View Poll Results: Should we Kill Sylvanas instead of Garrosh?

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  • Yes

    53 26.50%
  • No

    147 73.50%
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  1. #281
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    People gave clear reasons why sylvanas does not deserve anything but you brush them away by saying you are all lordaeron fanboys even though some of them do not even play the alliance or care about an alliance lordaeron.

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    It's war. Everything works in love and war.
    You must be BFF with Garrosh then .

  3. #283
    Dreadlord Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    i didnt say sylvanas derserved anything either, im just pointing out that the majority of people are saying sylvanas deserves death and whatnot because they are biased towards the notion of a human controlled lordaeron
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  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawless Jones View Post
    i didnt say sylvanas derserved anything either, im just pointing out that the majority of people are saying sylvanas deserves death and whatnot because they are biased towards the notion of a human controlled lordaeron
    People want her dead because her goals ultimately conflict with those of Thrall's Horde and the Alliance.
    Thralls Horde was always one of people who were looked down upon who wanted to show they weren't people hell bent on killing everything and it's hard to achieve this goal when the Forsaken are in their midst.

  5. #285
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    We still need a full story on Sylvanas. I have read about her and she's one of my favourite characters.
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  6. #286
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    silvanaz is getting killed by garrosh during the raid in orgrimmar .. and the latter will be killed by King Varian Wrynn short after ..

    Dunno what you guys are talking about .

  7. #287
    the alliance fanboys are at it again.. the undead have no means of procreating.. thats why they raise undead using valkyr's.. to keep from thinning their ranks..
    the undead use the plague because they are physically weak.. they have almost no means of fighting 1v1 combat so their only logical defense is to use a deadly poison that they are immune to. this is really no different then having an orc chop someone to bits with an axe.. death is death.. however u come across it we can all agree that different races have different means of execution.

    the real question is why dont we kill any of the alliance leaders? none of them are remotely exciting except kid beater Varian..... they could use a thinning of the ranks in the alliance.. get rid of that old man Greymanee.. he just sits around stormwind whining about Gilneas all day.. take old yeller out behind the shed and shoot him.
    Last edited by announced; 2013-01-04 at 11:22 AM.

  8. #288
    False dichotomy. Replace "instead of" with "along with" and I'm in.
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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    the alliance fanboys are at it again.. the undead have no means of procreating.. thats why they raise undead using valkyr's.. to keep from thinning their ranks..
    the undead use the plague because they are physically weak.. they have almost no means of fighting 1v1 combat so their only logical defense is to use a deadly poison that they are immune to.

    the real reason is why dont we kill any of the alliance leaders? none of them are remotely exciting except kid beater Varian..... they could use a chopping of the ranks in the alliance..
    Spoken as a true horde fanboy .

    Ouououou.

    Cant wait to kill those 2 useless chars by myself , once and for all.

  10. #290
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    Sylvanas > Mad and red brain-dead orc.

    Sorry :x

  11. #291
    As an alliance player I wouldnt shed a tear over Sylvanas' death. But atm I'm too interested in what would happen when Alleria comes back into the picture

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    the alliance fanboys are at it again.. the undead have no means of procreating.. thats why they raise undead using valkyr's.. to keep from thinning their ranks..
    the undead use the plague because they are physically weak.. they have almost no means of fighting 1v1 combat so their only logical defense is to use a deadly poison that they are immune to. this is really no different then having an orc chop someone to bits with an axe.. death is death.. however u come across it we can all agree that different races have different means of execution.

    the real question is why dont we kill any of the alliance leaders? none of them are remotely exciting except kid beater Varian..... they could use a thinning of the ranks in the alliance.. get rid of that old man Greymanee.. he just sits around stormwind whining about Gilneas all day.. take old yeller out behind the shed and shoot him.
    What kind of stupid justifier is this? Forsaken kill people in and out of lordaeron lands. Many whom did nothing against forsaken. They kill them and raise them against their own will. Same thing that the scourge did. Did we say 'o the poor scourge just wants to be alive' ?

  13. #293
    I despise Sylvanas, and the things she does and how she justifies them.
    But do I want to see her dead? HELL NO. Story-wise, she's one of the most interesting characters in WoW, and her presence is sure to shake things up and create new stories. Why would I want her gone?

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakushi View Post
    But atm I'm too interested in what would happen when Alleria comes back into the picture
    That is probably the only reason I would have for delaying her demise.
    Even then I get the feeling that their reunion will be slightly predictable.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by DireDragoness View Post
    This is just my personal opinion: Lets kill them both. They're both f***in annoying.
    Agree, but if i had to choose one of them, i would kill garrosh
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  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakushi View Post
    As an alliance player I wouldnt shed a tear over Sylvanas' death. But atm I'm too interested in what would happen when Alleria comes back into the picture
    Honestly I've given up hope on Alleria ever having a story.

    Sylvanas needs to die, but we're to busy having fun with pandas for that to happen. There has been rumors about a burning legion expansion next, so I'd imagine she'd get butchered then. She does need to die, and it needs to be done by Tirion. She's doing the same exact shit as Lich King, yet she's still alive? Fuck that. Bitch needs to die. She only aligned with the Horde to get Arthas, now that he is out of the picture she's just like her own faction. Shit if she had enough time she'd probably try to to raise enough of the dead to take out the Horde.

    I know that wouldn't happen, for balancing issues in WoW. But she needs to go.

  17. #297
    Dreadlord Kaj392's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think Varian made it clear with the Battle for the Undercity that he wants to reclaim Lordaeron, Stormwind is pretty much still in debt because of the 1st / 2nd War.
    Well, in the text during the Battle for Undercity nothing has been said about retaking Undercity. More about taking revenge for what happened at Wrathgate.


    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Call_to_Arms

    "The land would make a decent spot for a new Undercity in its place. "
    "In the game's third expansion, Galen Trollbane becomes one of the Forsaken. What this may bode for the kingdom is yet to be seen. However, Skuerto, who resides at Refuge Point, says that "I'm sick of sittin' in this hole. I hope whatever sorry pencil-pusher is holdin' up Danath's return gets a punch in the jimmies." This implies that Danath Trollbane, Thoras Trollbane's nephew, may return from Outland to take over the leadership of Stromgarde."
    Just because some random Forsaken said that it would make a excellent spot, doesn't mean that it will actually become a new Undercity.



    No,no.

    They get ressurected into UNDEATH and then get the choice, join the Forsaken or die once again.
    That's what ive been saying >.<
    They get ressurected>they are asked if they want to join. Yes; welcome to the Forsaken. No; go back to your grave.



    "With the Divine Bell, I will burn away any remnants of weakness within us. Fear... despair... hatred... doubt. The lesser races are buried beneath their weight. But WE will control their power."

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Breath...%28Alliance%29

    In the end of the Horde version he speaks about that the weak cannot control the Sha but he WILL master it.
    With the Divine bell he wants to let his warriors control their emotions yes. But you forget that the bell shatters and that, what really is the 'final' is that which is happening in RFC.
    Mastering the whole 'no emotions' isn't really 'plague evil'.



    "As she realized that this realm of anguish was to be her eternity, the val'kyr appeared to her again. Led by Annhylde the Caller, they offered the Dark Lady a pact: instead of allowing Sylvanas to reside eternally in this terrifying realm, Annhylde offered to take her place if she binds herself to the remaining val'kyr; a powerful vessel through which they can continue to exist as more than slaves, their fates intertwined. "

    "Sylvanas realized that her people were no longer simply arrows in her quiver, but an important resource that would not be squandered."

    Which great sees his own people as "resource"?

    The Vision made it clear to her that she has to stop Garrosh from using the Forsaken as fodder because she can't get replcement quickly.

    And now stealing this quote from checking facts:

    "They were a bulwark against the infinite. They were to be used wisely, and no fool orc would squander them while she still walked the world of the living."
    I'm sorry, i couldn't find anything about her saying about 'important resource'.

    "The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore."
    And then comes your part yes.
    I find this part a bit unclear to be honest, seeing how this 'army' could also mean the Val'kyr. But let's say they are indeed the Forsaken army, that means instead of just mindless zerging the wall like they were doing she has a plan to actually use them as a army instead of meat bags so the Orcs would have less casualty.
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  18. #298
    I play Alliance. And in discussions like this, all I care about is the overall WoW lore and not some stupid arguments the one faction should've more areas in game. (Hopefully Dalaran never becomes updated to a truly Alliance only version, hated that place in WotLK.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    People want her dead because her goals ultimately conflict with those of Thrall's Horde and the Alliance.
    Thralls Horde was always one of people who were looked down upon who wanted to show they weren't people hell bent on killing everything and it's hard to achieve this goal when the Forsaken are in their midst.
    1. "Thralls Horde" is no more and also, he aknowledged that the Horde needs a warrior type as leader. Thats why he even appointed Garrosh as new Warchief. That is the consequence of Alliance racism towards the Horde, even after the 3rd war.

    2. Garrosh ordered the attack on Gilneas. And even if, the different factions still have their own goals - Sylvanas wants all of Lordaeron, Gilneas and Hillsbrad were in her way. If I'd be her, I'd even wipe out the Frostwolves.
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  19. #299
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    First people accused the Forsaken of mind control, and after a dev cleared that nonsense he somehow managed to phrase his summary poorly, so now all the haters think it's 'join or die' with the newly-risen undead. Which is bullshit and ignores everything else the dev said as well as the Cata-revamped starting valley for the undead. It's 'join or die or just do whatever you freaking please, as long as you don't stand in our way'.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    So you want them to cease to exist after they got their vengeance? While LK was their primary goal, the Alliance threated them like shit since the moment their race appeared on Azeroth, even though they knew that they arent bound to the LKs will anymore. And honestly, even if they hated what they become it doesnt mean that they wont be satisfied with their transformation, the Forsaken who get ressed and dont go back into their graves are very well okay with it. Also, DKs dont seem to hate what LK made out of them, he wanted to use them as gun powder against Tirion, which they got their revenge for, but over all they're happy being DKs.
    Dk's are happy being Dk's?

    Life is losing much of it's purpose if you are undead, obviously the Forsaken as race had to continue else there wouldn't be the playable race left.

    Sylvanas made the example, Lk dead -> jumping off the Frozen Throne because her live lost the only purpose, then she realized the realm she would end up is pretty bad, so her new goal is not to die.

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    From any point of view, the Forsaken are the weakest because they cant reproduce. Compare them with:

    - Night Elves: used to be immortal, most of them are over 10,000 years old if not older. They got Priests and Druids (along with their demigods) sects on their side, which power they feed off. They call uppon tree soldiers during war - doubt those give a damn about some gas thrown at them.
    Night elves seemed to a have problem reproduction, there would be so many night elves if they actually grew as a race during those 10.000 Years, also reproduction is something that needs a lot of time to take an effect, Forsaken can reproduce as well with the Val'kyr, which is quicker as well.

    And ever looked at Southshore or EPL? The Scourge as well as Forsaken Plague has a devastating effect on nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    - Dreanei: I dont know if they're immortal, but if you travel 25,000 years through the galaxy you have kind of be so. With the Naaru and Velen on their side they arent exactly weak.
    The Forsaken are kind off Scourge 2.0, they kill something and revive it for their own purpose.


    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Could we stop accusing someone of war crimes? Its a purely objective thing in WoW - dont use RL logic on WoW. Also, Varimathras actually proved his loyalty by killing one of his brothers (thats a terrible no-go for Dreadlords).
    You mean Balnazzar?

    "Regrettably, Balnazzar is not yet finished. Defeating a dreadlord in the mortal plane only sends it back to the Twisting Nether. He will be back one day, perhaps even working again with his brothers, Varimathras and Detheroc."

    In the end, everything was set up, those Guys are the Masters of deceit and deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Using that logic, you could blame Thrall for leaving the Warchief position to Garrosh or any other similiar situation ever happened in WoW.
    Jaina blames Thrall for putting Garrosh in charge, just as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    What consequences other than death for the opposite faction are we actually talking about?
    Let's see, Forsaken use any kind of weapon to defeat their enemies, even if this weapon is terribly dangerous, could destroy nature, anything they worked for or even themselves.

    It's not something that would happen, it is something that already has happened.

    Sylvanas thought she could control Varimathras by "keeping him on the short leash", altough she had a powerful Dreadlord on her side, she got betrayed, nearly killed, her city was full of demons and she had to ask the Rest of the Horde for help to fix which lost ,because of Varimathras betrayal, Soldiers and the option of a coalition with the Alliance to defeat the Lich King, lastly their City is now guarded by Orcs which are 100% loyal to Garrosh because they are Kor'kron.

    Similiar thing happened in Silverpine, she ressurected Godfrey because she knew that the mere name of Godfrey terrified the Worgen, she used him and happened in the end? 3 dead Val'kyrs, a Bullet in her back and a traitor to hunt down.

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Actually, one of the few faction leaders who're doing something.
    Garrosh is doing something as well, is he liked by so many people because of that?

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Also, she fought against the LK 1v1 in WotLK
    Altough this event is non cannon, it is great that you bring this up.

    "Uther the Lightbringer says: You cannot defeat the Lich King. Not here. You would be a fool to try. He will kill those who follow you and raise them as powerful servants of the Scourge. But for you, Sylvanas, his reward for you would be worse than the last."

    2minutes later

    "Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: You will not escape me that easily, Arthas! I will have my vengeance!"

    How you call someone who performs such a move?

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    using the Plague as a weapon is the most efficient way to not waste more of her already low population.
    Drek'Thar says: They ravage the land and destroy everything that they touch. How many lives have been lost to their vile poisons?
    Drek'Thar says: How many innocents have fallen before the Forsaken war machine?

    The Plague is not a weapon to defeat your enemy, it is a weapon to utterly destroy anything of him, no matter if it's involved in the conflict or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Doubt is more honorable to get killed by a mace breaking your head or an arrow penetrating your body over being turned into slime by the Plague. Forsaken are different than your usual living race and she wouldnt have to bolster her defenses if humans accepted them as what they are.
    Human see the Forsaken similiar as the Scourge, and currently i cannot fully tell the difference between those 2 factions in terms of morale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I wouldn't say that tbh.
    Before the Val'kyr it's made pretty clear the Forsaken would've otherwise been defeated.
    Now with the Val'kyr they're stronger but still not strong enough. They were barely able to hold their own against a group of Worgen Survivors and had to resort to using not military based methods (Blackmail/Threaten) to attain what is a temporary victory. On top of this Sylvanas has shown to fear the idea of the Humans making a full on counter attack as evidenced by her pleas to Garrosh during ToW.

    Th Forsaken are definitely stronger than they once were but I still don't think they're as strong as the other races. So far their attacks have very much been sudden large scale shock and awe attacks, and now that the Humans are fully aware of what they up against they'll be prepared.
    They could have killed any Worgen in Silverpine just with the Plague, but Garrosh left Cromush so that Forsaken won't use this, the Forsaken Plague is pretty much the Joker Card.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj392 View Post
    Well, in the text during the Battle for Undercity nothing has been said about retaking Undercity. More about taking revenge for what happened at Wrathgate.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:A_Royal_Coup

    They have lost the Undercity? Then the time to strike is now. We will deal with Putress ourselves and retake the Ruins of Lordaeron for the Alliance!

    King Varian Wrynn says: Look around you, brothers and sisters. Open your eyes! Look at what they have done to our kingdom!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj392 View Post
    "In the game's third expansion, Galen Trollbane becomes one of the Forsaken. What this may bode for the kingdom is yet to be seen. However, Skuerto, who resides at Refuge Point, says that "I'm sick of sittin' in this hole. I hope whatever sorry pencil-pusher is holdin' up Danath's return gets a punch in the jimmies." This implies that Danath Trollbane, Thoras Trollbane's nephew, may return from Outland to take over the leadership of Stromgarde."
    Just because some random Forsaken said that it would make a excellent spot, doesn't mean that it will actually become a new Undercity.
    Obviously it's not safe that the Forsaken will take Stromgarde, yet the incursion into Arathi Highlands and this quote proves that they show strong interest in a land which does not belong to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj392 View Post
    That's what ive been saying >.<
    They get ressurected>they are asked if they want to join. Yes; welcome to the Forsaken. No; go back to your grave.
    Personally i would have preferred "Just leave me dead" option, yet that's not a possbility.

    Most persons aren't happy with being ressurected by the forsaken at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj392 View Post
    With the Divine bell he wants to let his warriors control their emotions yes. But you forget that the bell shatters and that, what really is the 'final' is that which is happening in RFC.
    Mastering the whole 'no emotions' isn't really 'plague evil'.
    Again, Garrosh said that he wants to control the Sha even without the Bell.

    It is evil because the Sha are a weapon that sooner or later consumes those that use it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj392 View Post
    I'm sorry, i couldn't find anything about her saying about 'important resource'.

    "The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore."
    It is directly taken from wowpedia, should have made this clear.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj392 View Post
    And then comes your part yes.
    I find this part a bit unclear to be honest, seeing how this 'army' could also mean the Val'kyr. But let's say they are indeed the Forsaken army, that means instead of just mindless zerging the wall like they were doing she has a plan to actually use them as a army instead of meat bags so the Orcs would have less casualty.
    She realized that there won't be any Forsaken left if Garrosh will use them for his war, that's why she steps in, because if there are no Forsaken, there won't be something to protect her.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2013-01-04 at 03:24 PM.
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