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  1. #81
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    Your over the top example demonstrates you're taking this way too seriously.
    It's understandable you don't want to admit to being a hypocrite. None of us likes eating crow. Sorry, but the only thing I take seriously in your posts is the fact that you say you aren't going to do something and then proceed to do it...then you defend yourself like a rabid badger in a corner.

    I'm not attacking you, it's ok to calm down. It's ok if you want to defend the company. I don't need or want to convince you that you are wrong, I am just expressing my opinion on the issue. You are free to your own beliefs. I won't however stand idly by while you proclaim a statement of impartiality and then do exactly what you said you wouldn't. No thank you.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post

    Seriously, this notion that F2P games don't need to create actual content, and can get away with only making cash shop items is so patently false and ludicrous that I can't believe people actually believe that nonsense.
    The defense and love of this model is what I find to be nonsense. The fact that you don't see how the "Freemium model" has made swtor worse is amazing. Things being pushed back, half-assed holidays/events, the sheer number of things locked out to free players when appearently they are making lots of money from a few weird people.

    Better for the company? Yea probably, there are always suckers out there. Better for the players as a whole, not even slightly (except for those cash shop junkies who like to buy nothing)

    It might be better for games that didn't start out with a sub because maybe they believe that their work is needed, but for people like Bioware it seems they just found easy street and they are taking it and not looking back. Even since WoW, added the PetStore I've seen a bunch of things slip, they're likley not all related but a few things seem to fit the profile (no more anniversary pets)

    Like Arlee said though this is going nowhere, you are not going to convince me F2P or Freemium models are any good.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    They're not introducing anything new? Another tier of talents and more abilities? And the level increase is "necessary" because BioWare has decided that the maximum level should be increased. I mean, if you're going to ask that question, why is any level increase ever necessary? We couldn't have killed Deathwing at level 60?
    Quite frankly, yes, we could have killed Deathwing at 60. To be honest, there doesn't HAVE to be levels. Levels are arbitrary numbers created to appease the "achievement" gene in people. But when I say unnecessary, I mean what I said in the rest of the paragraph. There has been no chapter closing.

    As for "new abilities" and "tiers of talents".....that is just more of the same. It's not "new". What I mean by "new" is something that changes the game. This expansion has no game-changer, from what we've seen. It's just more buttons to push, leaving other buttons to disregard. If you want to classify that as "new", by all means. But, to me, something "new" means something that is slightly different from what I've been doing. Or at least something that adds to what I've been doing. Some kind of depth. From what we've seen, there's no depth here.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    Obviously the project plan has changed from what it was in early 2012 to what it is now. Honestly it would've been cool for them to offer this stuff for free, but I don't have a huge bee in my bonnet about paying $10 for stuff I want to be a part of. If it's not worth it to you, don't pay for it.
    The plan may have changed, but the fact that this was supposed to be no more than a content patch doesn't.

  4. #84
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    The defense and love of this model is what I find to be nonsense. The fact that you don't see how the "Freemium model" has made swtor worse is amazing. Things being pushed back, half-assed holidays/events, the sheer number of things locked out to free players when appearently they are making lots of money from a few weird people.
    *snip*
    Like Arlee said though this is going nowhere, you are not going to convince me F2P or Freemium models are any good.
    He's not specifically talking about SWTOR though. He's talking about the model. There are plenty of games that have Cash Shops that don't make lower quality games. Whether you like the game or not is personal opinion. He doesn't need to convince you, it's just a fact that there is no causality present for the subject as a whole.

    Is it more likely to happen? Possibly. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 03:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    The plan may have changed, but the fact that this was supposed to be no more than a content patch doesn't.
    Or that it was supposed to be free for subscribers...but I wouldn't expect people to actually include relevant information that disproves their ideas.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    Like Arlee said though this is going nowhere, you are not going to convince me F2P or Freemium models are any good.
    I don't know if that's true. TOR doesn't have a great F2P model, but they aren't indicative of the genre as a whole. You should take a look at other Freemium models out there.

  6. #86
    Fine, I give BioWare the benefit of the doubt because they are releasing a new addition to a video game, and compared to what other companies have released as expansions in the past, it seems like a good deal. I'm not offended by the realization that they were originally going to offer this for free, but somewhere along the way they decided to charge for it. There may be things that I think should be put in the game, but I'm not going to throw a hissy fit they aren't added immediately, or ever. If I wasn't interested in what they were releasing, I wouldn't buy it, nor would I continue to subscribe.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    The defense and love of this model is what I find to be nonsense. The fact that you don't see how the "Freemium model" has made swtor worse is amazing. Things being pushed back, half-assed holidays/events, the sheer number of things locked out to free players when appearently they are making lots of money from a few weird people.
    I'm defending the F2P model on the whole, not specifically SWTOR's. If you read my earlier post (I'm assuming you did since you responded to it), you'd know I was in no way defending SWTOR's implementation of the freemium model. Here, let me remind you what I said, bolded the parts that are especially relevant.

    SWTOR wasn't releasing shit for content before the transition anyways, so how is this a change at all? Yes, it's a total money-grab and it's bad behavior, but SWTOR's transition is far from indicative of f2p transitions on the whole. It's rather unique in that it's uniquely shitty.
    Again, I think SWTOR has a terrible model, and BioWare has handled the transition terribly. I think they've handled the entire game terribly too. I don't hate the game, I'm just super disappointed in it as I see so much more potential in it and it's being held back by a group of developers who seem unable to do their damn jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    Better for the company? Yea probably, there are always suckers out there. Better for the players as a whole, not even slightly (except for those cash shop junkies who like to buy nothing)
    It's surely better than the games closing down or ending up in the same sad state of Warhammer. For reference, Warhammer has 2 servers, 1 EU and 1 US, both of which are basically empty. The game receives little to no updates. Same thing with Vanguard before it went F2P. It got bug fixes for a bit then remained stagnate for years. Now that it's freemium, it's got a development team again and is beginning to pump out content.

    How is Warhammers situation any better for players than Vanguards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    It might be better for games that didn't start out with a sub because maybe they believe that their work is needed, but for people like Bioware it seems they just found easy street and they are taking it and not looking back.
    Erm, again, I said I think the current situation is an extension of BioWares inability to deliver on pretty much anything in a reasonable timeframe, regardless of business model. This isn't a new issue, it existed well before the transition was announced, so you can't blame these woes on the new business model (though it hasn't helped).

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    It's just more buttons to push, leaving other buttons to disregard.
    This sounds exactly like every expansion I've been a part of.

    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    But, to me, something "new" means something that is slightly different from what I've been doing. Or at least something that adds to what I've been doing. Some kind of depth. From what we've seen, there's no depth here.
    To be fair, has BioWare even released what the new talents are? What abilities each class will gain over the next 5 levels? What mechanics will be used for boss fights in the new Flashpoints and Operations? You only presume a lack of depth because you lack the information to know for sure.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    To be fair, has BioWare even released what the new talents are? What abilities each class will gain over the next 5 levels? What mechanics will be used for boss fights in the new Flashpoints and Operations? You only presume a lack of depth because you lack the information to know for sure.
    No they haven't released anymore info about it yet. I was thinking they might be holding something big they wanted to release before the Jan. 7th preorder deadline... but it's not looking so good on that front.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    No they haven't released anymore info about it yet. I was thinking they might be holding something big they wanted to release before the Jan. 7th preorder deadline... but it's not looking so good on that front.
    You would think they would.

    It would actually be a smart move. Right now they are only relying on some extremely vague info and a lot of blind faith. It's hard to believe people are pre-ordering with how little we know. Then again like I've stated before some people just like to burn money without thinking.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Originally Posted by SWTOR

    Topic #4: Same Gender Romance: Any news on this front would be great… Answer: First of all, I want to apologize that this is taking so long to get in the game. I realize that we promised SGR to you guys and that many of you believed that this would be with a companion character. Unfortunately, this will take a lot more work than we realized at the time and it (like some other pieces of content we talked about earlier in the year) has been delayed as we focused on the changes required to take the game Free-to-Play. As we have said in the past, allowing same gender romance is something we are very supportive of.

    Secondly, I want to reveal today that we are adding SGR with some NPCs on Makeb and do intend on pursuing more SGR options in the future. More details to come!
    Wait, didn't they tell something along the lines of "texts already written, recordings done" for this feature prior to release? How come it's been reduced to some non-companions npcs on some planet, when it was basically done?

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    No they haven't released anymore info about it yet. I was thinking they might be holding something big they wanted to release before the Jan. 7th preorder deadline... but it's not looking so good on that front.
    There's still 4 days left. Given that it feels like RotHC will be released in the late spring, I bet they'll either extend the pre-order period another month, or have at least one promotion where the pre-order price is $10 again.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    This sounds exactly like every expansion I've been a part of.
    I'm kind of wondering how many MMO expansions you've been a part of. For every expansions I've been a part of, they seem to always add something new. Something different from the same old, same old.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    To be fair, has BioWare even released what the new talents are? What abilities each class will gain over the next 5 levels? What mechanics will be used for boss fights in the new Flashpoints and Operations? You only presume a lack of depth because you lack the information to know for sure.
    I'm allowed to formulate an opinion on what I've seen so far, which is exactly what I've done. I'm not making predictions. I can presume lack of depth because they've given me no reason to assume otherwise.

  14. #94
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    I'm kind of wondering how many MMO expansions you've been a part of. For every expansions I've been a part of, they seem to always add something new. Something different from the same old, same old.



    I'm allowed to formulate an opinion on what I've seen so far, which is exactly what I've done. I'm not making predictions. I can presume lack of depth because they've given me no reason to assume otherwise.

    New planet, new talents, new levels, what these don't count?


    this is pretty much the same for any exp pack. New area, new levels, new talents.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by stormgust View Post
    Wait, didn't they tell something along the lines of "texts already written, recordings done" for this feature prior to release? How come it's been reduced to some non-companions npcs on some planet, when it was basically done?
    I don't recall them ever saying that it was almost done. I do know they said it was something important and that they wanted to make sure when they implemented it, they did it right. But I don't remember anything about it being almost done.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    There's still 4 days left. Given that it feels like RotHC will be released in the late spring, I bet they'll either extend the pre-order period another month, or have at least one promotion where the pre-order price is $10 again.
    Well, they honestly RARELY ever announce anything on the weekends so really there is only one day left (I prob shouldn't discount today since they sometimes announce things at 5pm est). Plus my thinking was that they would want to announce something big about it to drum up excitement and more sales... so I would think they would want to do that before the weekend.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    I'm kind of wondering how many MMO expansions you've been a part of. For every expansions I've been a part of, they seem to always add something new. Something different from the same old, same old.
    So far, it's been 3 (on the same game). I don't remember any of them being a radical departure from what the previous iteration of the game was.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by stormgust View Post
    Wait, didn't they tell something along the lines of "texts already written, recordings done" for this feature prior to release? How come it's been reduced to some non-companions npcs on some planet, when it was basically done?
    Ea has a thing about homosexuality, its fine if two girls do it, but something happends if two guys do it

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Well, they honestly RARELY ever announce anything on the weekends so really there is only one day left (I prob shouldn't discount today since they sometimes announce things at 5pm est). Plus my thinking was that they would want to announce something big about it to drum up excitement and more sales... so I would think they would want to do that before the weekend.
    Well, they've already extended the date of when you could resub and get all the cartel coins you earned by about 2 months, so far. I mean, I'm not entirely optimistic that we will get new information by the 7th, but anything's possible.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Haajib View Post
    Ea has a thing about homosexuality, its fine if two girls do it, but something happends if two guys do it
    Really? There were romances between two men in both DA2 and ME3 so...I'm confused...

  20. #100
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    You would think they would.

    It would actually be a smart move. Right now they are only relying on some extremely vague info and a lot of blind faith. It's hard to believe people are pre-ordering with how little we know. Then again like I've stated before some people just like to burn money without thinking.
    I'd imagine a lot of the people who pre-ordered are like me. We subscribe and believe the game to be worth $15 a month. $10 for Makeb is an easy 'gamble' for us as we're not moaning about the game 24/7. I'd be worried if you pre-ordered without knowing more as you're convinced that the game isn't currently worth $15 a month. You shouldn't pre-order until you know more. However there are lots of us who don't share your personal view of the game and have happily pre-ordered based on the little we know about Makeb.

    Neither group is wrong and please don't presume that no thought went into pre-ordering just because you can't/won't pre-order yourself. Thanks.

    Legend:

    Us = People currently subscribed who believe the game to be worth $15 a month.
    You = People who are not subscribed and do not believe the game to be worth $15 a month.
    Last edited by Jamos77; 2013-01-03 at 09:38 PM.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

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