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  1. #201
    It isn't a problem for those people botting, either, since they don't have to sit there and bash their face into their keyboard out of frustration from trying to farm gear.

    Disclaimer: I don't bot, and I don't like that it's so rampant, but I see reasons why it is. Just sayin'

  2. #202
    So for someone who has spent 3 months on doing RBGs and Arenas in the current season, his work should be ignored and he should have the same gear as a freshly dinged alt. Gear is their reward for working hard (along with titles and achies), your request is invalid

  3. #203
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elzor View Post
    So for someone who has spent 3 months on doing RBGs and Arenas in the current season, his work should be ignored and he should have the same gear as a freshly dinged alt. Gear is their reward for working hard (along with titles and achies), your request is invalid
    His reward is the experience, rating and achievements he earned, as well as earning gear to stomp badly gear players in duels/random BGs/world PvP.

  4. #204
    Levelling to 90 is a bigger pain than getting full honor gear, you could easily argue that it's unfair you have to grind up 89 levels just to compete with the other people who are already capping conquest. Why not just get a free lvl90 to go along with the free pvp gear that's being suggested?
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  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    Levelling to 90 is a bigger pain than getting full honor gear, you could easily argue that it's unfair you have to grind up 89 levels just to compete with the other people who are already capping conquest. Why not just get a free lvl90 to go along with the free pvp gear that's being suggested?
    Questing/leveling is pve. Pve at it's core is grinding. Pvp isn't.

    Just because people have always had to grind pvp gear doesn't make that grind ok in any way. I've done it every single season since s2 and I know that the game is a helluva lot more fun when all parties are equally geared. You know you're beating someone on your own merits or that someone is just flat out better than you instead of "OMG QQQQQ YOU HAS T2 WEAPUNZ".

    Reducing/removing he gear discrepancy would also more clearly highlight class imbalances (since Blizzard seems to be blind to them when people are still gearing up) allowing Blizzard to at least attempt to bring a semblance of balance to the game (inb4 "lol pvp never has been or will be balanced". The game was a more balanced in s6 and s7 then it ever was or has been since).
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  6. #206
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    Levelling to 90 is a bigger pain than getting full honor gear, you could easily argue that it's unfair you have to grind up 89 levels just to compete with the other people who are already capping conquest. Why not just get a free lvl90 to go along with the free pvp gear that's being suggested?
    The point is that it is impossible to catch up because of how the conquest point system is designed. If you start pvping 3-4 months in, you are better off waiting until next season.

  7. #207
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    PvP Gear Feedback
    Why not add in a reduction in conquest points required to purchase gear as the season progresses? Like a 25 point deduction per week. That way casuals/people re rolling aren't left in the dust mid way through the season.
    Stay strong! This is a subject that we've been giving a lot of thought to lately. We'll have more to report in the near future.
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  8. #208
    Im sorry, but if someones been playing for longer in bgs, and gearing up, and your joining as a random bg, when it should be pot luck who ever you go against, some times when I do it on alts, its against a disadvantage, sometimes we have one of those "lol" bgs

    Thats the risk you take

  9. #209
    Just my 2 cents: It seems ppl are forgetting that the entire mantra of an RPG is to grind gear to get better and once you get the best gear you find out that there's even better gear out there somewhere, normalizing gear defeats that purpose. Nobody grinds for the best PvP gear only to be told they cant use it in all PvP settings. PvP right now is a lil broken but not as bad as ppl think (coming from a Ret pally PvP'er). Yes, some classes need a buff to be on par with the FotM classes, but as a whole, PvP, a few tweaks to some classes aside, is as balanced as it can be. nobody realizes how hard it is to balance PvP, compared to PvE where you just +/- boss or add mechanics timings, in PvP you have to account for player skill, reaction time, arena layouts, etc.

    Like i said earlier this is all coming from a Ret Pally player so i know how crazy it can be...I do pretty well in Random BG's but there are times where no matter how hard i try i know there are some classes (most) that i just cant beat (warriors, Priests, locks). I dont complain because firstly, its just a game, and secondly, i realize my limitations. and unless GC nerfs Rets into the ground imma play my beloved class regardless of them not being invited to RBG's or not having access to any Defensive CD's outside of a dispellable bubble.

  10. #210
    Pandaren Monk
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    Ok lets look at this another way...

    Ive been watching ALOT of Reckfuls stream where hes been playing his Warrior on US realms and SPriest on EU realms. Both full geared and playing 2k+ the games r great to watch and every time the game is decided on either skill or an error... this is EXACTLY how the game should be.

    Not once in over 200 hours of watching Reckful play have i heard them mention gear. The game at this level is all about Skill.

    Secondly to back up this point... he levelled his Rogue a week ago and he cant even use it in arena cos the gear gap is too great which makes it pointless to play. I remind u that this is the best ever Rogue player who cant compete due to gear... thats right, not skill, not balance, not broken mechanics stopping him play... its GEAR.

    PvP in Wow is only about skill when everyone has the same gear.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Ok lets look at this another way...

    Ive been watching ALOT of Reckfuls stream where hes been playing his Warrior on US realms and SPriest on EU realms. Both full geared and playing 2k+ the games r great to watch and every time the game is decided on either skill or an error... this is EXACTLY how the game should be.

    Not once in over 200 hours of watching Reckful play have i heard them mention gear. The game at this level is all about Skill.

    Secondly to back up this point... he levelled his Rogue a week ago and he cant even use it in arena cos the gear gap is too great which makes it pointless to play. I remind u that this is the best ever Rogue player who cant compete due to gear... thats right, not skill, not balance, not broken mechanics stopping him play... its GEAR.

    PvP in Wow is only about skill when everyone has the same gear.
    What pvp gear is he talking about? Contenders is not worth it to be called pvp gear, it's trash.
    And rogues are currently trash as well, being one of the very best rogues is not going to make make up for the fact that both his class as his gear is trash.
    Also, khuna > reck. Yeah, I just said that.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    His reward is the experience, rating and achievements he earned, as well as earning gear to stomp badly gear players in duels/random BGs/world PvP.
    Random bgs nobody is going to play anymore since you don't need the gear ?

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Ok lets look at this another way...

    Ive been watching ALOT of Reckfuls stream where hes been playing his Warrior on US realms and SPriest on EU realms. Both full geared and playing 2k+ the games r great to watch and every time the game is decided on either skill or an error... this is EXACTLY how the game should be.

    Not once in over 200 hours of watching Reckful play have i heard them mention gear. The game at this level is all about Skill.

    Secondly to back up this point... he levelled his Rogue a week ago and he cant even use it in arena cos the gear gap is too great which makes it pointless to play. I remind u that this is the best ever Rogue player who cant compete due to gear... thats right, not skill, not balance, not broken mechanics stopping him play... its GEAR.

    PvP in Wow is only about skill when everyone has the same gear.
    Reckful also insists on using his glaives all the time, even though he has 480 pve daggers..

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Luftmangle View Post
    This reason alone is why I hate PvP in general.

    When joining Battlegrounds/Arena your gear should be normalized. Wins should be based on tactics/skill and not gear. It's simple mathematics why the current system fails.

    PvP should be something fun you want to do, not something you know you can't win at based on gear.
    This. I renember back inn TBC when I started playing Arena for the first time kinda. Sure I played crappy back then compared to now, BUT when I first got geared up it got so much smoother, and ever since then I always feelt abit "distant" from PvP, cause of the gear-wall. Id love to play BGs on equal terms, and now with pvp power its even worser.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Its not in the bit unequal for one. Everyone in WoW has the same opportunity, the same possible choices as everyone else. It would be Unequal if Blizzard said "Sorry Lemonparty, you have to use only PVE gear, and we are giving everyone you fight full PVP gear for free"....
    There is always unequality somewhere in the system. People are also reluctant to change, and the complete WoW subscription model works very well with grinds. In a gear normalization the grinders and no lifers are indeed being treated "unfairly" because they "work very hard and invest a lot of time in the game."

    If you want the gear, you can go get it just like anyone else. Even in CoD you have to grind experience to get the better perks, the better guns, the better attachments. You don't start out with those for free. You have to earn it. You have to get kills with a specific gun to get that silencer, or variable zoom scope. Many of the favored perks are also given later in the leveling tiers. You don't have to prestige, but you still have to work your way up that ladder the first time.
    Wrong in CoD4 you could set the lack of XP reset, you can make the earning instant. CoD4 allowed tons of lovely mods (like many FPS before that allowed such as Quake series and Doom 3), full rcon access, and cfg editing. Later CoD MW and BO series didn't allow self hosting on a dedicated server and didn't allow mods. I didn't play those. In a competition, XP at 0 would be alright since it provides a tactical short-term meta game of min-maxing and picking the right options. The keyword here is short-term; completely the opposite of grinds, catch-up games, resets after 6-8 months, etc.

    If you don't like the pvp system in WoW, then you are free to read a book. Its unfair that you would try to change it for everyone who likes it. If you like gear normalization, then play GW2. I sure would hate for all games to be exactly the same.
    I firmly believe millions of players are wasting their time playing the catch-up game (NOT the game itself!). It saddens me, the more so since I used to play that game for a long time myself.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  16. #216
    stat inflation is the problem. i really hope that next expansion they go through with shrinking numbers through the entire game.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Random bgs nobody is going to play anymore since you don't need the gear ?
    Right so if you are only playing the game to grind, and not because you enjoy playing the game, aren't we completely in agreement we are discussing a waste of time? Decenia ago people decided to include the option F5 to save a game. This allowed players to skip content they already completed. Nowadays, we're somehow OK being forced in order to start the game on an equal field to grind the same content over and over again in an unfair playing field. What madness is this?

    How would you pro-grind people feel if Blizzard would sell a complete mal gearset for 20 USD/EUR per character?
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  18. #218
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    Yeah, I can see from your post that you don't PvE. It takes no longer than 3 weeks, maybe at max 4, to catch up with gear in PvE (from the day you step into the main raid). In PvP you will never catch up, because even those with the best gear have still yet to obtain BiS gear. And since they have better gear, they obtain more points each week, hence continueing widening the gear disparity.

    And the fact that there is no honor weapon implemented, that RBGs gives you a higher cap, or that it takes most of the season to gear up, is just beyond my grasp of understanding. I don't really think Blizzard realised what they did to the game when they implemented the upgrading feature.
    You can't catch up to Heroic PvE gear in 3 weeks..... You can't even catch up to Normal PvE gear in 3 weeks. You may get lucky in LFR but you won't catch up. Not unless you get boosted. And if we're talking about BiS PvP gear, then you have to compare that to BiS PvE gear i.e Heroic gear. So no, you can't catch up in 3 weeks in PvE either.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elzor View Post
    So for someone who has spent 3 months on doing RBGs and Arenas in the current season, his work should be ignored and he should have the same gear as a freshly dinged alt. Gear is their reward for working hard (along with titles and achies), your request is invalid
    His work shouldn't be ignored. But neither should the PvP skill of his opponent be rendered null and void because of gear.

    Rewards can always be provided for effort. For time spent. Should that reward be something which diminishes the effect of skill? Which causes a players chance of victory to be based upon a comparsion of their gearscore?

    The gear grind has one benefit and that is to give PvP players something to do. Unfortuantely, it is also something which undermines and destroys PvP. It creates huge imbalances. it encourages anti-social behavior. It de-emphasises skill. It creates huge barriers agaisnt entry for PvP. It deters players from taking part. It inhibits the development of PvP within the game world. And so on.

    Put simply, if the reward for doing PvP is gear so you can essentially win without thinking, then the reward is poorly thought out. Transmog gear. Battle Pets. Titles. Mounts. Tabards. Vanity items. All these and more would make suitable PvP rewards. For all that Blizzard want to bring PvP back, I can't think of any other single factor that holds it back more. I think PvP could have a far greater impact on the game if the various factors can be removed in favor of actual balance and gameplay. Stat or gear normalisation would allow that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    PvP in Wow is only about skill when everyone has the same gear.
    No...there's also class

    Seriously tho, the fewer sources of imbalance there are, the better the system can be. I find PvP to be immense fun....but usually only if the gear doesn't give one side or the other a huge advantage. Once the gear level is close or equal, then we start to see skill, experience, class knowledge shine through.

    The "one hit and you are dead" PvP style of WoW simply doesn't interest me. I get that there is a feeling of power in it, but I feel PvP, as a whole, suffers because of it. Blizzard can't really put in place systems and mechanics which rely on PvP because such systems and mechanics only really work if the PvP field is balanced. And that isn't the case with the gear grind applying to PvP.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-01-12 at 04:43 AM.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    What pvp gear is he talking about? Contenders is not worth it to be called pvp gear, it's trash.
    And rogues are currently trash as well, being one of the very best rogues is not going to make make up for the fact that both his class as his gear is trash.
    Also, khuna > reck. Yeah, I just said that.
    Reckful has been ranked no1 worldwide PvP player more than once on the Wow rankings. When has Khuna ever got himself ranked no1 worldwide?

    i rest my case.

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