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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dero View Post
    heres the issue the monk buffs really are needed because of pve not pvp and they are gonna get nerfed because everyone is gonna cry on the pvp forums.

    Play a monk in live right now and go tank or dps or heal and tell me how it goes when you get stunned esepcially while tanking.
    I guess you missed the part where the Devs said they would be throwing PVP buffs at monks. And they needed way more pvp buffs than pve buffs. Monk tanks are alright right now sure they have some holes in their spec but they are far from being bad. Mistweavers i can tell you from exeperience are not in a bad place right now, sure we're behind the pack for the most part be we are far from "bad". Windwalkers have steady dps and also are no where near bad.

    Brewmasters are perhaps the worse pvp tanks right now. Mistweavers are the worse or tied with priests as the worse healers in arena, there is usually one per rbg group due to the fact that they can throw out crazy aoe heals. Windwalker monks, the least represented dps in arenas right now. No one past 1200 rating takes a WW monk into an rbg. I can tell you how it feels to be stunned as a monk....the same exact feeling it feels to be stunned as any other class.

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral Manabomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    On paper they do indeed look like a solid reliable class but they have quite a few holes in them. They have no secondary cc removal (currently). Their mobility is awkward at best. Touch of karma is alright but thats it for survivability. Spear hand strike is pretty much luck based, if you or the other person has the slightest bit of lag it will most likely not trigger the silence effect. I agree that ring of peace is quite powerful it also is somewhat needed. As they sit even as ptr assuming they didn't have ring of peace, there would be no reason to bring a WW monk to an rbg. I'd say increase the cd to balance it out. The nimble brew's removal of fears stuns and snares might seem over the top at first glance but it was quite needed, maybe remove the secondary effect which reduces any more by 60% for 6 seconds. Though looking at the receiving end of a WW monk with the new abilities i can see how they would be quite frustrating and personally i don't think its fair to make the assertion they are "op" until they have more testing done in the 3s area.

    On a side note, i noticed a glitch that is making WW monks have some absurd healing. You can actually have 2 Chi Waves going at the same time. If you throw one out at max range you can get a second one in before the first one expires and the second doesn't cancel the first. It may not be so much a glitch as an oversight on Blizzards part.
    Their mobility is probably the best in the game out of any of the melee. 3 rolls plus flying serpent kick that defies all movement reduction effects, like a charge that doesn't stun. Touch of Karma isn't the only thing for defensive cooldowns. You have Diffuse Magic which might as well be a better ams with no damage cap for a high cooldown and a mini ibf/last stand in Fortifying Brew. As far as spearhand strike goes currently, they took gag order out for warriors yet leave this in because of "luck" based character turning. It really isn't hard to hit the front of someone, so I'm really not following on the lag or luck you speak off.

    I agree, remove the secondary effect of nimble and make the cooldown for ring of peace 3 minutes. Additionally there is a glitch in the ptr right now a few friends are confirming that ring of peace silences through devoution aura like effects. Most likely a bug, but imagine if that went live.
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  3. #23
    Monks definitely need to be greatly buffed in PVP. I think it's better to risk making them overpowered and then nerf them with a hotfix than to make them too weak. They tried to avoid what happened with DKs but I think it was short-sighted. If a new class is underpowered and you slowly give it tiny buffs to eventually make it average then no teams will want to play with it.

    The good thing about what happened with DKs was that it managed to convince some hardcore PVPers to reroll DK which increased their representation. Teams and friendships were formed. The community took time to find the best comps such as TSG, and all kinds of strategies were formed on how different specs should play with a DK partner. Then when DKs got nerfed to the point that they were balanced, most people stuck with their DK teams because they already knew how to play together, they had tactics and strats for how to counter certain teams. Friendships had formed.

    That never happened with monks. Monks have had a stigma about them in the PVP community since the launch of MoP. Some people might argue that monks are not too far off from being viable and balanced... but honestly who would reroll their class so they can be "almost viable"? If someone was going to reroll their class for PVP they'd probably pick warrior, mage, etc. Who would reform and spend a lot of time testing out comps and tactics with a class that's "almost balanced"? People only do it out of boredom or novelty.

    I just looked at the North American 3v3 ladders to see how many Windwalkers were on 2200+ teams (and actually had 2200+ rating). There were a total of 2. One had 2268, one had like 2210. They barely meet the minimum rating to get elite gear and they're the best Windwalkers in the entire region. Meanwhile other specs have hundreds of players at higher ratings. It's been over 3 months now, they're not going anywhere without buffs. And even if they got a few small buffs to make them Glad-capable there would be no reason to reroll one outside of novelty or boredom.
    Last edited by Moozhe; 2013-01-04 at 09:51 PM.

  4. #24
    I love how they go from being one of the weaker classes overall in PvP to being gods oozing with omnipotence. PTR is PTR I guess. Monks need buffs but we don't need another DK disaster.

  5. #25
    monk and rogues.

    Rogues are back to cata god mode state in case you are wondering how they are doing on the ptr.

  6. #26
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Smoke bomb + ring of peace will be a very interesting combination.

  7. #27
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cexspa View Post
    monk and rogues.

    Rogues are back to cata god mode state in case you are wondering how they are doing on the ptr.
    Not sure why people keep thinking Rogues are going to be Gods like they were in season 11. Its just that this time, good Rogues (which make up a miniscule amount of players) will be Gods like they always were before season 12. The average Rogue will just be the average rogue that complains about Second Wind healing.

    I've played the PTR and the melee hierarchy is basically still the same with the exception of Monks and Rogues being able to actually compete with Arms/Feral/Enhance.

  8. #28
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    Their mobility is probably the best in the game out of any of the melee. 3 rolls plus flying serpent kick that defies all movement reduction effects, like a charge that doesn't stun. Touch of Karma isn't the only thing for defensive cooldowns. You have Diffuse Magic which might as well be a better ams with no damage cap for a high cooldown and a mini ibf/last stand in Fortifying Brew. As far as spearhand strike goes currently, they took gag order out for warriors yet leave this in because of "luck" based character turning. It really isn't hard to hit the front of someone, so I'm really not following on the lag or luck you speak off.
    That mobility is primarily used to escape getting your butt handed to you. Also, most PvP Monks can't roll 3 times, that is a talent. Most PvP Monks spec into Tiger's Lust for the snare/root removal. FSK isn't a Charge that doesn't stun because you can't target anyone with it. Monks who use it in PvP get knocked out of it with Death Grip or a snare. It happens constantly, to the point where again you're pretty much only using FSK to escape. Monks are hardly locking anyone down or pressuring range with their awesome mobility. Casters and Hunters absolutely decimate them, and Melee just steamroll them into dirt as soon as ToK runs its course.

    I agree, remove the secondary effect of nimble and make the cooldown for ring of peace 3 minutes. Additionally there is a glitch in the ptr right now a few friends are confirming that ring of peace silences through devoution aura like effects. Most likely a bug, but imagine if that went live.
    Um, no. That secondary effect allows Monks to not get chain stunned and feared over and over again as is the case currently in Live. As for Ring of Peace, most classes have a defensive ability that can be casted WHILE silenced. Astral Shift, Ice Block, and Barkskin are some major examples. RoP is the way it is because again, Monks have very little methods that can pressure casters and Hunters. Paralysis and RoP help with that.

  9. #29
    I want to make warriors CRY. Hard. And locks too. Mages, well they kite anyone too easy anyway. But here's hopeing I wont be a squishy free kill next patch.

    Also, BrM in pvp. Lol one stun and they fall dead. (I still like playing it though..)

  10. #30
    The Patient Divinism's Avatar
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    There's no way the current version of Ring of Peace will make it live. I played PTR and so far, this is how it works.

    -8s silence / disarm, you can cast it on yourself or the enemy target, and it will follow either target. So basically you could view it as a 8s blanket silence on a single person. Or you can cast it on yourself and potentially save yourself from being tunneled by melee.
    -It's untrinketable as of now, it behaves as a physical debuff so only way to remove it is to bubble / ice block it.
    -It does not DR with any other silence effect (only tried Spear Hand Strike silence), so you could shut down a caster up to 13 seconds with Silence or Strangulate, or 12s with your toolkit.

    I did not try with disarms yet, but the condition with silences implies that it works the same. This means you can disarm a player with no weapon chain (primarily dks) up to 16 seconds, assuming that they do not trinket.

    EDIT: Confirmed.
    -Does not DR with other disarms, so 16 second disarm is possible.
    -Does not account weapon chain, so even with chain you still can get disarmed for 12 seconds.
    Last edited by Divinism; 2013-01-05 at 07:54 PM.

  11. #31
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divinitum View Post
    There's no way the current version of Ring of Peace will make it live. I played PTR and so far, this is how it works.

    -8s silence / disarm, you can cast it on yourself or the enemy target, and it will follow either target. So basically you could view it as a 8s blanket silence on a single person. Or you can cast it on yourself and potentially save yourself from being tunneled by melee.
    -It's untrinketable as of now, it behaves as a physical debuff so only way to remove it is to bubble / ice block it.
    -It does not DR with any other silence effect (only tried Spear Hand Strike silence), so you could shut down a caster up to 13 seconds with Silence or Strangulate, or 12s with your toolkit.

    I did not try with disarms yet, but the condition with silences implies that it works the same. This means you can disarm a player with no weapon chain (primarily dks) up to 16 seconds, assuming that they do not trinket.

    EDIT: Confirmed.
    -Does not DR with other disarms, so 16 second disarm is possible.
    Need to test: If it accounts weapon chain.
    While testing out things, could you try out how stupidly overpowered a smoke bomb on top of ring of peace is?
    Most classes won't be able to use any defensive cooldowns while in it, and will be unhealable for 8sec as well.

  12. #32
    Please put your tears in a vial so I can rub them all over my body later.

  13. #33
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    My mistweaver is healing is fine, what they need to change is more quality of life things. Like our 'bubble' getting dispelled or paralysis range(which they are changing). The things things that I want is to have paralysis have some thing that stops them from being damaged, either that it removes dots or maybe just stops them from taking aoe damage. Another thing I want is somewhat like the first, my chi wave hits cced targets, I have lost games from this so please make it not hit cc people. My last change is to either have something like nimble brew, all the other healers have a cc immunity or able to get out of it(druid can get out of roots and stuns and try to be immune to polymorph, pallys can bubble and sac, priest can fear ward and many premp things) but the only thing I can do on my monk is cc, interrupt or teleport which other classes can do.
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  14. #34
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    i rly cant see them being left as they are on ptr atm as said in here some were unkillable the are god mode FOTM will be monk or rogues come 5.2 just depends if all these changes make it to live

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Nest's Avatar
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    Ring of Peace is retardedly OP.
    A 8 sec AoE silence + disarm that stays on your target (friendly or hostile), you can't dispel it. Not sure if you can block it off or anything, should get nerfed a bit imo.

    Rogue / MW Monk 2v2 on PTR is awesome fun, good luck beating that.
    Last edited by Nest; 2013-01-05 at 08:01 PM.
    Heyoo!

  16. #36
    My friend has his lvl 90 monk ready for reroll when 5.2 releases and judging by our 100+ games of arena on the PTR so far....

    Monk will be ridicolously overpowered if the current ptr-patch goes live. Something inside me wishes that not even blizzard will be this dumb
    but history slaps me in the face and reminds me about all other mistakes they made even tho they were spammed with feedback.

  17. #37
    I'm glad I don't pvp anymore in wow. It's an abomination.

  18. #38
    It's barely a start of PTR, all classes are being buffed/nerfed, no numbers are tweaked, monks are getting gigantic overhaul - of course everything is broken - that's PTR..
    Saying at this moment that monks will be best ever and DK-like OP is just retardedly dumb.. It's gonna get tweaked, other classes still need their numbers and mechanics tweaked as well.. Don't cry now, and wait till further into PTR, when more class balance changes will be done. If you have concerns - go to Blizz forums, no point arguing here..
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
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    ^------True story!!

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by DemoBytom View Post
    It's barely a start of PTR, all classes are being buffed/nerfed, no numbers are tweaked, monks are getting gigantic overhaul - of course everything is broken - that's PTR..
    Saying at this moment that monks will be best ever and DK-like OP is just retardedly dumb.. It's gonna get tweaked, other classes still need their numbers and mechanics tweaked as well.. Don't cry now, and wait till further into PTR, when more class balance changes will be done. If you have concerns - go to Blizz forums, no point arguing here..
    These are the exact same arguments that were used for warriors overpowered state in the beta before release. Guess what... warriors have dominated the entire season since release.

    Your arguments are invalid.

  20. #40
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dero View Post
    heres the issue the monk buffs really are needed because of pve not pvp and they are gonna get nerfed because everyone is gonna cry on the pvp forums.

    Play a monk in live right now and go tank or dps or heal and tell me how it goes when you get stunned esepcially while tanking.
    So your justifying mainly PvP related buffs to PvE content where monks already fair pretty great regardless of class?

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