1. #1

    Heroic will of the emperor 10m

    We will be attempting H WoE this week. Wanted some feedback on what the best way to handle the sparks are

    Here's our raid comp.

    Tank:
    DK
    Paladin

    Healer:
    Monk
    Druid
    Pally (if 3 heal)

    DPS:
    Warrior
    Lock
    Hunter
    Mage
    Priest
    Pally (if 2 heal)

    Couple of specific questions

    1. When do we start soaking sparks? 2nd set of adds?
    2. I know most guilds 2 heal but assuming enough dps is it viable to 3 heal?

    And most importantly
    3. What is the recommended rotation to soak sparks from rage, courage, strength?

    Would rather not use the spriest as a soaker bc he won't be raiding with us after this week and really want a strategy that would work even without him.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    I'd suggest using the cc tactic, if you feel like your dps is strong enough for it.

    You'll basically cc any set of rages that will spawn with a courage. If you do that then a hunter with CCHD can soak all the rage sparks with the 1min Deterrance.
    You should then use your priest to soak the courage sparks, starting with the second courage (First two are different, I'll get to it)
    And your mage on blinking the Strength sparks, with the lock as a backup if needed.

    So, this is how the fight works.
    You'll be getting 6 waves of rages at the start of the fight leading up to the first "catchup/bossnuke"-phase where it skips a wave of rages.
    After that there's 3 waves of rages inbetween every bossnuke-phase.
    You'll be getting 3? Strengts at the start, spawning at waves 1, 3/4, and 6.
    And two Courages, spawning at waves 2 and 5.

    Now the start of the fight is a crapton more annoying, and I'd suggest only ccing the 5th wave and then dealing with the courage. Use your tanks to soak the first two waves of rages, then use hunter on 3rd, readiness hunter on 4th, cc 5th and aoe+hunter soaking all 4 on 6th.
    Blinking the strength sparks isn't hard and its all about them taking a second or so to actually explode and your mage will just have to learn it, run with cauterize as a backup and trade in the warlock if needs be.
    Courage soaking is also a bit off in the start, I'd suggest trying to make sure the first one dies in the vicinity of the 2nd set of rages so the tank can eat that one too, lets you save the priests soak until the 2nd courage.

    Right! With the shitty part out of the way, the rest of the fight, following the bossnuke-phase is this:
    Kill 1 Wave of Rages, Strength spawns
    CC 1 Wave of Rages, Courage spawns
    Kill 2 Wave of Rages, Strength spawns
    Bossnuke

    Hunter will be soaking all of those rages, Mage both the strengths and Priests dispersion will be up for every Courage.

    Rinse repeat that 3 times then it stops giving you bossnuke-phases and you have to stay alive until the boss is dead, preferably by ccing like crazy when the boss is at low health.

    Good Luck.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    First off, please try to scroll back 3-4 pages - there are like 5 threads on that topic already which answer pretty much all your questions.

    With a DK Tank, you don't need to 3 Heal it. Don't even try it please. Killing the Adds is tough, you can't afford a 3rd healer, nor do you need one. Your DK should aim to stack Bloodshield during the Combos and to not let it drop of. I have 30-40k HPS on this fight and require almost no heal (just some hots so im topped off when combo ends). It will take your DK 3-4 Tries to figure it out CD wise, but after that he should be able to tank it with almost no heal required. If he can't, get a new DK.

    Get either your Warrior or you Pally to tank the Strength. I would recommend Pally, since Warrior is superb for slowing and stunning the adds. Plus you will need the damage when Adds and Courage spawn together.

    I wouldn't recommend the CC strat. Tried it, didn't like it. Hard to pull off without DK for AoE Grip. Hunter + Shadow can take every Add wave, so you don't even need to CC.

    1st Rage DK Tank
    2nd Rage Pally Tank
    1st Strength your Off-Prot Tank
    1st Courage DK Tank
    3rd Rage Off-Warri with all his CDs, works like a charm
    -
    4th Rage Hunter (talented 1min deterance)
    5th Rage Shadow (dispersion)
    6th Rage Hunter (talented 1min deterance)
    -
    Rinse / Repeat Hunter/Shadow from above. After that for Strength / Courages:

    For Strength Sparks, your Pally takes all. You can even have him go Prot and tank it with Damage Gear if needed, you have enough Ranged to help out on DPS on the strength if needed. Also helps with the Courage, since they will most likely target the Prot Pally on the Strength instead of the 2 Tanks and so you dont have problems with devastating arc in your raid.

    For Courage Sparks, either your Warlock or you Mage can take all. Mage with Blink/Cauterize or Ice-Block, Warlock with Teleport or Dark Bargain.
    Every Ranged goes to Courage everytime, 70% glyphed Slow from Warlock. Have Warrior+DPS who needs to detonate finish the Rages if spawns overlap with Rages/Courage.

    Either Warlock or Mage (The one who is not doing Courage Sparks) and your Resto Druid with symbioses on Mage can detonate sparks which seperated from the group (i.e. if you kill the rages badly and your designated bomb-squad can't get them both)

    ---

    i advice you to learn the fight with your shadow, even if he leaves next week. your warlock can take the shadow slot too in that rotation but its a bit harder and more heal intensive. so for learning purposes i would suggest going with the shadow and switching to warlock once you have killed it.

    ---

    Most of the fight is learning how to take the sparks, when to let them explode and how to time your shit. Also, try to always kill the 2 rages together so you dont have problems with detonation the sparks.

    You have to wait for the Sparks to spawn, then fly up in the air, then fly down again towards the player. When they fly down again you can let them explode. Try jumping into them, so you can reach them while they are flying down. Makes things alot easier. Use dispersion/detterance like 0.5 sec before you jump in the first spark dont burn it too soon our you might not be able to get both.

    for blink/teleport: You have to blink when a lightning comes from the top through the spark. Like when you jump into the spark, you have 0.5 sec to press blink. If you press to soon, the spark wont explode. Wait for the animation with the lightning and then blink. Takes 3-4 tries to master but after that, youre golden. Take cauterize so your mage has a safety net.

    --

    EDIT:

    Check out our kill vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2oKK...BTjXfw&index=3

    We used feral disperion + 2x shadow dispersion instead of hunter/shadow. Used hunter/shadow on our 2nd kill though and hunter/rogue on our 3rd. It basically doesn't matter.

    you can see how the mage does the courage sparks, how the first 6-7 adds get handled and all that.
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-01-04 at 10:42 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    First off, please try to scroll back 3-4 pages - there are like 5 threads on that topic already which answer pretty much all your questions.

    With a DK Tank, you don't need to 3 Heal it. Don't even try it please. Killing the Adds is tough, you can't afford a 3rd healer, nor do you need one. Your DK should aim to stack Bloodshield during the Combos and to not let it drop of. I have 30-40k HPS on this fight and require almost no heal (just some hots so im topped off when combo ends). It will take your DK 3-4 Tries to figure it out CD wise, but after that he should be able to tank it with almost no heal required. If he can't, get a new DK.

    Get either your Warrior or you Pally to tank the Strength. I would recommend Pally, since Warrior is superb for slowing and stunning the adds. Plus you will need the damage when Adds and Courage spawn together.

    I wouldn't recommend the CC strat. Tried it, didn't like it. Hard to pull off without DK for AoE Grip. Hunter + Shadow can take every Add wave, so you don't even need to CC.

    1st Rage DK Tank
    2nd Rage Pally Tank
    1st Strength your Off-Prot Tank
    1st Courage DK Tank
    3rd Rage Off-Warri with all his CDs, works like a charm
    -
    4th Rage Hunter (glyphed detterance)
    5th Rage Shadow (dispersion)
    6th Rage Hunter (glyphed detterance)
    -
    Rinse / Repeat Hunter/Shadow from above. After that for Strength / Courages:

    For Strength Sparks, your Pally takes all. You can even have him go Prot and tank it with Damage Gear if needed, you have enough Ranged to help out on DPS on the strength if needed. Also helps with the Courage, since they will most likely target the Prot Pally on the Strength instead of the 2 Tanks and so you dont have problems with devastating arc in your raid.

    For Courage Sparks, either your Warlock or you Mage can take all. Mage with Blink/Cauterize or Ice-Block, Warlock with Teleport or Dark Bargain.
    Every Ranged goes to Courage everytime, 70% glyphed Slow from Warlock. Have Warrior+DPS who needs to detonate finish the Rages if spawns overlap with Rages/Courage.

    Either Warlock or Mage (The one who is not doing Courage Sparks) and your Resto Druid with symbioses on Mage can detonate sparks which seperated from the group (i.e. if you kill the rages badly and your designated bomb-squad can't get them both)

    ---

    i advice you to learn the fight with your shadow, even if he leaves next week. your warlock can take the shadow slot too in that rotation but its a bit harder and more heal intensive. so for learning purposes i would suggest going with the shadow and switching to warlock once you have killed it.

    ---

    Most of the fight is learning how to take the sparks, when to let them explode and how to time your shit. Also, try to always kill the 2 rages together so you dont have problems with detonation the sparks.

    You have to wait for the Sparks to spawn, then fly up in the air, then fly down again towards the player. When they fly down again you can let them explode. Try jumping into them, so you can reach them while they are flying down. Makes things alot easier. Use dispersion/detterance like 0.5 sec before you jump in the first spark dont burn it too soon our you might not be able to get both.

    for blink/teleport: You have to blink when a lightning comes from the top through the spark. Like when you jump into the spark, you have 0.5 sec to press blink. If you press to soon, the spark wont explode. Wait for the animation with the lightning and then blink. Takes 3-4 tries to master but after that, youre golden. Take cauterize so your mage has a safety net.
    We just kill the first set of sparks because nothing else is up. Our mage went with greater invisibility to soak the sparks. I think you also mean talented deterrence. Glyphed just increases the damage reduction to 50% while talenting it reduces the CD to 1 minute.

    You can also have your resto druid symbiosis the hunter for deterrence in case he needs to soak on or two. Can be awesome if someone messes up and you need a backup or something.

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  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Yeah, meant talented deterrence, my bad. The one where you can reduce the CD to one minute. Greater Invis doesn't work for every courage sparks i think? Dunno really, but our mage just does it with blink/cauterize/iceblock. Works like a charm. Druid Symbioses on the hunter is the best choice - didnt think of that one.

    DK (Maintank) takes the first Sparks with IBF + AMS, takes literally only like 20% damage. Heals himself back up with DS so no Mana lost. We help our DK (Offtank) kill the Strength instead between the first and second rages, so dk can help out again on the second rages. It's more efficient than killing the first sparks in my opinion.
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-01-04 at 10:45 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Yeah, meant talented deterrence, my bad. The one where you can reduce the CD to one minute. Greater Invis doesn't work for every courage sparks i think? Dunno really, but our mage just does it with blink/cauterize/iceblock. Works like a charm. Druid Symbioses on the hunter is the best choice - didnt think of that one.

    DK (Maintank) takes the first Sparks with IBF + AMS, takes literally only like 20% damage. Heals himself back up with DS so no Mana lost. We help our DK (Offtank) kill the Strength instead between the first and second rages, so dk can help out again on the second rages. It's more efficient than killing the first sparks in my opinion.
    Our mage iceblock soaks one by having the person kite it into them. So really by taking greater invis you will have 2 soaking abilities.

    Well, if you look at it from that specific scenario without looking at the consequences per se. The strength dies so fast even after we kill the sparks, it doesn't matter. After that though the DK wont have CDs up for the boss and it will take 3 minutes to get the CD back, so he may be taking additional damage that could be mitigated from IBF so technically that is mana lost from using IBF at the beginning. However, different tactics work for different groups.

    Their hunter can soak every other rage set so they can have him grab the first if they feel like they are wasting damage on the sparks and/or don't want to waste tank CDs and have a tank take the second and then the hunter can take the third set. He also needs to learn to use disengage if he doesn't know how to already. Some sparks may be far away but he can disengage into them. If he's an engineer he can also pair it with the goblin glider to go even further to soak the adds.

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorlox View Post
    I'd suggest using the cc tactic, if you feel like your dps is strong enough for it.

    You'll basically cc any set of rages that will spawn with a courage. If you do that then a hunter with CCHD can soak all the rage sparks with the 1min Deterrance.
    You should then use your priest to soak the courage sparks, starting with the second courage (First two are different, I'll get to it)
    And your mage on blinking the Strength sparks, with the lock as a backup if needed.

    So, this is how the fight works.
    You'll be getting 6 waves of rages at the start of the fight leading up to the first "catchup/bossnuke"-phase where it skips a wave of rages.
    After that there's 3 waves of rages inbetween every bossnuke-phase.
    You'll be getting 3? Strengts at the start, spawning at waves 1, 3/4, and 6.
    And two Courages, spawning at waves 2 and 5.

    Now the start of the fight is a crapton more annoying, and I'd suggest only ccing the 5th wave and then dealing with the courage. Use your tanks to soak the first two waves of rages, then use hunter on 3rd, readiness hunter on 4th, cc 5th and aoe+hunter soaking all 4 on 6th.
    Blinking the strength sparks isn't hard and its all about them taking a second or so to actually explode and your mage will just have to learn it, run with cauterize as a backup and trade in the warlock if needs be.
    Courage soaking is also a bit off in the start, I'd suggest trying to make sure the first one dies in the vicinity of the 2nd set of rages so the tank can eat that one too, lets you save the priests soak until the 2nd courage.

    Right! With the shitty part out of the way, the rest of the fight, following the bossnuke-phase is this:
    Kill 1 Wave of Rages, Strength spawns
    CC 1 Wave of Rages, Courage spawns
    Kill 2 Wave of Rages, Strength spawns
    Bossnuke

    Hunter will be soaking all of those rages, Mage both the strengths and Priests dispersion will be up for every Courage.

    Rinse repeat that 3 times then it stops giving you bossnuke-phases and you have to stay alive until the boss is dead, preferably by ccing like crazy when the boss is at low health.

    Good Luck.
    Thanks for the input. Just to be clear, when you say 6 waves of rages at start of the fight, this includes the rages that spawn before the boss spawns?

    Does anyone know the actual time interval in between each rage, courage and strength spawns?

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    -- Fight starts --

    2 rages - 0:10 | kill
    1 strength - 0:25 |
    2 rages - 0:42 | kill
    1 courage - 1:00 |
    1 strength - 1:15 |
    2 rages - 1:15 | cc rages

    -- Boss Spawn --

    2 rages - 1:55 | kill all 4
    1 strength - 2:10 |
    2 rages - 2:27 | cc rages
    1 courage - 2:50 |
    1 strength - 3:00 |
    2 rages - 3:00 | kill all 4

    -- Burn Phase --

    Rinse & Repeat

    -----

    I edited in the cc bit, even though i dont think its actually better :-)
    After the above phase, its kill rages -> cc rages -> kill 4 rages.
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-01-04 at 11:37 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekked View Post
    Thanks for the input. Just to be clear, when you say 6 waves of rages at start of the fight, this includes the rages that spawn before the boss spawns?

    Does anyone know the actual time interval in between each rage, courage and strength spawns?
    I wish dbm/bigwigs would tell you outside of the fight. Sorry, I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    -- Fight starts --

    2 rages - 0:10 |
    1 strength - 0:25 |
    2 rages - 0:42 |
    1 courage - 1:00 |
    1 strength - 1:15 |
    2 rages - 1:15 |

    -- Boss Spawn --

    2 rages - 1:55 |
    1 strength - 2:10 |
    2 rages - 2:27 |
    1 courage - 2:50 |
    1 strength - 3:00 |
    2 rages - 3:00 |

    -- Burn Phase --

    Rinse & Repeat
    Ah this sums it up, thanks. So if you decide to kill the sparks at the beginning you have 15 seconds for everyone to dps down 2 rages and 2 sparks before the strength spawns. You have enough time to do it for sure.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2013-01-04 at 11:37 AM.

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  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    You're totally right Tehstool. It's doable and probably better. We couldn't do it though, Rages die shortly before Strength spawns (like 1 or 2 secs). Wouldn't work for us - so we didn't.

    What I do as DK Tank is -> Vampiric + BS + AMS the first 2 Sparks, heal me back up with DS on the Strength/rages. No Mana wasted. I then take the first Courage Spawn with BS + AMS again, heal me back up with DS. No Mana wasted. After that, Boss spawns and I pull with DRW + Vampiric + IBF + BS. I take literally 0 damage until Combo starts. And after that its just keeping DS up and cycling in your CDs.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12562&e=13234

    780k Reju, 530k Eternal Flame and about 1.5 Mio other Random Heal. Mainly to keep me topped off before Combo Ends. So that's 2.8 Mio Heal taken from Healers in the entire Fight.

  11. #11
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    We actually 3 tank this fight.

    We use a 3rd DK tank specifically for soaking rage sparks. Handy because he can grip adds together or back away from the raid, DPS was never a problem for us. We swapped to this tactic on our first progression night after 3-4 attempts of getting random DPS to soak with personals and killed it within another 3-4. We hard cc the rages when Courage up (poly/hex) then kill them as soon as it down.

    We have a rockbiter enhance both kill the strengths and soak the spark from them, whilst our Warlock soaked the Courage spark.

    Our comp (1st Kill) -
    3 tanks, 2 healers, 5 DPS.

    Brewmaster - Blood DK - Prot Warr
    HPala - Disco
    Enhance - Affliction Lock - Frost Mage - Elemental Shaman - Boomkin

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    -- Fight starts --

    2 rages - 0:10 | kill
    1 strength - 0:25 |
    2 rages - 0:42 | kill
    1 courage - 1:00 |
    1 strength - 1:15 |
    2 rages - 1:15 | cc rages

    -- Boss Spawn --

    2 rages - 1:55 | kill all 4
    1 strength - 2:10 |
    2 rages - 2:27 | cc rages
    1 courage - 2:50 |
    1 strength - 3:00 |
    2 rages - 3:00 | kill all 4

    -- Burn Phase --

    Rinse & Repeat

    -----

    I edited in the cc bit, even though i dont think its actually better :-)
    After the above phase, its kill rages -> cc rages -> kill 4 rages.
    Thank you for such precise info. Thanks to all else that helped!

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