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  1. #101
    you forget ONE major point.

    If gear was normalized in BG´s and or arena, there would be absoluteley no excuse anymore for loosing to someone besides facing the counter class.
    Right now lots of bad playing can be hidden behind the "but he got at least 300 more resilence and pvp power than me"-argument.

    Well yeah we still got DC`s, lag spikes, server lag, "dunno why you dead, the heal just finished and die anyway", cat ran over keyboard amd such.

    Aside from that, if people werent forced to do BG´s to get gear there would be much less BG´s played, which equals a way higher waiting time for those that still want to.
    But on the other hand if there was no grinding needed in pvp, there would be no benefit in grinding pvp, which again would kinda kill bots in bg´s damn you, now i am really undecided...

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    You could give me the best pvp gear available and put me up against a top pvper with entry-level pvp gear and they'd utterly smash me
    No, they wouldn't.

    Go watch reckful play his blue geared rogue against 1400 rated teams, and lose convincingly.

  3. #103
    Not something Blizzard can fix easily, my best bet is that they implement something similar to Challenge modes where your gear is normalized.
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson

  4. #104
    Stood in the Fire anisadora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thopp View Post
    If all gear would be normalized people would bitch 10xtimes more about pvp not being balanced..
    I really am starting to believe that the people who bitch about pvp not being balanced/even-about-classes-now-sucking are people who A - have no idea wtf their class is for and how to use their toolboxes, and B - are pissed theyre no longer the FOTM.

  5. #105
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    No, they wouldn't.

    Go watch reckful play his blue geared rogue against 1400 rated teams, and lose convincingly.
    Rogue is shit, the fact he's undergeared only makes it worse. Nothing special, just terrible class with terrible gear.

    As I've asked in a previous post, find me a multi glad warriors that's complaining he's losing at that rating because he's undergeared.

    I really am starting to believe that the people who bitch about pvp not being balanced/even-about-classes-now-sucking are people who A - have no idea wtf their class is for and how to use their toolboxes, and B - are pissed theyre no longer the FOTM.
    You forgot C: people are to lazy to play 10 games a week for cp points, to do sha for chance to get free offpieces, legs or gloves or to farm battlegrounds and at least getting a fully upgraded set of dreadful gear.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-01-07 at 05:23 PM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ineko View Post
    *Fixed that for you

    I'm pretty sure if you put rank#1 pvpers with full contenders set into an arena with shitty/okay players with full Malevolent the more skilled players would easily win.

    Whilst this argument is valid with player of equal shitness, the REALLY skilled always come out on top.
    well getting hit by 3x 50k hits from a warrior won't save you with "skills"

  7. #107
    Its pretty clear Niberion or w.e doesn't want an even playing field. Back OT vanity items are incentive enough for most people to do things. Also shockingly enough a lot of people like to pvp because it is fun not because of some perceived prestige or superior gear.

  8. #108
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokatii View Post
    Its pretty clear Niberion or w.e doesn't want an even playing field. Back OT vanity items are incentive enough for most people to do things. Also shockingly enough a lot of people like to pvp because it is fun not because of some perceived prestige or superior gear.
    I've said it plenty of times already it should be easier to catch up, I think a honor weapon should have been nice as well.
    However, people also need to put some effort into getting gear and having it handed on a silver plate.

    If people think they can play with an underpowered class, with the worst pvp gear currently available and think they can get a high rating with that, they are just dumb, regardless of how amazingly skilled they are.

    Improving gear is simply an aspect of wow, and while the gap between the low end and the high end is bigger now due item upgrading, the gap between malevolent and upgraded malevolent is not.
    At lower rating you've always had fully geared people fighting undergeared people, it was like that in cataclysm, it was like that in wotlk and it in tbc you even had gladiators making teams over and over to stomp the baddies.

    Getting "conquest" gear has never been easier then ever before. It's only item upgrading that makes it really hard to catch up.
    Upgrading all your malevolent gear takes longer then getting a full set of malevolent gear, yet, the difference between upgraded malevolent gear and normal malevolent gear is smaller then the difference between dreadful and malevolent.


    And again, it should be easier to catch up if you start mid season, however, the differences between honor gear and conquest gear is perfectly fine. People are just crying for the sake of it or because some famous player gets his ass kicked on his very underpowered class and blames it all on gear (The same player that rolled warrior because rogues are shit)

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Divineknight13 View Post
    im sorry but in the current state of pvp id like you to put any rank 1 player infront of me and give me a toon with full mael and a t2 weapon and watch me eat there face then tell me that skill > gear

    ive given rank 1 players a run for there money and ive never had t2 or been over 2200+ rating ... and even beaten glads and some of my servers rank 1s ... ive NEVER had even close to bis or a t2 weapon in my time of wow ... but this is in the past... when your statement would be correct but arena is ZOMG 1 button macro all your cds and score a kill now ...

    its very simple if the burst is more then your total hp then what does skill help you with?
    So you never had 2200+ rating and yet you claim to be better than everybody else ? right.

  10. #110
    Scarab Lord Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokatii View Post
    Its pretty clear Niberion or w.e doesn't want an even playing field. Back OT vanity items are incentive enough for most people to do things. Also shockingly enough a lot of people like to pvp because it is fun not because of some perceived prestige or superior gear.
    How is it uneven? You are allowed to farm CP just like the rest of us. The difference is, you don't want to, so you complain its "unfair."
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  11. #111
    No amount of skill will prevent you from dying in a shockwave in full contender gear vs full molev.

  12. #112
    Its so easy to get honor gear now its laughable that a topic like this would even exist. It takes what 3-4 days to be in a full set of current season honor gear? Damn thats sooooo long.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    Its so easy to get honor gear now its laughable that a topic like this would even exist. It takes what 3-4 days to be in a full set of current season honor gear? Damn thats sooooo long.
    honor gear=/= malevolent gear

    it takes 3-4 weeks to get your weapon unless you started out with absurdly high mmr and skyrocket your rating. the throughput boost from the weapon alone (it imparts about 30% more pvp power then a pve weapon) is absolutely massive. it takes many many more weeks to completely replace all honor gear with conquest gear. and then another couple to completely upgrade it.

    its a long fucking time to get fully geared unless you are wintrading your way with rbgs or are in the top tier of pvpers. for the average player, once you are behind, its nearly impossible to catch up and the gear curve is incredibly steep this season since you can no longer compensate with pve gear.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  14. #114
    Stood in the Fire Management's Avatar
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    GW2 has a great system. Why not develop a similar system for wow?

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Management View Post
    GW2 has a great system. Why not develop a similar system for wow?
    because it didnt work in gw2, the incentives were simply not enough.
    For example: i got the looks i wanted through arcane slivers + free tournament tokens + rng
    All other looks i even remotely wanted were on ranks 30+ which take an insane ammount of time to reach.

    Because of this very very few still play gw2 pv.

  16. #116
    Scarab Lord Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    honor gear=/= malevolent gear

    it takes 3-4 weeks to get your weapon unless you started out with absurdly high mmr and skyrocket your rating. the throughput boost from the weapon alone (it imparts about 30% more pvp power then a pve weapon) is absolutely massive. it takes many many more weeks to completely replace all honor gear with conquest gear. and then another couple to completely upgrade it.

    its a long fucking time to get fully geared unless you are wintrading your way with rbgs or are in the top tier of pvpers. for the average player, once you are behind, its nearly impossible to catch up and the gear curve is incredibly steep this season since you can no longer compensate with pve gear.
    The system rewards players for spending time in the game. You have just as much opportunity to get your weekly capped points, as the next guy. No one has said it doesn't take time. But pretending you're at a disadvantage is just plain wrong.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 05:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Management View Post
    GW2 has a great system. Why not develop a similar system for wow?
    If you like that system, then no offense, stick with it and play GW2 instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    The system rewards players for spending time in the game. You have just as much opportunity to get your weekly capped points, as the next guy. No one has said it doesn't take time. But pretending you're at a disadvantage is just plain wrong.[COLOR="red"]
    as a 2k+ caliber player, with teammates who have been capable of nearly 2.4k in the past, we shouldn't be struggling against 1.6k players who wintraded their way to T2 because of our gear alone. and we are. and thats a problem. there is really no way to compensate for gear with skill right now because of how steep the gear curve is.
    getting pve gear out of pvp was a good idea, but it created a whole other problem where being behind on pvp gear can create huge imbalances. i mean god forbid i miss two weeks around christmas because i got sick, or my dk got to 90 three weeks late because he was out of state for business.

    here. have a video. a friend of mine who likes making videos recorded this. hes not a 2k hero like me, he is a serious pvper with multiple gladiator titles to prove it. i think its a telling example of the state of ret, of how much gear impacts play and how moronic some classes are right now.

    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  18. #118
    Scarab Lord Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    as a 2k+ caliber player, with teammates who have been capable of nearly 2.4k in the past, we shouldn't be struggling against 1.6k players who wintraded their way to T2 because of our gear alone. and we are. and thats a problem. there is really no way to compensate for gear with skill right now because of how steep the gear curve is.
    getting pve gear out of pvp was a good idea, but it created a whole other problem where being behind on pvp gear can create huge imbalances. i mean god forbid i miss two weeks around christmas because i got sick, or my dk got to 90 three weeks late because he was out of state for business.

    here. have a video. a friend of mine who likes making videos recorded this. hes not a 2k hero like me, he is a serious pvper with multiple gladiator titles to prove it. i think its a telling example of the state of ret, of how much gear impacts play and how moronic some classes are right now.

    I think there are many things that could be contributing to this, a little hubris, a little counter classing, you guys missing points caps.

    This is a 100% intended "imbalance." This game has always been about spending time to get gear. If you spend less time, it is ridiculous to think you should have as good of a gear score as someone who spent more time than you. Utterly ridiculous. As someone else has stated, getting gear has never been as quick and easy as it is now. They even made the starter pvp gear cost PENNIES to make.

    I'm sorry you are having trouble at 1600 rating. It sounds like there could be many external reasons besides WoW having a "bad catch-up" system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  19. #119
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    High burst, too much chain ccing, and more skill needed for the upper hand. Not sure if gear is the real issue...?

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I think there are many things that could be contributing to this, a little hubris, a little counter classing, you guys missing points caps.

    This is a 100% intended "imbalance." This game has always been about spending time to get gear. If you spend less time, it is ridiculous to think you should have as good of a gear score as someone who spent more time than you. Utterly ridiculous. As someone else has stated, getting gear has never been as quick and easy as it is now. They even made the starter pvp gear cost PENNIES to make.

    I'm sorry you are having trouble at 1600 rating. It sounds like there could be many external reasons besides WoW having a "bad catch-up" system.
    you are a moron, either you've never played any seasons before this one or you are playing something mongoloid like kittycleave and don't notice. possibly both.

    we are not a not at 1.6k we are at 2k. we are facing 1.6k teams because the ladders are starting to die right now and no one is queuing in the 2k range. its not uncommon for us to face teams as high as 2.6k and as low as 1.5k. its also not uncommon for us to face 1.5k teams wearing T2 because they win traded rbgs to get it.

    i'm not doing rbgs, no one on my team is, unlike apparently everyone else on the american ladders, we are not scum and i refuse to win trade to get my T2, a lot of bad players are however. there is no way a 2k caliber team should be losing to 1.6k players based on t2 and fully upgraded gear because of the higher rbg cap. but thats exactly whats happening, and not just to me.

    there is being outgeared and then there is what is going on right now. i certainly didn't expect to be able to beat a full wrathful team while wearing deadly gear, but i certainly should be able to out skill them while wearing relentless.

    skill isn't a deciding factor anymore because of the moronic damage some classes are capable of and the rampant exploiting and win trading completely screwing up gear progression.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

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