Winning against undergeared people is not rewarding

[pkm]

Gearing is what this game is based on and that's never gonna change whether we like it or not.

[Dcruize]

Once you get honor gear (easy grind) you're not at that much of a disadvantage. With skill you can counter mirrors - unfortunately low gear + class disadvantage is a huge barrier. Anyone else noticed the huge amount of non-fotm gladiator/2.4k/AM teams stuck around 1800mmr? Virtually every game we play at that level is either against a mindless cleave team or decent players, never a combination of the two. Switching between my full honor geared rogue and full conquest geared rogue makes ZERO difference.

[Deleted]

I don't really understand why they added T2 weapons to pvp at all. Do high rated players need an even bigger advantage over low rated people? No, not at all. I have T2 myself but if blizzard decided to remove it, it wouldn't bother me at all. The recolor of the 2200+ gear is enough of a reward for me (and please give us the tabards back).

For pvp to be balanced everyone should have access to the same gear.

[Nicola]

I don't really understand why they added T2 weapons to pvp at all. Do high rated players need an even bigger advantage over low rated people? No, not at all. I have T2 myself but if blizzard decided to remove it, it wouldn't bother me at all. The recolor of the 2200+ gear is enough of a reward for me (and please give us the tabards back).

For pvp to be balanced everyone should have access to the same gear.

Everyone has access to the gear minus the weapon, and that doesn't matter. Why?
Because players at 1.5k rating with t1 weapons won't be playing against 2.2k rated players with t2 weapons.

[inboundpaper]

But it sure is hilarious, that was the only way I actually killed people back in 4.3.

[Miko]

t2 weapons are ok, its just that threshold that comes at 2k-2200 before you can get yours. If im 2199 rated and I go against 2200 rated team, they are obviously my skill lvl and they have the ability to rape me at will with a t2.

[Avada Kedavra]

This is another QQ thread. I primarily PvP. Lets turn the tables. Lets say that I want to do a raid. I want to do the last raid in the current tier. I cant just log in and go in there with a win button and expect it to be easy. NO, there is a ramp up time, progression, acquiring gear and learning. THE EXACT SAME GOES FOR PVP!!! You want a I win button. You need to progress like the rest of the people progressing whether it be PvP or PvP. You should absolutely not (under any circumstances) perform better in a area where you havent put the time in. I PvP and dont have raid tier gear, thats my choice. But dont come here and QQ about not being good at PvP and demand equality, cause it aint gonna happen. Suck it up, no I WIN button for you.

[Nicola]

t2 weapons are ok, its just that threshold that comes at 2k-2200 before you can get yours. If im 2199 rated and I go against 2200 rated team, they are obviously my skill lvl and they have the ability to rape me at will with a t2.

The difference between a t1 and a t2 ain't that big and also, if you are at 2199 rating, you'll more likely play against someone that's slightly below you instead of above you.

[Deleted]

This is another QQ thread. I primarily PvP. Lets turn the tables. Lets say that I want to do a raid. I want to do the last raid in the current tier. I cant just log in and go in there with a win button and expect it to be easy. NO, there is a ramp up time, progression, acquiring gear and learning. THE EXACT SAME GOES FOR PVP!!! You want a I win button. You need to progress like the rest of the people progressing whether it be PvP or PvP. You should absolutely not (under any circumstances) perform better in a area where you havent put the time in. I PvP and dont have raid tier gear, thats my choice. But dont come here and QQ about not being good at PvP and demand equality, cause it aint gonna happen. Suck it up, no I WIN button for you.

Did you even read any of the posts in this thread, seems to me you havent.

[Violent]

To catch up in a season is no problem at all nowdays.

Easy to grab some decent rating to get an increased cap to gain gear fast enough.

LoL, As opposed to when?

---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 04:02 PM ----------

Everyone has access to the gear minus the weapon, and that doesn't matter. Why?
Because players at 1.5k rating with t1 weapons won't be playing against 2.2k rated players with t2 weapons.

Bullshit they don't. There is even Rbg teams that group up and do random, unrated BGs.. Just because of the gear difference and how they're able to hold another team at their GY for the duration.

[Nicola]

LoL, As opposed to when?

---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 04:02 PM ----------



Bullshit they don't. There is even Rbg teams that group up and do random, unrated BGs.. Just because of the gear difference and how they're able to hold another team at their GY for the duration.

Yes, nobody cares about non rated bgs.
Also, they camp the other graveyard because they are a premade team with proper communication, not because they have t2 weapons.

[kosechi]

Everyone has access to the gear minus the weapon, and that doesn't matter. Why?
Because players at 1.5k rating with t1 weapons won't be playing against 2.2k rated players with t2 weapons.

unless said T2 capable player started late in the season.....

the gear issues this season basically renders it impossible to outskill a team that out gears you.

[Violent]

Yes, nobody cares about non rated bgs.
Also, they camp the other graveyard because they are a premade team with proper communication, not because they have t2 weapons.

So only the shit you have a problem with matters then, is that what you're saying? Or because you don't care about non rated bgs, so they don't matter?

Way to go tool.

A premade with decent skill can stil get beaten out, I've seen it before. But not with such a gear difference as now.

[Snuggli]

I'm dabbling in the top-3 2s on my Druid, and was glad range 3s (been overtaken now) for a couple weeks.

Currently on my full contenders and 4/5 dreadful shaman (dont have weapons), I have a 6-11 win/loss at 1.3k mmr while trying to cap with a fully geared friend. More than 1000 rating off what I play on my fully geared character.

Gear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skill > Class

[Nicola]

unless said T2 capable player started late in the season.....

the gear issues this season basically renders it impossible to outskill a team that out gears you.

Yeah, and?
1.5k players with t1 still won't be playing against 2.2k rated players with t2...
Sure that t2 capable player may currently be sitting at 1.5k, but that also means he has a t1 weapon.

I'm dabbling in the top-3 2s on my Druid, and was glad range (been overtaken now) for a couple weeks.

Currently on my full contenders and 4/5 dreadful shaman (dont have weapons), I have a 6-11 win/loss at 1.3k mmr while trying to cap with a fully geared friend. 1000 rating off what I play on my fully geared character.

Gear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skill > Class

2s mean absolutely nothing because it's as imbalanced as duels, also, glad doesn't exist in 2s.

Secondly, class > skill > gear bro.
Give me a contenders geared warrior and within a week I'm sitting at 2k, give me a fully malevolent rogue, and with some luck I can reach 2k with that.

So only the shit you have a problem with matters then, is that what you're saying? Or because you don't care about non rated bgs, so they don't matter?

Way to go tool.

A premade with decent skill can stil get beaten out, I've seen it before. But not with such a gear difference as now.

Yeah, keep blaming it on gear.
Premades get beating because they solely focus on farming kills, not on actually winning. Secondly, even in cataclysm and wotlk most premades stomped randoms into the ground, it has nothing to do with the gear. Yes your premade group is fully geared while the random group will have the occasional shitty geared player, but that's just how it is. Deal with it.

[Deleted]

This is another QQ thread. I primarily PvP. Lets turn the tables. Lets say that I want to do a raid. I want to do the last raid in the current tier. I cant just log in and go in there with a win button and expect it to be easy. NO, there is a ramp up time, progression, acquiring gear and learning. THE EXACT SAME GOES FOR PVP!!! You want a I win button. You need to progress like the rest of the people progressing whether it be PvP or PvP. You should absolutely not (under any circumstances) perform better in a area where you havent put the time in. I PvP and dont have raid tier gear, thats my choice. But dont come here and QQ about not being good at PvP and demand equality, cause it aint gonna happen. Suck it up, no I WIN button for you.

The raids stay the same from the day they are released till the next raid is released, they don't get harder unlike in pvp where the better teams gear up more / faster and you get stuck in lower rating. Also to beat a raid, you need some gear and to memorize the patterns of the encounters. In PVP there are no patterns, people are aggrevated by a lost pvp game because sometimes you can just tell that you are better than the enemy team and you lose because they had more time to farm. You won't get angry at a boss for beeing hard to beat because you know that it's your fault not the games (most of the time) that is the main difference.
Personally when it comes to pvp i'm with the other people saying it needs to be a question of skill only and not a gear question, but on the other side i'm used to playing games like UT iCTF where there is no difference at all between players except their skill so propably thats where i get my disposition from

[Snuggli]

2s mean absolutely nothing because it's as imbalanced as duels, also, glad doesn't exist in 2s.

Secondly, class > skill > gear bro.
Give me a contenders geared warrior and within a week I'm sitting at 2k, give me a fully malevolent rogue, and with some luck I can reach 2k with that.

I meant glad range in 3s.

Also, Warrior is probably the ONLY class where you might be able to get 2k -- and that's because people don't generally touch you.

If your enemies know your gear situation though you wouldn't be able to get past 1.8k.

[Deleted]

Everyone has access to the gear minus the weapon, and that doesn't matter. Why?
Because players at 1.5k rating with t1 weapons won't be playing against 2.2k rated players with t2 weapons.

Never played 5on5 right? Because with an fresly created team you can get lucky and play against THOSE people because there are so few teams even playing 5on5 that they might aswell remove it.

Secondly, class > skill > gear bro.
Give me a contenders geared warrior and within a week I'm sitting at 2k, give me a fully malevolent rogue, and with some luck I can reach 2k with that.

How about no? It's Gear > Gear > Class > Gear > Skill.

[kosechi]

Yeah, and?
1.5k players with t1 still won't be playing against 2.2k rated players with t2...
Sure that t2 capable player may currently be sitting at 1.5k, but that also means he has a t1 weapon.

unless they've made mmr account wide its fairly easy for a t2 capable player to be playing in lower brackets on alts.

a t2 capable player wearing dreadful shouldn't be losing to 1800 player wearing malevolent. there should be some accounting for their superior skill, but their isn't because their gear curve is so steep this season. pvppower is partially to blame, but blizz shot itself in the foot with the upgrade system.

[Dcruize]

As for not facing T2 weapons @ low mmr; met two different warriors in 1700mmr 3s yesterday who didn't have 2k achievement but were sitting >2700cr in RBGs. T2 weapons are all over the place, especially after the exploit/trading mess.