Nerf arcane?

[mrgreenthump]

but people who hate Arcane and Frost can't really cry that Fire is broken because if they play it correctly they still won't be at the bottom of the meters, they probably won't be topping it (RNG is still RNG after all) but they almost certainly won't be at the bottom. If you're in a competitive group and this is the case then please, explain to me how Fire is therefore 'unviable' given the conditions I've outlined?

That is a valid point atm, but what abt when 5.2 rolls around and there is a patchwerk fight, or fights that are mainly single target with rather small ammount of movement and a very tight enrage. From my personal perspective, I just simply cant justify going fire.. At least until they smooth the difference bethween bad rng and good rng, not getting crits for 30 secs during Hero will just trash your dreams of reaching any type of really tight enrage as fire. Now I'm all in for the specs being somewhat level. But atm its just not the case. In every situation 1 is clearly ahead of the others. And that inturn means as a raider, we got to change specs for each fight. And I dont really like that aspect.. At least when the gear we need for each spec seems to be different for each spec in the next patch.

[Deleted]

That is a valid point atm, but what abt when 5.2 rolls around and there is a patchwerk fight, or fights that are mainly single target with rather small ammount of movement and a very tight enrage. From my personal perspective, I just simply cant justify going fire.. At least until they smooth the difference bethween bad rng and good rng, not getting crits for 30 secs during Hero will just trash your dreams of reaching any type of really tight enrage as fire. Now I'm all in for the specs being somewhat level. But atm its just not the case. In every situation 1 is clearly ahead of the others. And that inturn means as a raider, we got to change specs for each fight. And I dont really like that aspect.. At least when the gear we need for each spec seems to be different for each spec in the next patch.

Point taken; but if you are CLOSE to the enrage as Fire, there's little harm in carrying on, especially if you aren't bottom of the meters. Yes, again, from a personal point of view I would raid with whatever is optimal; but some have preferences and will stick to them.

[announced]

arcane doesnt need a nerf.. it needs a buff.. or atleast to other aspects of it.. make barrage do 25% more base dmg so using it will actually make sense.. 6camping worked because get this... BARRAGE WAS FUCKING USELESS... aside from wind lord and massive aoe fights (like trash).. no1 had any incentive to push barrage. unless they wanted to be bad.. plus with the horrible ramp up time of casting 6 abs just to return to where u are (approx 10 seconds).. blizz neeeds to get their heads outta their asses and fix arcane so its a more freestyle rotation. Wasnt it a players choice on how to dps? now they are taking it away.. how sad.. before you could 6charge camp or clear, now its just clear. Frost isnt viable in single target dps and fire is lol worthy unless u have near bis gear.. since arcane is getting castrated theres little incentive to play a mage at all nowadays.

[Deleted]

Mages top dps meter because we are a pure dps class. Mages cannot tank o heal they can only make dps. This is all.If you ask to nerf them because class that can tank o heal o dps, dont top dps meters, you simple dont know game. Hybrids can join at raid as tank/healers or dps, if a pure dps class make same damage of a hybrid class, why a raid leader must take a pure dps and not a hybrid ?

Mages are as all dps class, we choice spec that give us the majors chance to top meters and find spots in core raids. Want change us play style,make it different, no problems. But we cannot be penalizated because people dont know how play their class o want top dps meters rading a time a week without enchant o gem their gear

[spaace]

Affliction warlocks, assassination rogues, fury warriors, shadow priests, windwalker monks and arcane mages scale so much, they basically make everything else look shitty to play..


Also, 6 hybirds do better dps then 2 of 3 mage(warlock, hunter too) specs if anybody is wondering.

[Bullettime]

The current Scorch Arcane playstyle with 6 stack camping is an unintended side effect and is resulting in higher than intended damage. The nerf to Scorch should be enough to force Arcane back down to where it's intended to be as it kills the playstyle causing the issue. The issue isn't Arcane itself.

[Alphamage]

Also just your opinion, I for one am enjoying the current playstyle of arcane with scorch weaving, as someone who really enjoyed cata arcane and resented the thought of charge dumping I was relieved to find this as a viable playstyle.

It is actually not my opinion. It is Blizzard's opinion and every Mage knows that Arcane was not made to work like that even if it is viable. It is just a clever use of game mechanics that made it possible for Arcane Mages to maintain 6 charges all the time while keeping their mana pool high. Blizzard changed the Arcane charges from 4 that it used to be up to 6 just because they didn't want Mages to use only Arcane Blasts. I loved it having 8 instant pyroblast! in a row and a 3million Combustion but it shouldn't work like that.(3million total combustion dmg, not per tick)

[announced]

The current Scorch Arcane playstyle with 6 stack camping is an unintended side effect and is resulting in higher than intended damage. The nerf to Scorch should be enough to force Arcane back down to where it's intended to be as it kills the playstyle causing the issue. The issue isn't Arcane itself.

your joking right.. charge dumping is so shit compared to camping its around -20,000 dps or so in a movement fight.. frost isnt viable pve, fire is barely, and now arcane is going to be brought below fire.. or on par with its blizz forces u to only play arcane 1 way state.

[Alphamage]

your joking right.. charge dumping is so shit compared to camping its around -20,000 dps or so in a movement fight.. frost isnt viable pve, fire is barely, and now arcane is going to be brought below fire.. or on par with its blizz forces u to only play arcane 1 way state.

Ok, so just because you like doing high damage with less effort you say it should stay like this. Maybe Fire spec should get back the 100% combustion dmg and the 1.5 multiplier... but I guess you will no longer care what happens with Arcane.
Blizzard makes mistakes all time. They changed fire, now they change Arcane. I still play fire doing good because I like fire spec. If you like Arcane, I bet you will be able to do good dmg even with the new rotation.
If you are one of the "what makes more dps I follow" type of players, you will always be dissapointed.

[Nohara]

I dont mind a nerf, if it means I can to back to Fire. I prefer cata's Arcane any day over this piece of crap. In cata, yes, even with one button spam, some skill could make the difference, timing everything well etc. But now, urgh, the staying above 90% mana is just horribly dull. And dont start with Rune of Power, limiting you to move, and forcing you to cast it way to often.

Arcane should be about using mana wisely, but only using 10% feels stupid and limiting.

[Ethes]

They have already started killing the camping with the PTR thats out making scorch weaving not viable so they are doing that, fire is viable with gear and frost is getting a buff, for a pure dps class you would think they wouldnt mind a spec being the best in dps but I guess people are just idiots

I think this whole 'pure' dps class argument is the biggest nonsense. It's not like you'll bring a ret paladin or shadow priest so you can do the fight with 2 healers instead of 3. There will always be certain encounters that favor certain classes and as long as one class isn't clearly favored with a clear gap over the majority of the fights I don't see the issue. So in my opinion, arcane doesn't need a nerf. I'd like to see a viable frost raiding spec again though! I like frost!

[Teye]

It'll catch a nerf, right along with Affliction. Frost will become top spec, and people will be calling for nerfs for that. Once that gets nerfed, Warriors will be top spec. Then people will cry for nerfs for Fury. The cycle will continue, as it always has. Get used to it.

[Volitar]

Pure's are still top damage they just said the Hybrid tax is gone to shut people up.

[Deleted]

Agree. I have always believed that the pure DPS classes (Hunter, Mage, Warlock, Rogue) = DPS; hybrids = Utility. Though they should not completely destroy on meteres but stay competitive. I feel gimped as a character because of low DPS where as say a warrior/shaman/priest/monk/etc have the ability to switch to a completely different role.

When I look at Raidbots the top should be Hunter, Mage, Warlock, Rogue (not in this order).

IMO

As an elemental I'd agree if it wasn't that you pure DPS stole close to every single thing making us unique. You wanted hybrid utility then you should also accept that we want to be competitive on Dps.

You can't have it all, or well you can since pure DPS classes are almost always on top.

[mrgreenthump]

As an elemental I'd agree if it wasn't that you pure DPS stole close to every single thing making us unique. You wanted hybrid utility then you should also accept that we want to be competitive on Dps.

You can't have it all, or well you can since pure DPS classes are almost always on top.

Raid buffs =/utility. At least not the utility we are talking abt.

[Fennixx]

While mages argue if we should nerf our best spec (are they really mages?), locks stand united against any nerf. GoSac nerf is pitiful and wont change the fact:

- Aff can effectively dps on the move (KJC anyone?)/Arcane dps on the move is pathetic outside of 6 charge camping with AE;
- Locks can cheat movement penalty when using KJC (and Blizzard does nothing!)/arcane mages won't use scorch because "its not intended";
- Aff can AoE from ranged (lets not even mention ManFury)/Arcane is probably the only ranged class going to melee to AOE effectivelly;
- Aff doesn't have much burst/Arcane doesn't have much burst outside of 6 charge camping (which is being destroyed);
- Aff scales very well, so does arcane;
- Aff is not grounded (even if you take out KJC)/Arcane mage dps is completely balanced around Rune of Power (should we rename it Root of Power?)

Before they nerf arcane, Blizz should:
a) nerf Aff, which has no real weakness;
b) make frost scale better;
c) lessen fire's RNG. It's bad design nerfing a spec because we got better gear - "ya you got better gear, so we nerf you cuz its your fault you got better gear not ours for not fixing the friggin spec mechanics".

So yeah, before you create any "Nerf X mage spec" go to warlock forum and open a thread "Nerf Affliction" (a REAL nerf, not this GoSac nerf, which will be at most a 2.5% dps nerf)

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 04:47 PM ----------

As an elemental I'd agree if it wasn't that you pure DPS stole close to every single thing making us unique. You wanted hybrid utility then you should also accept that we want to be competitive on Dps.

You can't have it all, or well you can since pure DPS classes are almost always on top.

You can argue for Top3 as hybrid IF:

- they remove all heals, single target, AoE and raid heals, from dps specs;
- they lock your spec (be it dps, heals or tank) for the entire raid lockout once you kill a boss (ya if you want to dps like a pure, you should be restricted as one when it comes to raiding).

[spaace]

Arcane should be about using mana wisely, but only using 10% feels stupid and limiting.

Then instead of being a duck and following everyone, do your own thing.


Hello invocation.

Gonna be F U N in 5.2 when the forums explode of people QQing about mana.

[Methusula]

While mages argue if we should nerf our best spec (are they really mages?), locks stand united against any nerf. GoSac nerf is pitiful and wont change the fact:

- Aff can effectively dps on the move (KJC anyone?)/Arcane dps on the move is pathetic outside of 6 charge camping with AE;
- Locks can cheat movement penalty when using KJC (and Blizzard does nothing!)/arcane mages won't use scorch because "its not intended";
- Aff can AoE from ranged (lets not even mention ManFury)/Arcane is probably the only ranged class going to melee to AOE effectivelly;
- Aff doesn't have much burst/Arcane doesn't have much burst outside of 6 charge camping (which is being destroyed);
- Aff scales very well, so does arcane;
- Aff is not grounded (even if you take out KJC)/Arcane mage dps is completely balanced around Rune of Power (should we rename it Root of Power?)

Before they nerf arcane, Blizz should:
a) nerf Aff, which has no real weakness;
b) make frost scale better;
c) lessen fire's RNG. It's bad design nerfing a spec because we got better gear - "ya you got better gear, so we nerf you cuz its your fault you got better gear not ours for not fixing the friggin spec mechanics".

So yeah, before you create any "Nerf X mage spec" go to warlock forum and open a thread "Nerf Affliction" (a REAL nerf, not this GoSac nerf, which will be at most a 2.5% dps nerf)

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 04:47 PM ----------



You can argue for Top3 as hybrid IF:

- they remove all heals, single target, AoE and raid heals, from dps specs;
- they lock your spec (be it dps, heals or tank) for the entire raid lockout once you kill a boss (ya if you want to dps like a pure, you should be restricted as one when it comes to raiding).

Not gonna lie,I love the Root of Power thing.

[Malfecto]

Spaace, do you think it will be viable if invocation goes in as printed up now, with the 10% less damage, even though we can evo faster? I am referring to haste arcane style that you play (and I have been trying some). I feel like it will up our mobility, but I'm not sure if the few seconds less of channeling invo will make up for the 10% loss.

[Stache]

Yes, if you're min/maxing your damage as a whole, Fire doesn't compare to Arcane. Did I say that it did though? No, I did not. Voltaa's point is more what I was getting at: I'm playing Arcane at the moment as I care more about maximising output; but people who hate Arcane and Frost can't really cry that Fire is broken because if they play it correctly they still won't be at the bottom of the meters, they probably won't be topping it (RNG is still RNG after all) but they almost certainly won't be at the bottom. If you're in a competitive group and this is the case then please, explain to me how Fire is therefore 'unviable' given the conditions I've outlined?

You also seem to misread what I said about RoP, Invocation and IW. I said the following:

Which isn't untrue in the context I was speaking of; ie in terms of Arcane. I completely agree that RoP is optimal for Arcane; but if people dislike the RoP mechanic and, say, prefer IW; it's not impossible to use and pull good DPS with. The same goes for Invocation.

If you are in a raid and not performing to the peak of your playing abilities, you are holding your raid back. I don't know how things are going for your guild, but in every guild I've been in playing anything but the best spec means that you are dead weight.

Since dps isn't a factor for those who claim fire is still viable, maybe playing fire is still viable. Maybe it's also viable to raid with fishing poles on, since losing dps doesn't make you less capable.