Winning against undergeared people is not rewarding

[brickerz]

There are constant groups for Low MMR RBG's on my realm. It's very easy to get in and gear up if you put even the smallest amount of effort into it.

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 10:34 AM ----------

Yep. I think it's what pretty much 98% of the PvP community want, but Ghostcrawler says it isn't so, yolo.

Could you please cite your statistic with a published independent study?

[Wootylicious]

gear upgrading and rbg cap being way higher than arena conq cap has to go.

[Niberion]

See here's where I think you're wrong. Not only would probably more than half of arena players want normalized stats on gear but normalized gear would actually increase Arena participation. I know so many people who PvE or PvP casually and thus aren't geared enough to compete in Arena so don't do it at all.

Plus, regarding the rewards, the reward from Arena is titles. Maybe Blizzard could update their ladder to show who is getting what titles throughout the whole season so people can see the Glad/Duelist/Rival/Challenger cutoffs. Also, maybe Blizzard could implement a new 'Elite' gear which changes how your honor gear looks at 1400, 1600, 1800, 2000 and 2200?

Half of the players that do arena are casuals that don't want to spend time in it, or are plain bad and blame it on gear.
For a sub 1.5k player it takes 10 wins to cap, that's about 60% of the PvPers. That really doesn't take much of an effort, nor time.

And really, the gear gap between a sub 1.5k geared player that bothered to cap most weeks and a 2.2k rated player really ain't that big.
Remember those days you needed a certain rating to buy better gear? I can't remember people QQing so badly about it as now, despite all you need to do now is win a few games every week.

Edit; I've said already it's to hard to catch up and that needs a change, but the gear itself is perfectly fine.
Now a question, how well are you geared and how much effort did it take you?

[Alixie]

I really really reaaaly hate that I cant convert my valor to conquest. Second, I think people that have conquest gear should be kept out of the new arena teams bracket, 0-1500. Im trying to gear up my toons but its so freaking hard when most of the people there have a bunch of maleific gear, when Im in dreadful.

[Niberion]

I really really reaaaly hate that I cant convert my valor to conquest. Second, I think people that have conquest gear should be kept out of the new arena teams bracket, 0-1500. Im trying to gear up my toons but its so freaking hard when most of the people there have a bunch of maleific gear, when Im in dreadful.

Most people in that bracket aren't full malevolent geared and trying to gear up themselves, and if they are, they are in most cases just bad.
Also, with full dreadful gear, especially when upgraded, you can easily compete against malevolent geared players.

Gear matters, yes but little, what matters more is what comp you play and how skilled you are.

[Snuggli]

Remember those days you needed a certain rating to buy better gear? I can't remember people QQing so badly about it as now, despite all you need to do now is win a few games every week.

Edit; I've said already it's to hard to catch up and that needs a change, but the gear itself is perfectly fine.
Now a question, how well are you geared and how much effort did it take you?

I think the WotLK way was half right. The gear requirements were weird but you could play games for enjoyment and at the end of the week be rewarded with the points for your rating. Not given a cap that you then have to fill.

And, on my Druid i'm pretty well geared but missed last weeks cap because I can't play 2s cause queues are 10m+ each and my 3s partner wasn't on. My shaman I can't be bothered with anymore this season because capping is horrid when you're undergeared and getting my Pally cap is quite easy because I don't have higher rating.

[Valarius]

Agree with you OP.

The upgrade/"you hould have better gear for playing longer" argument is fine in PvE because other players aren't getting screwed by you having the best gear.

Right now I can't even PvP on my Paladin; I haven't been PvPing much because I was simply too busy to invest all that time into honor grinding. Which means I'm taking like 20%+ more damage and doing what, 30%+ less damage than someone who has been grinding. Next season I hope they do something to help catchup. PvP should not be about having enough gear to 2shot your opponent.

[Gnolp]

Gear matters, yes but little, what matters more is what comp you play and how skilled you are.

This simply isn't true. Some of the best players in the world have admitted it. Reckful's stream the other day had him playing on a newly dinged rogue in a mix of contenders and dreadful gear. He got steamrolled repeatedly at ~1600

Here's another top player admitting the problem on the official forums http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415462574

Unless you can link a char in dreadful without a Conq wep that you have attained 2k on (on a non retarded Battlegroup), I really can't believe you're being serious.

[Niberion]

This simply isn't true. Some of the best players in the world have admitted it. Reckful's stream the other day had him playing on a newly dinged rogue in a mix of contenders and dreadful gear. He got steamrolled repeatedly at ~1600

Here's another top player admitting the problem on the official forums http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415462574

Unless you can link a char in dreadful without a Conq wep that you have attained 2k on (on a non retarded Battlegroup), I really can't believe you're being serious.

No, that's just because he plays one of the 2 shittiest classes available right now.
Let reckful play an OP warrior instead in the same gear and you'll see how won't get steamrolled. Simple as it is. He's playing a very underpowered class with pathetic gear, of course you gonna get steamrolled.
If you played an elemental shaman with crafted gear in cataclysm, anyone with honor or conquest gear would easily beat you as well, simply because you are both undergeared and your spec is shit.

Also, nadagast just says it's hard to catch up mid season, which I completely agree on, as said several times. However, his alt happens to be a monk, we all know how terrible they currently are compared to other classes. Sure he's an amazing player, but no matter how well you are geared, you won't be able to compete with fotm classes now.

Let him play a mage or a shadowpriest instead of a shitty monk and he'll realise how much easier it is to achieve a higher rating, despite being undergeared.

People who complain about gear, are undergeared themself and play a rogue or monk, shouldn't be blaming it on their gear but on their class.
Fully upgraded malevolent gear with t2 weapons won't make up for the fact that another class is 50% stronger then you. There's a reason why high rated rogues and monks are so rare. Not because they have no gear, but because they are shit.

I, a multi glad myself, playing on the hardest battlegroup in eu, don't take people who complain about gear while playing a stupidly underpowered class, for serious, no matter how good they are.
I play 2s myself, to get capped, even I get stomped by 1.5k teams despite being fully geared, simply because holy pal - warlock is a very shitty comp.

EDIT: if you can direct me to a multi glad/r1 glad that's complaining he can't reach 2k with a fotm class, that would be very nice.

[lordzed83]

Its REWARDING
Reward is FUN.
I got full gear and just upgrading now. So much fun on normal bgs when i can global noobs

[Johnkie]

tbh gear gap is just to high, i recall being able to do very well in both bg's and arenas in tbc season 4 (with season 1 gear).
I recall doing fairly well in woltk too, with older season gear... And heck even in cata i didnt really have problems playing in starter gear either.
But in mop... uff.

[Lemonpartyfan]

Such bad logic. If gear was the main factor, people above your gear level would quickly pass you up, leaving you with people closer to your gear level.

So there should be no way (if gear is the most dominate reason) that you would be in the same rating as people with a much high gear average than yourself. Maybe you are just angry because you lost to someone you THOUGHT you were better than. I don't know. I DO know this logic does not make sense.

[Stormtrooperz]

Yknow, technically someone's rating should prevent that, I mean if they have really good gear why the hell do they have such a low rating? Because they just play alot?

That just makes me feel sad for those people tbh.

[Niberion]

Honestly, I still don't see why people complain so much about gear now.
Sure you had no gear upgrading in cataclysm, but you had a way smaller cap as well so it took longer to get gear. (1250 it was, no?)
In wotlk you needed a certain rating as well as a good amount of points to get gear, weaker set was easier to get tho.
In tbc you required a good amount of rating for the current set and a good amount of bg tokens +honor for the weaker set.
In vanilla you had to farm day and night for ages if you wanted the good stuff...

Minus the gear upgrading, it has never been easier to get the best gear available, yet everyone complains. Seriously, what are people expecting from blizzard, BiS PvP gear when they ding 90 in their mailbox?

[peggleftw]

havnt read all the pages of this, but i want to add that pvp on the ptr is the most fun i have had in a long time. everyone in the BG had equal gear near enough, was so much more fun than on live where half your team is in blue pve gear, i know this wouldn't do anything for arena though, but i just wondered if anyone else found ptr pvp a lot more fun because of simillar gear.

[Count Zero]

You could give me the best pvp gear available and put me up against a top pvper with entry-level pvp gear and they'd utterly smash me

[pkm]

Blizz should try implementing a mechanic where under geared players going up against other under geared players. It won't fix all the problems (let's face it nothing will be perfect) but it will allow people to pvp on equal grounds. Wouldn't mind testing this sort of thing on ptr.

[Lemonpartyfan]

Blizz should try implementing a mechanic where under geared players going up against other under geared players. It won't fix all the problems (let's face it nothing will be perfect) but it will allow people to pvp on equal grounds. Wouldn't mind testing this sort of thing on ptr.

There pretty much is. Under geared players would probably be lower in rating. Its ridiculous to think that someone new to arena should be able to beat a veteran all decked out. Get real. Just do your best, farm points, then get gear.

[Vathius]

PvP should be something fun you want to do, not something you know you can't win at based on gear.

Why first person multiplayer games are a true test of pvp skill and cunning, everyone has the same gear and skills. Its the combinations of talents eg and how you use them which make the difference.

[Syh]

Yknow, technically someone's rating should prevent that, I mean if they have really good gear why the hell do they have such a low rating? Because they just play alot?

That just makes me feel sad for those people tbh.

It could also be because of RBGs, carries, and the like.

I've noticed a lot of T2 characters in my battlegroup who can only manage 1.8-2K even with their T2 from RBGs. It's -really- sad, and obnoxious.