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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire
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    Alliance and Horde Switching Leadership Styles

    Throughout Mists we have and have been promised more of Varian becoming "High King" of the Alliance. Basically Military leader and leader of forces for the Alliance, while the other leaders would have some input. Over on the Horde side we see all these leaders with their own agendas spraining out of the ground with Garrosh's fall inevitable. So do we see a Horde Council of sorts rising along with a single Alliance leader? Will we see the Horde's warcheif become the Alliance's High King? And the Alliance's council become the Horde's warchief? Or will it all balance out into a single military leader but imput from all the others for both sides? What government styles do you think the fractions will end up as in the end of Mists?

  2. #2
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    when was there an Alliance "war council" or whatever?
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    when was there an Alliance "war council" or whatever?
    Before 5.1 Alliance leaders didnt call Varian their High King. And they always had some sort of council, like in 4.0 (before the Cataclysm happened). Varian never had full control over the forces of the whole Alliance.
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  4. #4
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    I've said this, to a degree, since the plot developed though cata and into mists.

    In the past, since WC3 though to wrath, it felt like the alliance was only held together by convenience without any true defacto commander or leader to lead it, and each faction was stand alone almost, where as the horde was held together due to having a leader that banded it together for survival.

    Looking at it now, they have perpetually forced the image of those roles reversed, now the alliance is being lead by a defacto leader and all the other leaders answer to him, well the horde is divided in its leadership and each race and leader has its own agenda.

    I dislike it how it is, but guess have to wait and see how things shift come the end of mists and into the next expac.

  5. #5
    Are we sure that the Horde is getting a council? They may have to have a Mak'gora tournament to see who gets lead, for all we know...

  6. #6
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooootles View Post
    Are we sure that the Horde is getting a council? They may have to have a Mak'gora tournament to see who gets lead, for all we know...
    anyone who claims they think its a council is just speculating like the rest.

    But one thing I can tell you, since one of the blue posts, either metzen or another of the creative devs, revealed that whoever the next warchief is, they will deal with Sylvanas and her wicked ways.
    If the next warchief is going to have the power to do that, then it won't be on a council basis, and the horde will still be lead by a defacto leader. I mean seriously, if the alliance is set to be lead by someone who banded the alliance together, what hope would the horde have to be lead by a council, unless the council figurehand has enough power to govern them all.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    Put all the faction leaders in an arena, the one who steps out alive is the leader.

    /popcorn

  8. #8
    Considering that Thrall and now Garrosh have such strong leadership presences (in terms of them being involved in the storyline) and the Alliance leadership was next to nil prior to Varian coming into such power, it's actually a welcome change.

    In terms of the Horde leadership vastly changing by the end of this expansion, that's pretty much a given; I do think however, that the information they've given us is a bit of a red herring. I don't think Garrosh will be the only one to blame, in other words. There will have to be some sort of monkey wrenches thrown into the mix before we see a resolution.

  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Atm they are as much as I dislike it.
    Varian is becoming a bit of a black hole for Alliance Leader development. He's also being bigged up as our Military Leader while the rest of the leaders are either doing nothing or in Tyrande's case acting like an idiot.
    The Horde on the other hand is branching out due to Garrosh's leadership. The other leaders want to start taking matters into their own hands and as such are getting the appropriate development to cover this.

    So yeah the leader development has been reversed. Hopefully in the future we will see some variety on the Alliance side of things.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    And they always had some sort of council, like in 4.0 (before the Cataclysm happened).
    it was a meeting between leaders, the same thing the Horde had at the same time

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-04 at 10:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    But one thing I can tell you, since one of the blue posts, either metzen or another of the creative devs, revealed that whoever the next warchief is, they will deal with Sylvanas and her wicked ways.
    .
    uhhh...no they didnt

    They merely raised the question on that matter, they didnt answer it.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I've said this, to a degree, since the plot developed though cata and into mists.

    In the past, since WC3 though to wrath, it felt like the alliance was only held together by convenience without any true defacto commander or leader to lead it, and each faction was stand alone almost, where as the horde was held together due to having a leader that banded it together for survival.

    Looking at it now, they have perpetually forced the image of those roles reversed, now the alliance is being lead by a defacto leader and all the other leaders answer to him, well the horde is divided in its leadership and each race and leader has its own agenda.

    I dislike it how it is, but guess have to wait and see how things shift come the end of mists and into the next expac.
    Varian is not a de facto (in practice and not official) leader. He has been appointed as leader of the Alliance by all the other racial leaders. On the other hand, the Warchief of the Horde is so because he is the leader of the Orcs. No racial leader has had to accept or to appoint Garrosh in such a position. He was put in this position because Thrall, in his infinite wisdom, thought he would be the best leader, and all other leaders had to shut their mouths and accept it.

    About the OP, I think the transformation will not be much about leadership, but about what is the Horde. In a way, this is still the Orcish Horde. It's the Orcs and their friends. You get in the Horde by accepting the Orc Warchief as your warchief. Not so with the Alliance. With Garrosh poor government, it seems the other racial leaders finally want to say their word in the adminsitration of the Horde. It will not be only the Orcish Horde any more, but also the Tauren's Horde, the Trolls' Horde and so on.

    As for the Alliance, let's face it, they didn't have any formal leadership before WotLK. At long last, the Alliance chose a leader. The difference with the Horde is that he was chosen to be the High King. Varian is not High King of the Alliance only because he is the King of Stormwind. So even if the Alliance is now lead by a central figure, the High King still has to answer to the other racial leaders that put him in this place. So a "council" will remain.
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  12. #12
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Varian is not Garrosh. Garrosh is unstable, out for domination, and rules alone with an iron, authoritarian fist.

    Varian is a balanced strategist who's role is not to lead for domination but to command the defense of Pandaria from Garrosh.
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  14. #14
    I am Murloc! Wildberry's Avatar
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    As a long time horde player, I absolutely cannot stand the idea of any sort of "Horde Council". Even back in WCII where Lothar was Supreme Commander of the Alliance, the Alliance still had their distinct personalities (Quel'Thalas, Gilneas, and Lordaeron really stand out here). While up until MoP, the Horde always had an "über alles!" feel to it, which felt right for the Horde, swearing loyalty to the Warchief, not this alliance of convenience gig that Sylvanas, and lately Lor'themar seem to be pulling.

  15. #15
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Varian is not Garrosh. Garrosh is unstable, out for domination, and rules alone with an iron, authoritarian fist.

    Varian is a balanced strategist who's role is not to lead for domination but to command the defense of Pandaria from Garrosh.
    ah but Varian wasn't always so. those who were there in wrath days will remember a pumped up, irrational and often loose cannon, who's only thought was to eliminate all orcs.

    Compared to the varian we see now it's an obvious shift and shows a character who matured.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Varian is a balanced strategist who's role is not to lead for domination but to command the defense of Pandaria from Garrosh.
    stopping the Horde from claiming Pandaria by claiming it for the Alliance?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral TheCrusader's Avatar
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    with the latest developments i can see a horde council more clearly ...
    the horde is becoming fractured ... most of the races within the horde have their own agenda that isn't working with the others ...
    i think that those differences will grow to such an extend, that a single individual cannot keep it all together.
    my guess therefore would be: after garrosh is down, Bloodhoof, Vol'Jin, Sylvanas and Lorthemar (also of course the orcs and goblins) will send out representatives that will act in a council like manner to coordinate the hordes movement and future war effort, thus ensuring that every race can keep their own agenda.

    wherease the alliance on the other hand clearly tend to swearing total allegence to the Humans and their battle-proven king. I would imagine Varian (although i don't like him, also i'm alliance player) becoming the supreme ruler of the alliance with a "lord"-like figure in each races capitol.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Vellerix View Post
    Put all the faction leaders in an arena, the one who steps out alive is the leader.

    /popcorn
    Tyrande gets out alive, as she is the chosen of Elune, the goddess herself makes sure that her chosen doesnt come to any mortal harm. Like the time she was trapped in Azshara's Palace and Lady Vashj wanted to torture her.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    stopping the Horde from claiming Pandaria by claiming it for the Alliance?
    He makes it clear the moment he reunites with Anduin they're there to protect it from Garrosh. It also explains the name Operation: Shieldwall.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    stopping the Horde from claiming Pandaria by claiming it for the Alliance?
    Unless there's some ICC-style plot schism where one side shows a conflicting storyline from the other, the Alliance's presence in Pandaria is almost purely a defensive reaction against the Horde's invasion. I have heard there is some of that in 5.0 as from the Alliance POV, Horde landed and started building bases before the Alliance's ships ever made it to shore.
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