Winning against undergeared people is not rewarding

[Deleted]

[...] This is a game and genre about grinding for gear, be it PVE or PVP.

MMORPG is not necessarily about grinding. GW2 is a MMO, and it isn't about grinding. The biggest grind is a legendary, but its only marginal better than "epic". There's no kind of min-maxing where every caster is expected to have it like DTR. (Unfortunately they also added grinds lately due to the mentality from WoW and initial hype passing by). But for PvP, no grind. Even level is equalized.

[...] but I don't think normalization would be fun, better, or good in any way.

Fair enough, but be aware the grind and lack of gear normalization is because it fits in the way the game works: business-wise, because of the sub, and quality-wise because it allows someone who's mediocre and worked hard via grinds to pwn people who just came along (or are on alts).

I was going to try out GW2 until I heard about the gear normalization. I feel this system would only benefit some people, those dubbed "casuals" because they wouldn't need to grind. Ironically, with less time played I think they would be less skilled, which would still result in a loss.

Au contraire, it benefits all.

1) The non-casuals benefit from it: they are being challenged by skill only since gear is taken out of the equation. Pro players love being challenged, and don't want to "lol" some noobs. It is boring to them, so yes they cannot nerf themselves (but they weren't doing that in WoW either) but the skill cap is also higher (see point #3)
2) The casuals benefit from it: when they play they know they're losing on skill, and skill alone. They're not losing because Bob doesn't have a job and wants to feel c00l in WoW to pwn some people who just got home from work and wanna play a BG on their monday evening while Bob has been grinding BGs the whole afternoon on his 4th alt (his other 3 being full mag). If they lose, they know they can improve their gameplay. It is still possible for Bob the no-lifer to win from the casuals, but by practice (skill) only; not outgearing.
3) You are actually correct!! There is only one group who will NOT benefit from the gear normalization: the baddies. Why? Because they won't be able to grind gear, become better, and win the game. They'll lose, and keep losing, become frustrated, and eventually quit. It is a good thing because it keeps quality high. This is also why the quality in BGs is low and why there are lots of bad players in WoW who have no clue. WoW gives these people a home by allowing them to play the grind game to become competitive!

If you are currently in WoW a mediocre player you will not fall in group #3! You will fall in either group #2 or group #1 and the reason why group #1 gets better, better, better is at the very least because of more practice (likely also better informed, playing with friends on vchat, etc). If you are a casual player then the more other casuals, the more equal your playing field therefore you'll have more fun.

Also in WoW I would equate the psychology with growing up to an adult then putting the children in place. But do you really need that once you are grown up even more? No, you want an equal playing field. You can take people on quality instead of cheating.

People with altitis will find a game like GW2 heaven. Wanna PvP? Make a level 1, get the weapon skills, buy the white weapon from the vendor, get a talent tree, and off you go!!

Change for the sake of "progressing" is rarely a good idea. Why don't we see how well those games with gear normalization are doing compared to WoW.

Which games? Are you implying they're not doing well?

[Lightfist]

Why should the ppl that actually has farmed for gear at the start of the season lose to someone that just started? Makes no sense. I would be pissed if someone with blues could beat me out of pure skill. Ofc skill has ALOT to say, timing stuns, silences etc.

But if i was playing a warrior with full bis pvp gear, and a random warrior in blues could beat me just because he was either abit better cordinating stuns and stuff i would stop pvping........ I feel the ppl that was earli out getting bis gear should have an advantage. And like Bazookaberit said, You can catch up in the middle of a season easy. Get increased rating for bigger cap and in a few weeks, you have EPIX!

So, you'd be mad because someone who's better than you - not marginally, just all around better than you - beat you in inferior gear?

I'm afraid I have nothing to say to you that wouldn't result in a ban.

[Deleted]

So, you'd be mad because someone who's better than you - not marginally, just all around better than you - beat you in inferior gear?

I'm afraid I have nothing to say to you that wouldn't result in a ban.

That's the whole WoW mentality you summed up, what it boils down to. Its an entire culture with literally a social class system. You can work your way up by working (grinding), skill (learning), or both.

[Naoto]

You guys are just shit, I've been doing bg's for years and have had to gear up god knows how many characters for PVP and sure gear helps but I can easily beat full malevolent people in dreadful gear so as I said, you guys are just shit and should stick to PVE if you find PVP this hard.

Saying people should have the same gear is so retarded as well, why should some scrub have equal gear to someone who PVP's for years? how can you justify that bollocks it's like me saying whenever I enter a raid I should be given the exact same gear these raiders took months to farm, get my drift?

WOW is a simple game most people can't grasp, the concept itself is really fucking simple guys and it goes a little something like this:

If you want gear, earn it.

It's that simple, remember this or stick to PVE.

[Tyrean]

Honestly the problem with gear in pvp is actually 5 man dungeons, LFR and raiding. Blizzard did a good thing by making resilience 40% baseline to allow people without PvP gear to not die instantly to geared people. Then in order to make sure that PvP players would for sure not want to use PvE items and that PvE players would not want to feel the need to use PvP items they implemented PvP power and basically undid the baseline resilience.

The real fix for PvP gear problems is to simply disable PvE gear in arena/RBG/BG/FFA arenas, disable PvP gear in 5 mans, LFR, Raids. World is open and anything goes there. Problem solved.

[Darsithis]

This reason alone is why I hate PvP in general.

When joining Battlegrounds/Arena your gear should be normalized. Wins should be based on tactics/skill and not gear. It's simple mathematics why the current system fails.

PvP should be something fun you want to do, not something you know you can't win at based on gear.

What would be the point of getting and upgrading gear if it all just gets downgraded anyway?

Don't get me wrong, I find little satisfaction in crushing undergeared PvP'ers, and I'm not even in full malevolent. Likewise, I don't like losing to people solely because their gear is a cut above mine so it's nearly impossible to win. On the flip side, though, I do get a kick out of winning against someone with clearly better gear than my own.

But I don't believe normalizing gear is the answer.

[Deleted]

You guys are just shit, I've been doing bg's for years and have had to gear up god knows how many characters for PVP and sure gear helps but I can easily beat full malevolent people in dreadful gear so as I said, you guys are just shit and should stick to PVE if you find PVP this hard.

1) They're very bad (bots in particular are easy to kill).
2) But if they were equally to your skill then there is no way you could beat them.
3) Because your class is good against them.
4) Else you have no chance no matter how good you think you are.

Which raises the question why stick to WoW PvP if you want quality PvP without grinds theres tons of games who don't have it:

1) Scrabble. Yes, Scrabble. It has no grinds.
2) Chess. You got that right.
3) CoD. From Activision yep.
4) GW2. Grindless PvP indeed.

If we want social unequal games where you have to "work" (read put time or money into the game) then we got games like

1) WoW
2) MtG
3) ...

Instead of wasting time doing the initial grind (which many regular PvP players do not experience) why not play a game where the leveling field is equal?

I compare WoW to some kind of secret fraternity where you first have to do macabre stuff before you actually joined the club on equal ground. If I want that unequal stuff I will take a job at McDs and work myself up. If I want to have quickly 30 min of my time in a completely fair fight (without having to do grinds) I will play a game like Scrabble, Chesss, CoD, or GW2. The only thing which allows me to beat others there, and them me, is skill and I can fairly improve this by playing the game more, do research, etc. The gear grind is also nothing but some kind of investment to keep you play. Yes, people are right about this, once you got your full mal set its a waste to not use it.

Saying people should have the same gear is so retarded as well, why should some scrub have equal gear to someone who PVP's for years?

Because you can beat the scrub on equal grounds. The scrub will actually NOT enjoy any PvP system without a ladder because he will lose all the time. That is why there are far less scrubs in those games.

how can you justify that bollocks it's like me saying whenever I enter a raid I should be given the exact same gear these raiders took months to farm, get my drift?

Not the same, because you are not fighting directly other players; you're playing against the computer.

If you want gear, earn it.

I'd rather just read a book or play one of the games I mentioned above. Those are worth my time. Grinds not, they're made for mindless bots, drones. Literally. That's why bots do PvP. Because a kid who earns 15 USD/hour is better off paying for such than play the grinds themselves.

It's that simple, remember this or stick to PVE.

PvE has the grind even more, but in PvE you play against a computer. Computers don't have to grind. There's a competive factor but people don't take it serious.

[Shaderas]

But I don't believe normalizing gear is the answer.

If they were doing something tournament style, than I could definitely see normalizing gear. But as it stands, I dont think they would do it. Although, I do believe they should take steps to not make the grind to catch up not too horrific.

Off-topic, do you change your avatar or does it change by itself? Some days it seems angry, today it's carrying a balloon?

[Naoto]

1 - Not really, anyone capping every week since the start of the season will be full male which also includes your average BG scrubs that barely bind, can't cc and keyboard turn etc so full male gear doesn't mean they are skilled, it just means they cap every week.

2 - And that's the way it should be, let's compare it to PVE as usual, you can't compete in full blues against someone in full epics on an equal skill level so why do people want this for PVP? this is an RPG game and gear always matters in them, it has done for god knows how many years and guess what, it will forever and when you take this element out of an RPG it no longer becomes an RPG, if people want an equal playing field then an RPG isn't for them.

3 - Not really, as I said someone in full epic PVP gear doesn't mean they are 2k players and I've been doing bg's long enough to know how to play them.

4 - You always have a chance but how big that chance is obviously depends on things, these people asking for equal gear probably wouldn't turn into 2.5k players because of this they will most likely still end up being shit because as I said, having no skill yet full male gear doesn't make you good and as I also said, I've farmed bg's for years and geared countless toons yet still managed to get kills but your average bg hero doesn't know fuck all about PVP, trust me I heal these people every god damn day so I know how they roll, most of them don't even know what cc is or can't be arsed doing it so whether they are in full green gear or full epic gear they will be shit regardless.

I also love how people act like gearing a toon takes months, nearing the end of Cata you should've capped your jp/honor to 4k on every toon just like I did meaning you can buy a helm and ring for example then convert the justice to honor and buy another 2250 piece and have almost enough for a smaller piece, you can get 3-4 items just this way alone then doing bg's in a level 25 or so guild isn't exactly slow, my hunter is geared yet I barely played it and my mage was geared in 1 day over the AV CTA which again, if you know AV/IOC CTA is coming up that's when you say fuck it, I'm going to level my toon and take advantage of this.

Honestly man, Blizzard made gearing up for PVP 99% easy as fuck and the 1% that is hard is getting a god damn weapon, you buy/craft the contender set then start farming bg's and in a few days you are fully geared, how exactly can this be made any easier? wait I have an idea, soon as we ding 90 I reckon Blizzard should give us 50k honor so we can instantly buy every piece of gear within seconds then let us pick and choose what weapons we want from heroics, after all getting gear is so hard right?

If you'd rather just read a book then to be fair here, you're the type of clueless tool that has made WOW a worse game over the years, the type of guy who wants everything for free and all that shit but I'm sorry to say it ain't gonna happen, so maybe you should stick to scrabble after all.

And sure PVE has an even worse grind but atleast then those nasty dragons won't hurt you as much as someone in better gear plus you have other people carrying you, if everyone else in that bg had to grind for that gear why should you be any different? as I said, if you want gear go and earn it.

Ok so your point is GW2 isn't a game based on grinding, now let me ask how well that's working out for them? surely if you'd rather play a game with less grind you'd be playing GW2 right now and not WOW?

On the plus side, gearing has never been any easier so if your life is so important that you can't spend a few hours farming bg's for honor yet for some bizarre reason still want gear for bg's (logic?) then you can now pay someone else to do it for you or do what it seems 80% of "casual" scrubs do and use a bot, think back to years ago when you had to grind YOURSELF without guild perks and NO baseline res yet people still fucking complain?

Even more advice, you can do bg's with guildies/friends so there are less bots on your side and more people helping or you can add me to real ID and since I'm such a nice guy (and you're on alliance EU) I'll heal you in your quest for honor so you can die less and go to bed at night happy! want more advice?

Or, if you hate botting you can always join a bg and find a nice safe spot to leach while you either play another toon on a second account or watch something on your pc/tv but be sure to move every few mins and make sure you don't get the inactive debuff, here is another way to gear.

Now, how many more ways to gear do people want? don't worry though, I still believe Blizzard bots ain't too far behind with the way wow is going and might pop out in a later patch for a fee of course, no time to play wow yet still want to play wow? don't worry, for £20 a month extra you can use our 100% legal bots to do everything for you so you can come home from a long hard day at work and stand outside the bank in SW for 6 hours doing absolutely fuck all.

Kinda reminds me of people moaning about not having time to raid yet still wanting the epic gear and me always sitting here thinking to myself if they don't have time to raid why the hell do they want the epic gear? same goes for people moaning about the honor grind, if you don't have time to actually farm bg's for honor why the hell do you want the gear in the first place?

[Deleted]

If they were doing something tournament style, than I could definitely see normalizing gear.

In MtG we had various tournament styles back when I played it (from 1995-1999 or so) like closed tournament and open tournament. Even though I had a sick Type I deck I preferred the tournaments closed. Yes, it was then about RNG, but also about skill: the skill you have to work with your RNG. And hell I had lots of fun variations. I remember one in particular where you had to draw a deck for someone else (except lands) so you made them the worse deck you could.

Why not turn tournament and open play around though. Have by default a gear normalization, and then the tournament a gear ladder. They so-called pro's will be able to work hard to have their niche, while by default the game is casual friendly.

(I know why: it'd remove the social system of PvP artificial ladder.)

Off-topic, do you change your avatar or does it change by itself? Some days it seems angry, today it's carrying a balloon?

Adapts to her moods

@ Neato. Unreadable. Learn to quote.

[Naoto]

And how would you separate the pro from the casual? base it on gear level, then have someone who plays arena at a 2600+ rating still shitting on casual's with equal gear because believe me, that would happen leading us to another problem, people still complaining. Or make it an option to join the pro/casual bg's? then you'd still get pro's joining the casual one just for the lols of murdering everything and everyone which also wouldn't solve jack.

Have it based on skill? impossibru, have it based on arena rating? again impossibru.

Simply put, there is no way to separate the pro's from the scrubs but one way that MIGHT help would have bg's for people in FULL PVP gear which would be the best way to avoid being dumped with 280k hp people on your team and the likes but again, people would still complain that even in full PVP gear this guy beat them and made them sad.

Simple thing to do is keep it as is and if people don't like it, then boo fucking hoo.

I also don't believe it's a case of pro's and casual's, in my opinion it's more like workers and freeloaders aka the people who like to earn stuff compared to the people who like handouts, what category do you fall under? personally I like to earn my shit.

lolalola - it's clearly readable you just don't have any valid points other than "I hate grinding boo" so no hard feelings.

[Deleted]

Naoto wrote: let's compare it to PVE as usual

Bad compares, like comparing cars with computers

you can't compete in full blues against someone in full epics on an equal skill level so why do people want this for PVP?

You're playing against a computer, an AI. I don't like the PvE grind either. I got pretty much sick of all the grinds. I just want to play a class on max level, fiddle with it, and figure if its my cup of tea. Then I want to PvP maybe on a rogue one day, and then maybe another day I'd like to do it on a resto druid. And I don't want to grind, and then catch up again, and grind again to catch up. I want a fair playing field right away. If I really want to become good at PvP I'd stick to one class and spec and practice it a lot.

I was always very casual in my PvP in WoW, and I was too stupid to see how stupid the PvE grind was. How much it creates an artificial replay value. It was also during this time I didn't play many other games even though previously I played Chess, Scrabble, CoD 4, competitively.

this is an RPG game and gear always matters in them

Untrue. Not when there is normalization.

From Wikipedia, this is what an RPG is about:

A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game[1][2]) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[4]

That's what a RPG is about. The MMO just means it is massively played 24/7, online.

Not really, as I said someone in full epic PVP gear doesn't mean they are 2k players and I've been doing bg's long enough to know how to play them.

Does not discredit the value of gear. You said so yourself. It has a big enough influence, but people are delusional in the importance of it. If you're a good PvP player, or like to improve when you're not, you'll see how much fun it is to play gear normalized games.

[...] yet still managed to get kills [...]

If you can't even kill anything then yeah, you're pretty bad. Also, BGs aren't about kills. But you're so pro, you already knew that right

I also love how people act like gearing a toon takes months

One of the things people are delusional to is the amount of time they are investing in games like this.

If you'd rather just read a book then to be fair here, you're the type of clueless tool that has made WOW a worse game over the years, the type of guy who wants everything for free and all that shit but I'm sorry to say it ain't gonna happen, so maybe you should stick to scrabble after all.

Just a fair playing field is all I want. I don't want to win "for free" though.

Ok so your point is GW2 isn't a game based on grinding, now let me ask how well that's working out for them? surely if you'd rather play a game with less grind you'd be playing GW2 right now and not WOW?

Indeed I am. What keeps me playing WoW is the social reason. I know a lot of people playing WoW.

Or, if you hate botting you can always join a bg and find a nice safe spot to leach while you either play another toon on a second account or watch something on your pc/tv but be sure to move every few mins and make sure you don't get the inactive debuff, here is another way to gear.

I find that a waste of time and electricity.

I also don't believe it's a case of pro's and casual's, in my opinion it's more like workers and freeloaders aka the people who like to earn stuff compared to the people who like handouts, what category do you fall under? personally I like to earn my shit.

You have 8 level 90s, and you're drawing in detail about how casual friendly the game is based on your awesome experiences. Mother of God I know casual players who barely have one level 90.

And how would you separate the pro from the casual? base it on gear level, then have someone who plays arena at a 2600+ rating still shitting on casual's with equal gear because believe me, that would happen leading us to another problem, people still complaining. Or make it an option to join the pro/casual bg's? then you'd still get pro's joining the casual one just for the lols of murdering everything and everyone which also wouldn't solve jack.

The pro's don't like the lack of competition in BGs. They play arena and rated BGs, and the ladder cause it is fair. But you do see them pwning some "gearing up noobs" in BGs. So there's your ladder system. Let those so-called pro's win on skill alone and not on gear by normalizing the BGs. It works for tournaments like MtG, it works in SC2, it works in Chess, it works in Scrabble.

[Talen]

Why should a person who takes, say, 6 months off from the game be able to come back and be instantly competitive with someone who was actively PvPing their ass off all that while? I don't even PvP and I don't think that would be fair. What would be the point of playing regularly?

To enjoy the game is the obvious answer.

Too obvious?

If you instead mean that players who play should be rewarded more? Sure. But that can be done without putting into place a gear grind, an unnecessary barrier to entry or ensuring that PvP comes down to who has the best gear as opposed to which player is better.

Should the player who has been away for 6 months be as competitive as someone who has been actively PvPing the whole time? If you want PvP as a serious aspect of the game...then yes, they should be just as competitive, allowing for personal skill and the rustiness of the player who hasn't played for 6 months. They simply shouldn't have the same level of rewards.

What would be the point of getting and upgrading gear if it all just gets downgraded anyway?

Whats the point of engaging in PvP knowing you'll lose because you have a lower GS?

But I don't believe normalizing gear is the answer.

Remove gear and level as a factor in PvP, and you are down to class balance and individual/team skill. You increase the players available for the various BGs reducing wait times. You get rid of any barrier to entry for PvP and ensure any and every player is capable and ready for it. You create a situation where PvP can be integrated into the game in a manner that level and gear currently forbid. You do away with much of the problems associated with ganking.

And the downside is that the gear grind is partially removed so instead of working your way towards PvP progression, you'll need to find some other way to reward PvP participation. Such as titles, pets, mounts, transmog gear, etc.

The main problem, aside form the possible technical side and the continuing issues with class balance, is whether players would be motivated by vanity items instead of the ability to know they have an actual advantage over their competitors in that aspect of the game.

EJL

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

If we want social unequal games where you have to "work" (read put time or money into the game) then we got games like

1) WoW
2) MtG
3) ...

Instead of wasting time doing the initial grind (which many regular PvP players do not experience) why not play a game where the leveling field is equal?

I compare WoW to some kind of secret fraternity where you first have to do macabre stuff before you actually joined the club on equal ground. If I want that unequal stuff I will take a job at McDs and work myself up. If I want to have quickly 30 min of my time in a completely fair fight (without having to do grinds) I will play a game like Scrabble, Chesss, CoD, or GW2. The only thing which allows me to beat others there, and them me, is skill and I can fairly improve this by playing the game more, do research, etc. The gear grind is also nothing but some kind of investment to keep you play. Yes, people are right about this, once you got your full mal set its a waste to not use it.


I'd rather just read a book or play one of the games I mentioned above. Those are worth my time. Grinds not, they're made for mindless bots, drones. Literally. That's why bots do PvP. Because a kid who earns 15 USD/hour is better off paying for such than play the grinds themselves.
.

Its not in the bit unequal for one. Everyone in WoW has the same opportunity, the same possible choices as everyone else. It would be Unequal if Blizzard said "Sorry Lemonparty, you have to use only PVE gear, and we are giving everyone you fight full PVP gear for free"....


If you want the gear, you can go get it just like anyone else. Even in CoD you have to grind experience to get the better perks, the better guns, the better attachments. You don't start out with those for free. You have to earn it. You have to get kills with a specific gun to get that silencer, or variable zoom scope. Many of the favored perks are also given later in the leveling tiers. You don't have to prestige, but you still have to work your way up that ladder the first time.

If you don't like the pvp system in WoW, then you are free to read a book. Its unfair that you would try to change it for everyone who likes it. If you like gear normalization, then play GW2. I sure would hate for all games to be exactly the same.

[Naoto]

So wait, comparing two elements of the same game is bad yet comparing two completely different games isn't, say what? who cares about SC2 which is an RTS? since when has any RTS game had gear levels and all that jazz? how many RPG's have you played that didn't have gear levels? it's a massive part of any RPG whether you like to admit it or not, what would be the point of putting countless hours into a game without the gear? no point at all.

Yes I ain't using quotes again as I fucking detest that shiet but you always come across as such a lazy individual who wants stuff for free, you can't even be arsed to gear a toon yet some people like myself have to gear half a dozen including two specs sometimes even 3 so if we can do it why can't you? I'm drawing from my experience of over 5 years of me spending 90% of my time on wow inside a bg so I kinda know how easy/hard it is to gear a toon and all that shit I didn't say I was casual although I'm more casual than I ever was yet can still gear my toons in no time simply because I don't mind putting a bit of work in.

Anyway I'm just saying the same stuff because it always boils down to one thing, you want free gear. Ever played BF3? that game is a huge grindfest and I played it for a bit then realized these guys have put hundreds of hours into the game and have much better guns and stuff than me so I had two options, deal with it or stop playing the game and because I couldn't be arsed grinding for god knows how long to be on a level playing field I stopped, these are the same two options you and anyone else has for wow, deal with it or stop but complaining about it solves nothing.

You factor in gear yet not the balance issue, if you had equal gear would you still beat a class even if it was so OP simply because you has equal gear? lol no, just no. Then we'd have people STILL complaining that even with equal gear they can't kill a frost mage or warrior because they are op as fuck so back to square one we go.

If there is one thing I've learned from my time playing WOW it's this: people are never happy and will complain regardless.

Oh and this is hardly the biggest problem with regards to bg's I think the bots are a more pressing issue then you have the op healers that can make or break a bg as well so even if you have your equal gear that really won't help in a bg full of either bots or healers then what? yep back to square one again where you and the rest complain about something new. There are improvements Blizzard can do to make bg's a lot more fun and a better experience in general but they won't.

"Whats the point of engaging in PvP knowing you'll lose because you have a lower GS?"

That's some of the most pointless crap I've read in a long time, if that's your attitude towards PVP then do us all a favour and stay away from it

[Kreeshak]

Winning against undergeared people is extremely fun and fair! I am not going to rank what matters more in wow, gear, class or skill, all of them are important.

For everyone that hates losing to someone with better gear there is going to be someone else who hates losing to someone with a better class.

For every x effort someone makes to improve his gear, there might be someone who puts the very same x effort to level all classes. Now if gear didn't matter why would the fotm reroller have an advantage over the dedicated one class player?

In my eyes people complaining about gear imbalances are the worst fotm rerollers.

[Hulari]

I've just started to PVP this week. I bought a full set of contenders gear and I have been using some retarded ilvl 429 green weapon as an arms warrior. Grinding the gear isn't the problem for me, I have no trouble gritting my teeth in BGs and fighting against players that outgear me to no end.

What I do find a problem is having 50-60% of my team being bots and sitting at a base causing me to lose BG after BG making the gear journey take longer and be so much more infuriating.

[Kazgrel]

It isn't a problem for those people botting, either, since they don't have to sit there and bash their face into their keyboard out of frustration from trying to farm gear.

Disclaimer: I don't bot, and I don't like that it's so rampant, but I see reasons why it is. Just sayin'

[Deleted]

So for someone who has spent 3 months on doing RBGs and Arenas in the current season, his work should be ignored and he should have the same gear as a freshly dinged alt. Gear is their reward for working hard (along with titles and achies), your request is invalid

[Deleted]

So for someone who has spent 3 months on doing RBGs and Arenas in the current season, his work should be ignored and he should have the same gear as a freshly dinged alt. Gear is their reward for working hard (along with titles and achies), your request is invalid

His reward is the experience, rating and achievements he earned, as well as earning gear to stomp badly gear players in duels/random BGs/world PvP.