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  1. #321
    People commenting don't understand Australian living costs and wages. Australians earn more than Americans, but also pay more than Americans for everything. The median income is $72k per year currently (~$200 per day - so $35 is well below the poverty line), which is a lot over the American median income of ~$39k (those were the most recent statistics I could find someone feel free to correct me if you have more current ones). Our living costs are correspondingly higher, rent in particular (reference).

    Absolute bare minimum worst of the worst living costs in Australia:

    Rent: Average $200 p.w.+ per person
    Power: $20 p.w.
    Water: $15 p.w.
    Internet: $15 p.w.
    Phone $7.50 p.w.
    Bank charges: $5 p.w. (you won't be eligible for the $35 a day unless you have a phone and a bank account so I'm including them)
    Basic food: $90 p.w. (this is for one person, obv increases for more)

    Total: $262.50 basic living costs per week, or $37.50 a day, increasing from there depending on the number of people. I haven't included public transport in this either as it varies, so this assumes you sit at home, which you can't do because you have to look for work to get your $35. Yes you could cut internet, but then you have to go out to use it (and you are expected to - which then adds public transport costs and so on).

    You could 'live' for $35 a day theoretically, however the biggest issues is that you can barely, barely cover basic essentials, and that traps poor people in an effective cycle of poverty over the longer term.

    This is acknowledged even by the Business Council of Australia (peak lobbying body of businesses here - and how often do you think they support things that inevitably raise business taxes?), who state the amount is so low it's preventing people from accessing employment as they cannot afford things like suitable work clothing, or phone credit to call back about interviews and so on (reference), and you can't afford to socialise because of travel costs and so on, which means you also lose valuable social supports. And of course you're fucked if the fridge breaks down (you simply can't replace it, so that also raises your food costs because you can't buy things and keep them), if you need dental care, and god help you if you need to move and find a house/bond/convince someone to rent to you over competition (which of course means you can't really move around much to look for work either).

    It really is too low relative to our living costs and the basic requirements of actually getting a job.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2013-01-04 at 08:08 AM.

  2. #322
    No, I can't live on $35 a day.

  3. #323
    Bloodsail Admiral Rendia's Avatar
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    I did for a year, feeding a family of 4.

    Rough as hell, but doable.
    "There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you." -Mazer Rackham - Ender's Game Orson Scott Card

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    My one room flat is $1300/month, and I live in one of the cheapest big cities in the US. Of course I live in one of the nicer parts of that city. I could probably find something for $500ish if I really hunted for it and didn't mind doing my own roach extermination.

    I currently live in fourth largest city, the 400-550$ is in the older neighbourhoods in the city, 2-4 rooms in the newer ones will go up to 700-1200/month.

  5. #325
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Well, I am living half-ass decently and I currently make LESS than that at my current job. So yes, it definitely seems reasonable... and sort of fucked up that someone who isn't working makes more than I do working 38 hours a week.

  6. #326
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    My one room flat is $1300/month, and I live in one of the cheapest big cities in the US. Of course I live in one of the nicer parts of that city. I could probably find something for $500ish if I really hunted for it and didn't mind doing my own roach extermination.
    That's because Houston is a shithole. I was born there, but I have never once had any interest in going back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  7. #327
    Rent, car payment, student loan payment and monthly transit pass to go downtown for work is $53/day for me. Add in the rest of the shit, phone, cable, internet, food...no $35/day wouldn't cut it
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  8. #328
    Live? Absolutely. Live with a decent degree of comfort? Absolutely not--and that's a GOOD thing.

    The moment a welfare lifestyle becomes "tolerable", the incentive to get a job disappears entirely for a great many people.

    If you're going to have welfare at all, this is how it should be. Enough to keep you alive, and no more.

  9. #329
    This depends on whether or not this is entirely disposable income. If it isnt, then at least in FL where I live, absolutely not.

  10. #330
    Brewmaster chaosjones's Avatar
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    Thats more than i have per month atm so yep.

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  11. #331
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    Live? Absolutely. Live with a decent degree of comfort? Absolutely not--and that's a GOOD thing.

    The moment a welfare lifestyle becomes "tolerable", the incentive to get a job disappears entirely for a great many people.

    If you're going to have welfare at all, this is how it should be. Enough to keep you alive, and no more.
    My question is, where do you draw the line? Like, I think here it's if you're single you can't qualify for even basic help like food stamps/EBT if you earn more than like... $16,000 a year, and that's gross, not net. Yet for most people, especially if they have debts to pay or things like a car payment or whatever, $16k isn't very much, and even just having food stamps to lessen the amount of money going out for food every month would make an enormous difference, yet wouldn't really cost the state very much.

    Like, should welfare be ONLY for people who have no job, or should it be assistance for people that have a job, but need a better quality of life? I guess that might trigger the EVIL COMMIE response in some people, but I seriously think our crime rate and maybe even obesity rate (healthy food is expensive) would decrease if we had some kind of system in place to ensure that everyone - including the gainfully employed - have at least a certain level of quality of life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  12. #332
    Bloodsail Admiral sugarlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakexe View Post
    She current earns ~$6300 a week,
    LOL
    I don't live in Australia, I am in the US, but I live on $7452.00 per YEAR

    People who have really never been near poverty level income (yes I am assuming about this woman who the quote is from) have NO IDEA what it's like & should do real earnest research into the matter before opening their wealthy mouths.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    My question is, where do you draw the line? Like, I think here it's if you're single you can't qualify for even basic help like food stamps/EBT if you earn more than like... $16,000 a year, and that's gross, not net. Yet for most people, especially if they have debts to pay or things like a car payment or whatever, $16k isn't very much, and even just having food stamps to lessen the amount of money going out for food every month would make an enormous difference, yet wouldn't really cost the state very much.

    Like, should welfare be ONLY for people who have no job, or should it be assistance for people that have a job, but need a better quality of life? I guess that might trigger the EVIL COMMIE response in some people, but I seriously think our crime rate and maybe even obesity rate (healthy food is expensive) would decrease if we had some kind of system in place to ensure that everyone - including the gainfully employed - have at least a certain level of quality of life.
    First off, healthy food is not expensive. Anyone who thinks that has a screwed-up idea of what "healthy food" is.

    Second, if anyone "needs" a better quality of life, they can create it for themselves. No-one is entitled to their neighbors money.

  14. #334
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    As an Aussie I'm already sick and fucking tired of hearing about this.

    I'm sick of bogans having no personal responsibility. They think that slamming out a few screaming progeny in their late teens/early twenties and getting other people's money to raise a fourth generation of welfare mentality is a "job". They then have the nerve to bitch that their free money isn't good enough.

    Here's an idea: Stop having friggin' kids you can't afford.... Or get sterilized.

    Signed, a single taxpaying fascist that rightly receives no government assistance.
    Last edited by Klingers; 2013-01-04 at 07:08 AM.
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  15. #335
    $19 a day (since I'm single) would be enough to cover my monthly insurance, gas, and hobbies, but would be nowhere near enough to rent an apartment on top of that. I'd definitely have to still live with the parents. If it was the $36.50 for just myself, then I'd probably be able to scrape by renting with that, if only slightly.

  16. #336
    $36.75 day x 30 = $1100 month.

    Easily.

    In Los Angeles, you can rent a room for $500 with all utilities included.

    Since this is my entire income, I do not need a car.

    $600 left.

    I'll take $400 per month and place it in my investment account. I'll buy and sell stock with it. I'm very good at that.

    The remaining $200 is for food and other expenses.

    $20 for a cell phone
    $30 a week for food x 4 = $120.

    $60 left. That can be used on bus fare, maybe cheap clothes at an outlet store, cleaning supplies, etc.

    After 1 year of this, I've placed $400 x 12 = $4800 in my investment account.

    Being conservative with my profits from trading, let's say I gain 20% per year on my investments. (again, I'm good at trading). I'll also penalize myself by increasing by 20% only at the end of the year.

    year 1: $4,800 +20% = $5,760
    year 2: $5,760 + $4,800 +20% = $12,672.
    year 3: $12,672 + $4,800 +20% = $20,966.
    year 4: $20,966 + $4,800 +20% = $30,919.
    year 5: $30,919 + $4,800 +20% = $42,862.

    Some people sacrifice 4 years of their working life to go to college and get a degree. I did it a little differently. I sacrificed 5 years to built up a nest egg.

    Now I can stop sacrificing so much. I stop placing that $400 per month in the account. I get my first car with $2000. Some of the $400 per month is for gas and insurance and repairs. No longer need bus fare as well.

    year 6: 40,862 + 20% = $49,034.
    year 7: +20% = $58,841.
    year 8: +20% = $70,609.
    year 9: +20% = $84,731.
    year 10: +20% = $101,677.

    I probably need to buy another car by now. Let's budget $4000 for car#2.

    year 11: $97,677 +20% = $117,212.
    year 12: +20% = $140k.
    year 13: +20% = $169k.
    year 14: +20% = $202k.
    year 15: +20% = $243k.

    Well, my money is going crazy at this point. I just made $41,000 in year 15. I could get off this train whenever I wanted. What if I kept going another 5 years?

    year 16: +20% = $291k.
    year 17: +20% = $350k.
    year 18: +20% = $420k.
    year 19: +20% = $504k.
    year 20: +20% = $605k.

    Now I'm making $100k per year. Not holding a job. Just living off the $35 per day. Could retire easily in your mid 40s. But actually, you've been retired your whole life.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    My question is, where do you draw the line? Like, I think here it's if you're single you can't qualify for even basic help like food stamps/EBT if you earn more than like... $16,000 a year, and that's gross, not net. Yet for most people, especially if they have debts to pay or things like a car payment or whatever, $16k isn't very much, and even just having food stamps to lessen the amount of money going out for food every month would make an enormous difference, yet wouldn't really cost the state very much.
    If someone make $16k annually and has a car payment, they're an idiot. No, they shouldn't be getting welfare because clearly they don't know how to handle their money, so why should they get more? It's called managing a budget, and not living beyond your means. Poor people don't buy cars that require payments, and if they do, they're highly irresponsible and I'd rather not give charity to them.

  18. #338
    The Lightbringer NatePsychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugarlily View Post
    LOL
    I don't live in Australia, I am in the US, but I live on $7452.00 per YEAR

    People who have really never been near poverty level income (yes I am assuming about this woman who the quote is from) have NO IDEA what it's like & should do real earnest research into the matter before opening their wealthy mouths.

    Agreed, it's always the wealthy that think they know what's best for the poorer people. In reality they know fuck all because they live in luxury every day and with the amount of money she gets. I think it's fair to say we should be reducing her amount too, it's a bit too excessive. My father works in the 40c+ (105F+) heat in the desert area of Australia (Above Perth) and gets paid 2,000 which is way way less than what this wealthy witch is getting and it's much more difficult than her damn job, so why should she be getting paid more than someone that really puts their life and body on the line?

    So in short, no I couldn't live on $35 a day unless I was sharing rent with someone else.
    Last edited by NatePsychotic; 2013-01-04 at 07:53 AM.

  19. #339
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    If someone make $16k annually and has a car payment, they're an idiot. No, they shouldn't be getting welfare because clearly they don't know how to handle their money, so why should they get more? It's called managing a budget, and not living beyond your means. Poor people don't buy cars that require payments, and if they do, they're highly irresponsible and I'd rather not give charity to them.
    Are you fucking serious, man? How the fuck do you expect to get to work?

    If you're poor, where do you come up with the $4,000-$6,000 cash you need to buy a non-junker of a car outright, without having to setup a car payment? What about the mandatory car insurance? Even some place like Safe Auto, which will basically take your money and tell you to get bent if you get into an accident, is expensive, probably on the order of $80 or more for your average piece of shit car.

    I'm guessing you've never been poor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  20. #340
    I make around 900 euros a month atm. Around 800 after taxes from my part-time job (12euros/hour) and around 50-200 euros a month from freelance, though some months it might be less or nil.

    Used to make way over 2k a month working full-time + freelance but with the current economical situation I was forced to either be unemployed or work part-time (4h per day) with some freelance work on the side.

    My rent is 460 euros a month so that leaves around 400-450ish euros a month (13-15 euros a day) for food+electricity/internet//car-insurance/phone-bills. I can live off it just fine. Heck I used to live off it even better in my old shared apartment where the rent was only 340 a month :P

    Once I get back to school after the summer I will have to live off a lot less than now unless I get some more freelance-work :P
    Last edited by Drunkenfinn; 2013-01-04 at 08:03 AM.

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