1. #1

    Another trinket thread, sorry guys. :)

    Hi.
    First, I know that trinkets provide the same amount of stat, not depending on whether it's primary or secondary stat.

    So I easily understand that CCCC < Carbuncle, CCCC < Relic and CCCC < Skullrender Medallion.
    What I don't understand is why CCCC is so bad while Lei Shen's Orders is supposed to be very good.
    Is it because of the proc? I find that CCCC procs frequently though.
    Is it because of the ilvl?

    I currently have CCCC, LFR Lei Shen's Orders, LFR Vortex, Skullrender Medallion and I will have Relix of Xuen sunday. (I also have Lessons of the Darkmaster, but Carbuncle won't drop...)
    So, I understood that I should equip Relic of Xuen and Medallion.
    Fine.
    But what should I equip in challenge modes? I didn't find any BiS list for challenge mode.
    I'd guess the best combination is Medallion/Carbuncle. Is it right, or is Medallion/Relic better?

    Anyway, I'm going to try som gold runs before sunday, so without Relic of Xuen. Supposing that I don't loot Carbuncle by then, what should I equip?
    Is CCCC really worse than LFR Vortex or LFR Lei Shen's Orders for Challenge modes?
    Last edited by Senen; 2013-01-03 at 09:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
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    According to AMR for normal: Ghost Iron Dragonling* > Skullrender > Lei Shen > Lessons > Carbuncle > CCCC > Lie Shen LFR > Relic > Vortex > Vortex LFR.
    *not quite sure of this, seems to be ranked extremely high compared to last I checked. o.O

    As for your question, I believe it's because of the procc, the nice amount of haste you can reforge doesn't hurt either. The best answer is to sim it.
    Last edited by Treelife; 2013-01-03 at 09:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    According to AMR for normal: Ghost Iron Dragonling* > Skullrender > Lei Shen > Lessons > Carbuncle > CCCC > Lie Shen LFR > Relic > Vortex > Vortex LFR.
    *not quite sure of this, seems to be ranked extremely high compared to last I checked. o.O
    I'm pretty sure the Ghostling is a mistake. I don't believe I've seen it on anyone's BIS list.

  4. #4
    Cataclysm taught to never trust Mr Robot.
    Not to mention that it don't answer to my question and that this order is highly discutable.

    Anyway, I'm not sure how to sim all these trinkets for challenge modes so I was hoping someone who really understand why theorycrafters cam up with this order to explain a bit.

  5. #5
    AMR uses quite strange stat wights, so once you fix those based on a simcraft run it becomes more accurate and dumps Dragonling a lot lower in rating. Not sure how to account for this if you are trying to figure out what goes for challenge modes though.
    Last edited by Delath; 2013-01-03 at 09:47 PM.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Lei Shin's uptime is roughly ~40%, compared to CCCC which is terribly low.

  7. #7
    You want to check the relative value and not absolute value when comparing items with askmrrobot, and add your own statweights from simcraft to be sure.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    I think the reason that AMR values the ghost iron dragonling so highly is because of flawed logic: It's probably advising the 3 cogwheels in there to be crit/hit/expertise, and reforging to crit out of other stats, meaning the GID would be bringing the equivilant of 1800 crit, which would be huge. The problem, however, is that most gear you have should have crit on it already, meaning the only real gain would be in haste/mastery, which is worth far less than crit.

    This is the same line of reasoning that advised gemming pure hit/expertise at the start of the expac, to avoid having to reforge out of crit to get hit/expertise capped. At low gear levels it might be true. Now, it is not so much. Any time you are trying to figure out how much hit/expertise is worth on an item after you are already capped, you need to look at what you gain. Sometimes you may gain some crit, but most likely you'll only be getting mastery/haste/hit (above special cap).

  9. #9
    The only good thing about CCCC is the passive Crit. The Attack Power proc is both too short a duration (3-4 GCD) and too long an ICD to make it worthwhile. While Lei Shin's has passive haste (still a hefty amount of crit when reforged) , it has an incredibly high uptime and long duration (7-9 GCD) Strength proc, making it ideal to chain with other cooldowns. Thanks to Rhia for making me look into Lei Shin's again, though my warrior has no luck in getting LFR to drop gear whereas my dk in 2 weeks has gotten Starshatter, Shin'ka, Lei Shin's, 2x Ox Bracer (476 tank), 1x Protector's tank bracer, 1x 476 tank chest from Will and something else that I can't remember.

  10. #10
    Lei shen has extremely high up-time compared to CCCC, the diffrence is 25%. That is why Lei shen trinket is so good.

  11. #11
    Is LFR Lei Shen better than LFR Darkmist Vortex for SMF fury?

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    i'd say definitely

    since you can reforge the W(H)aste to Crit.
    they say that doors open up soon as you find the missing key
    that’s probably why I’m in this bitch shining
    jump up in the sky and put the stars into alignment
    I rep the ATF in case you need to be reminded
    and the bandwagon's full but you can try an' run behind it

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    Is LFR Lei Shen better than LFR Darkmist Vortex for SMF fury?
    Yes, definitely. You can get ~400 crit reforging LS.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Requiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    Is LFR Lei Shen better than LFR Darkmist Vortex for SMF fury?
    yes it is, darkmist is absolutely shit.

  15. #15
    Finally, I have looted Carbuncle yesterday before we start challenges, and this trinket is really awesome.
    I'm not sure if, after sunday, I'm going to use Medaillon/Carbuncle or Medallion/Relic, though. Probably the first one.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    I'm pretty sure the Ghostling is a mistake. I don't believe I've seen it on anyone's BIS list.
    It actually is quite accurate (as AMR always is in my experience).
    When you look at absolute values ghostling will always scores highest. Absolute value bases his ranking as if you were completly naked. and then obviously a trinket with 600hit/crit/exp will score highest as the stat weight for exp and hit will be incredibly high.

    simply said: always look at relative score (uses your current gear to decide what is best), dont use the absolute score.
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