity and just overall devotion goes down. It's all because people will line up for crap then actually demand content. People spending $100 or more in the cartel market are not helping the game move on it's just encouraging them to make more crap and validating them on their laziness to bring in these other features that were supposed to be free (Makeb and I can pretty much confidently say they will make people pay for Cathar)

    When people encourage pidly crap that's what they will make and all the while content will suffer.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    Just goes to show when a game goes F2P quality, quantity and just overall devotion goes down.
    Erm, not really? Aion still receives updates of the same quality at the same rate as before, DCUO is putting out content patches of similar size at roughly the same rate as before, there's no indication that TSW will slow down content or reduce its quality, CO is receiving pretty good updates at a similar rate as before, Fallen Earth is similarly getting content updates as large, if not larger at roughly the same rate as before.

    What games are you talking about? SWTOR wasn't releasing shit for content before the transition anyways, so how is this a change at all? Yes, it's a total money-grab and it's bad behavior, but SWTOR's transition is far from indicative of f2p transitions on the whole. It's rather unique in that it's uniquely shitty.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Honestly, if they're not introducing anything new, what are they charging for? The new planet? A level increase that is unnecessary? Quite frankly, I'm going to give my opinion on why this is NOT an expansion. The game is centered around a Class Story. Until they continue with Chapter 4 of your Class Story, it can not be considered an expansion. The Black Hole and Section X have been giving Faction stories. Why aren't they charging subscribers for that? Not only that, but usually with expansions, it begins a new story or a new piece of the story. It starts a new chapter. Considering the Dread Masters are still alive, and very much the background of every Operation outside of Eternity Vault, where is the closure on that chapter? Instead we raise a the level cap and continue with the same story? And let's not forget, according to the patch leaks (which turned out to be spot on) this new planet was supposed to be Varl and this "expansion" was supposed to, originally, be 1.4. In most games, if you're patching after an expansion, you raise the first number, making it 2.1 or 2.0. So, based on these factors, we can deduce a couple of things. First, this is the most unconventional expansion ever, and not necessarily in a good way. And second, this content was originally planned as merely being patch content for subscribers. So, tell me, why is it that subscribers are being forced to pay for this?
    I see makeb as pretty much the equivelent of WoWs Isle of Quel'Danas, just slightly bigger and it involves levels.

    As a free update it would of been amazing as an "expansion" and even a DLC, it seems fairly lackluster.

    When I first heard about makeb I was starting to get bored of the game but when they announced it I was like "Now We're talking!" a free level cap raise, a whole new planet and a continuation of my class story!

    Then it kinda fell off the face of the earth and I started hearing rumors about F2P. Then the darkness came, it swallowed up all their plans, whittled them down and slapped a price tag on all of it. I was sad, the game I thought was going places seemed to die in one fell swoop. I unsubbed. I'm now checking over the corpse to see if there is any life/light left. My search is not going well.

    RIP the original swtor. Now all we have left is this F2P mess.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Honestly, if they're not introducing anything new, what are they charging for? The new planet? A level increase that is unnecessary?
    They're not introducing anything new? Another tier of talents and more abilities? And the level increase is "necessary" because BioWare has decided that the maximum level should be increased. I mean, if you're going to ask that question, why is any level increase ever necessary? We couldn't have killed Deathwing at level 60?

    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    First, this is the most unconventional expansion ever, and not necessarily in a good way. And second, this content was originally planned as merely being patch content for subscribers. So, tell me, why is it that subscribers are being forced to pay for this?
    Obviously the project plan has changed from what it was in early 2012 to what it is now. Honestly it would've been cool for them to offer this stuff for free, but I don't have a huge bee in my bonnet about paying $10 for stuff I want to be a part of. If it's not worth it to you, don't pay for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    All of your intial embellishments and assumptions (which are rude and uninformed) aside, you also clearly don't know what is serious or rational in the first place.

    Obviously I somehow meant to link murder to video game content. I mean clearly that's what I was doing. Clearly. I wasn't using a similar syntax and clause construction to show how it was excusing the company...that would make too much sense to be what I was actually doing!
    Your over the top example demonstrates you're taking this way too seriously.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Erm, not really? Aion still receives updates of the same quality at the same rate as before, DCUO is putting out content patches of similar size at roughly the same rate as before, there's no indication that TSW will slow down content or reduce its quality, CO is receiving pretty good updates at a similar rate as before, Fallen Earth is similarly getting content updates as large, if not larger at roughly the same rate as before.

    What games are you talking about? SWTOR wasn't releasing shit for content before the transition anyways, so how is this a change at all? Yes, it's a total money-grab and it's bad behavior, but SWTOR's transition is far from indicative of f2p transitions on the whole. It's rather unique in that it's uniquely shitty.
    I've played DCOU, perfect world, Wizard 101, and a few others briefly. F2P games are a cesspool with no filter. Constantly being locked out of things at every turn. Swtor is annoying because the price tag slaps you in the face every moment it can, at least other games it can be avoided.

    F2P games just don;t have the drive to create content (that isn't small and has a rediculous price on everything) that subbed games do. Subbed games have to work to keep everyone playing. F2P games and especially ones with cas shops (i.e. most) only have to worry about satisfying thier cash cows while throwing scraps to anything else, and that usually means awful cosmetic items or overprced reskins and other such junk.

  19. #79
    We should stop going round and round in circles on this. It bothers some people, and it doesn't bother others. No one seems to be sway-able to the other point of view so it's sort of pointless to keep beating the poor horse.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    Constantly being locked out of things at every turn.
    In some freemium games, yes. But games like Aion (US version) lock you out of nothing. Games like DCUO lock out out of bits of the game, but the pricing structure is very reasonable (that's probably the best made freemium model on the market atm)

    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    F2P games just don;t have the drive to create content (that isn't small and has a rediculous price on everything) that subbed games do. Subbed games have to work to keep everyone playing. F2P games and especially ones with cas shops (i.e. most) only have to worry about satisfying thier cash cows while throwing scraps to anything else, and that usually means awful cosmetic items or overprced reskins and other such junk.
    Bolded the part that's patently false. If the F2P game isn't creating content for players, why would the players stick around? Nobody wants to play a stagnant game, so F2P games need to create content to keep players interested and engaged. Without that, the players will leave, taking their money with them, and re-engaging ex-players is a far more difficult task than maintaining them.

    Seriously, this notion that F2P games don't need to create actual content, and can get away with only making cash shop items is so patently false and ludicrous that I can't believe people actually believe that nonsense.

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