View Poll Results: Which?

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  • Communism

    68 50.37%
  • Capitalism

    40 29.63%
  • Fascism

    12 8.89%
  • i am 12 and wut is this

    15 11.11%
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  1. #21

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    Communism and fascism are the same thing. Mostly. At any rate, this isn't a triangle of extremes, it's a bar.
    Communism and fascism are definitely not the same thing. Fascism is the corporate/private interest takeover of the entire state. Communism is a classless based society where all goods and services are allocated equally and the means of production is "owned" by all.

  3. #23
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    How can a philosophy that entirely shuns government intervention be a form of government?
    It most likely would become a corporate hierarchy with a "Might is Right." Zeitgeist and CEOs and board members would be the absolute monarchs of the day.

    I imagine it would be a bit like Weyland Yutani in the Alien universe. The military has affectively become the company's private army as they are the "largest shareholders".

  4. #24
    Mechagnome Sfidt's Avatar
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    Fascism, syndicalism, 3rd way or national socialism. Period.
    S.H.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    It most likely would become a corporate hierarchy with a "Might is Right." Zeitgeist and CEOs and board members would be the absolute monarchs of the day.

    I imagine it would be a bit like Weyland Yutani in the Alien universe. The military has affectively become the company's private army as they are the "largest shareholders".
    Not true, pure assumptions on something that would not be allowed in a capitalism society.
    Just because there isn't a goverment doesn't mean there aren't specific human rights.
    Just because there are no laws doesn't mean i can do whatever i want to do.
    The goverment first takes away your freedom to then protect it, sounds good, huh?

    E:
    Lost all my text before, so gonna recap quickly to make abit more understandable

    True capitalism (anarcho-libertarianism) is the only economic/politic (altought the word politic shouldn't exist) that doesn't abuse human's own rights.
    Communism takes away the rights from people and give them to people with higher power. If communism doens't work in practice, it's not a good theory.

    The way corpoations work in a True capitalistic society would make it pretty impossible for them to start ruling over others. It's right now where bad companys get subsidies from the state and gets different kind of benefits that makes it so they can decide and rule over us. Think the poser below me summed this up though
    Last edited by Telefonorm; 2013-01-03 at 03:17 PM.

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    It most likely would become a corporate hierarchy with a "Might is Right." Zeitgeist and CEOs and board members would be the absolute monarchs of the day.

    I imagine it would be a bit like Weyland Yutani in the Alien universe. The military has affectively become the company's private army as they are the "largest shareholders".
    That wouldn't work because if the largest companies became too oppressive then the public would refuse to buy from them and they would rot. People would start manufacturing/selling their own goods instead of relying on companies they hate.

    That's really what bugs most people about Capitalism, there isn't much room for government to wiggle in there and straighten things out. You'll have to do some work yourself or take some responsability for your own wealth if you want to have any. Most people don't want that responsibility and would rather just have government do something that makes them feel good, even though government NEVER has their better interests in mind anyway.

  7. #27
    High Overlord Sanavi's Avatar
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    I honestly wouldn't want to choose any of these three options, because unregulated capitalism would be oppressive, communism and fascism are way too easily corrupted and abused by individuals or parties; because humanity is flawed and there is no such thing as true equality when ambitious individuals or parties operate in reality.

    If we're talking about ideally though, outside the means of practice and as the inherent ideas as they're conceived 'on paper', I'd take Communism. Sadly, along with fascism, it's an unstable form of government inherent to allowing the manipulative to come to power.

    Too bad Republics aren't an option. :P

  8. #28
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telefonorm View Post
    Not true, pure assumptions on something that would not be allowed in a capitalism society.
    Just because there isn't a goverment doesn't mean there are specific human rights.
    Just because there are no laws doesn't mean i can do whatever i want to do.
    The goverment first takes away your freedom to then protect it, sounds good, huh?
    I disagree. I think an exclusively market driven society would lend itself naturally to absolute power being concentrated in the hands of a few, like in Stalinism. But, rather than being decided by one's loyalty to the State and resolution to destroy 'Enemies of the State', in a purely Capitalist society the amount of someone's power would be determined by how efficiently they can make a profit, ruthlessly pushing competition out of the market and creating a monopoly over certain industries.

    Without laws controlling the ability for corporations to achieve monopoly status, the market economy would be dominated by a few calculating, slick and lucky individuals. They would be able to set any price they wish, making it hard for people to afford basic necessities, there would be no need for workers' rights if there are no other employers to seek work with. Society would be more divided into class strata, with the ultra wealthy holding almost absolute power and working-class being nothing more than a human resource they could hire for whatever wage they chose and sell goods with whatever kind of mark-up they wished.

    The market lends itself to the formation of monopolies and I think it is almost utopian thinking to believe a society with no government, being controlled by market forces would not naturally develop in Totalitarian Oligarchies with just as much death as was caused by the Stalinists at the height of Uncle Joe's power, only the rulers would have the ability to hide behind the nature of the market (supply & demand/efficiency favouring) to excuse deaths of starvation and exposure.

    I believe the dream of small time business interacting fairly with an awareness of morality when factoring business choices and services being provided through "private donations" is a delusion. The market favours the ruthless and cold (not being sad about firing people, destroying competition, setting unreasonable prices on the goods and services they supply). Just look at what kind of person Ayn Rand was.

    The advantage we have in a mixed economy is the block for governments and private business to acquire total control of the state apparatus. I think absolute Capitalism is just as likely to fail as the attempt at Communism from 1917-1926.
    Last edited by Baiyn; 2013-01-03 at 03:34 PM.

  9. #29
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sfidt View Post
    ...or national socialism. Period.
    You disgust me. Why don't you call that by what it's more commonly known as, or don't you have the courage to say it in public?

    The symbols on your sig image are cute too, you probably wouldn't post other more obvious indications of what your beliefs are though.

  10. #30
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    When did Capitalism become an "extreme"?
    I think we're talking about a hypothetical extreme capitalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    How can a philosophy that entirely shuns government intervention be a form of government?
    You could say the exact same thing about communism.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    That wouldn't work because if the largest companies became too oppressive then the public would refuse to buy from them and they would rot. People would start manufacturing/selling their own goods instead of relying on companies they hate.
    A select few might do that, the masses wouldn't. People would curse the companies under their breath but they would still buy their products and use their services simply because the only other alternative would be to make everything yourself, and that's not something people would do as long as there is any other, easier, alternative. No matter how evil that alternative is.

  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    I think we're talking about a hypothetical extreme capitalism.
    I'm curious as to what you think "extreme" capitalism is.

  13. #33
    High Overlord Sanavi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    The advantage we have in a mixed economy is the block for governments and private business to acquire total control of the state apparatus. I think absolute Capitalism is just as likely to fail as the attempt at Communism from 1917-1926.
    That's why I think the US has been very successful, because our form of government has checks and balances for the political and the economical. Our failure was in allowing corporations to do the things they've done in the past 10-15 years and not hold them accountable, along with allowing the same in regards to our politicians expanding our national debt beyond any form of responsibility.

    To try and tie this back into OP, allowing semi-unregulated capitalism in the US the past decade has led to a recession.

  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakadam View Post
    A select few might do that, the masses wouldn't. People would curse the companies under their breath but they would still buy their products and use their services simply because the only other alternative would be to make everything yourself, and that's not something people would do as long as there is any other, easier, alternative. No matter how evil that alternative is.
    Then it's hardly the company's fault then, is it? This is where that pesky word most men dread (George Bernard Shaw was an avowed Marxist, by the way) "responsibility" comes in.

  15. #35
    High Overlord Sanavi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    I'm curious as to what you think "extreme" capitalism is.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire

    There has never been a truly free market example of capitalism, because governments recognize the need to intervene whether to protect the rights of their citizens or protect their own interests.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanavi View Post
    To try and tie this back into OP, allowing semi-unregulated capitalism in the US the past decade has led to a recession.
    Without going off on a huge tangent and entirely derailing the thread into a partisan pissing match, the main reason for the recession was due to the sub-prime mortgage crisis, which was due to banks being forced by government to give loans to people who they knew couldn't pay them (and surprise! They didn't pay them!), and going broke as a result. That would NEVER have happened in a truly Capitalist system where banks had the power to decide who got and didn't get a loan based on merit and risk.

  17. #37
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanavi View Post
    That's why I think the US has been very successful, because our form of government has checks and balances for the political and the economical. Our failure was in allowing corporations to do the things they've done in the past 10-15 years and not hold them accountable, along with allowing the same in regards to our politicians expanding our national debt beyond any form of responsibility.

    To try and tie this back into OP, allowing semi-unregulated capitalism in the US the past decade has led to a recession.
    I pretty much agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Then it's hardly the company's fault then, is it? This is where that pesky word most men dread (George Bernard Shaw was an avowed Marxist, by the way) "responsibility" comes in.
    Luck and the ability to sweet-talk will always be more important factors in deciding one's success in a market economy than "responsibility" or hard work.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome fooliuscaesar13's Avatar
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    All three ideologies are incredible ideas...until you get humanity involved. If we were robots without feelings *or* we weren't greedy sacks of shit...they'd all work.

  19. #39
    Scarab Lord JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Most people don't want that responsibility and would rather just have government do something that makes them feel good, even though government NEVER has their better interests in mind anyway.
    I'm sorry, but lolwhat? I don't even ....
    The government always has the best interests of their people in their mind because they want to be re-elected, thats how it works in Belgium at least.
    But if you have a corrupt government I can see where you are comming from.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 04:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Then it's hardly the company's fault then, is it? This is where that pesky word most men dread (George Bernard Shaw was an avowed Marxist, by the way) "responsibility" comes in.
    Don't trow the word responsibility around like you know what it means.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    I'm proud to be xenophobic.
    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    Leaving the EU would not in any way pose a negative impact on the UK's economy or means/ability to trade with countries within the EU.

  20. #40
    Mechagnome Alakir the Windlord's Avatar
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    I would take most branches of communism before the other two systems.

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