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  1. #61
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMGITSDOT View Post
    The irony of many of the Monks saying the exact same crap as Warriors did early in the expac is most definitely not lost on me. They deserve buffs but not to the level that they currently are on the PTR, and it is early so I don't see why people are even freaking out yet.
    People are freaking out because Ghostcrawler said that Monk changes may have to be dramatic to bring it up to par in PvP. Thus, RoP may end up going Live as is.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozhe View Post
    That's funny because our sustained damage got 0 buffs. In fact it was slightly nerfed given the fact that our mastery no longer gives us Combo Breaker procs (of which even if we reforged out of it we would still have some).
    That's funny because you're wrong, combo breaker is now baseline and they got a completely new mastery, +massive buff to major dmg abilities

    Just play the PTR for more than 30sec and see for yourself, as soon as a Monk connect to anything it just die in 10s, this is more retarded than 5.0 warrior.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozhe View Post
    That's funny because our sustained damage got 0 buffs. In fact it was slightly nerfed given the fact that our mastery no longer gives us Combo Breaker procs (of which even if we reforged out of it we would still have some).

    Only our burst damage was buffed (it is now improved by mastery). The uptime is fairly high in PVE (about 50%), but in PVP we usually only get around a 20-25% uptime.

    Our burst damage is capable of getting really high, but we have to sacrifice a lot of crit or haste to get there so when we have high burst our sustained damage is bad.

    Most of our buffs on the PTR are utility and survivability. We no longer fall over in a stun. Decent damage was already there on live, but nobody cared cause we had not much else to offer.
    That's all funny because I've been saying that exact same thing since 5.0. Monk sustained is absurdly powerful. They really didn't need much boosts as their rep was naturally going to increase with warrior/hunter nerfs. But nope, Blizzard would rather see random massive spikes in rep based entirely on ridiculous buffs/nerfs than actual balance.
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  4. #64
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Blizzard did an actually pretty good job at not letting that happen. No DKs this time around.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    That's funny because you're wrong, combo breaker is now baseline and they got a completely new mastery, +massive buff to major dmg abilities

    Just play the PTR for more than 30sec and see for yourself, as soon as a Monk connect to anything it just die in 10s, this is more retarded than 5.0 warrior.
    The reason that Combo Breaker is baseline in 5.2 is that Tigereye Brew was already 20% baseline as well. So it'd be a nerf if the new baseline mastery was worse than the old one. In 5.2 we basically don't really have a baseline mastery, if we have 0 mastery we're the same as we were in 5.1 pretty much.

    The new mastery is not a buff to sustained damage, it's a buff to burst damage in the sense that we can choose to stack mastery and gain increased damage when we pop Tigereye Brew. But we lose sustained damage from haste or crit. Basically our mastery was bad and now it's good, but it's not much better than haste or mastery, actually most theorycrafting so far shows it's only slightly better than haste as long as we have enough haste to maintain good chi generation.

    The only things different now on PTR in terms of damage is that Tigereye Brew stacks faster (before we would NEVER get to use it if it was a short 1min arena match, unlike other classes who can pop CDs out of the gate), and we also have the option to stack mastery so we hit like a truck during Tigereye Brew (but we have to give up other stats for that, so we'll do less sustained damage that we currently do on live).

    I've done plenty of extended target dummy DPS tests with the same gear on PTR as I use on live (but reforging mastery>haste>crit instead of crit>haste>mastery) and I can tell you that our sustained DPS hasn't changed.
    Last edited by Moozhe; 2013-01-06 at 07:02 AM.

  6. #66
    So you have a class that has some of the best sustained damage in pvp getting some of the best burst dmg to go with it. And then getting their cc buffed then gaining anti cc tools, Buffed survival, has insane mobility that can be used for running away already but now has good healing to go with it. Chi cost removed from many things meaning even more dmg. What could go wrong with doing that much at once?

    Do monks need help yes, but blizzard is coming at this at to many angles at once. Its not a good idea it just buff a class anywhere their weak. Buffing a few weak things is fine but everything thats where the problem is coming from.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    You mean monks arent facerolled anymore by every single class and now they are FOTM op?

    K.

    Seems its a L2P issue.

    That made no sense since they got huge buffs and many others got equal nerfs.
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  8. #68
    They will probably be OP. It will take another patch or two to bring them back down to slightly above the level they are now. Monks will complain. They'll get buffed again. Egregiously. They'll have to be nerfed again. Thus, the vicious cycle will continue.

    IMO, rogues will be the FoTM class next patch, so to speak. Which is almost quasi-ridiculous to say, considering this has been the first period of time in a while where rogues haven't been at the top or near the top in terms of PVP.

  9. #69
    As of right now ww monks suck. Period. Some of the changes seem "op," and they would be op on an otherwise fine class. But this class isn't fine it's garbage and needs serious buffs. It will still lack a good gap closer as well as other things essential to pvp. "God mode op" some of you need to break 2.2k to even be allowed to talk about balance. If you've never even been 1750 you should just stick to watching swifty one shot videos and keep the comments to yourselves.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by lokatii View Post
    As of right now ww monks suck. Period. Some of the changes seem "op," and they would be op on an otherwise fine class. But this class isn't fine it's garbage and needs serious buffs. It will still lack a good gap closer as well as other things essential to pvp. "God mode op" some of you need to break 2.2k to even be allowed to talk about balance. If you've never even been 1750 you should just stick to watching swifty one shot videos and keep the comments to yourselves.
    You dont know anything about pvp if you think that monks arent op on the PTR. Sorry to break it to you.
    EVERYONE in the high end arena community agrees that monks will be the new FOTM in 5.2 if ptr goes live as is.
    Stop making a fool of yourself mate, and that also applies to the rest of you defending monks on the PTR

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    You dont know anything about pvp if you think that monks arent op on the PTR. Sorry to break it to you.
    EVERYONE in the high end arena community agrees that monks will be the new FOTM in 5.2 if ptr goes live as is.
    Stop making a fool of yourself mate, and that also applies to the rest of you defending monks on the PTR
    Being a monk myself i do agree that monks are quite strong and perhaps op. But there are some factors that may skew peoples opinion of them. They're basicaly a new class in 5.2, previously people didn't even need to learn about monk abilites to just faceroll them and now that they can't do the same exact thing they claim they're op. I also think they are similar to Cata Enh shams in the sense that in duels and 2s they were ridiculous more so duels than 2s. With it being PTR i just don't see how they are going to be tested thoroughly in 3s to the point were we can say with utter confidence that they are op. And im not disagreeing with you, im saying give it time befor making absurd comments like "everyone in high end arena agrees with my opinion".

  12. #72
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Honestly, Rogues will be FotM in 5.2. They are ripping people apart in PTR.

  13. #73
    Warchief Henkdejager's Avatar
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    We won't let the monks be the dk of pandaria we promise blablabla

    with these buffs it seems monks will be raping. Not talking about the dmg buffs and such, but about the ring 1. they had a similair ability in beta and it got removed caus of OPnes. if i remember correct.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Honestly, Rogues will be FotM in 5.2. They are ripping people apart in PTR.

    this is what i came here to post, after playing around on the ptr for a while, monks seem powerful, but rogues are just tearing shit up. maybe ive just been facing really really good rogues, but their damage is crazy on the ptr right now in pvp. i know theyve sucked all of MoP so far, but i think blizzard may have overbuffed slightly.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 10:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Henkdejager View Post
    We won't let the monks be the dk of pandaria we promise blablabla

    with these buffs it seems monks will be raping. Not talking about the dmg buffs and such, but about the ring 1. they had a similair ability in beta and it got removed caus of OPnes. if i remember correct.

    the ring of peace is not really that over powered, its going to be powerful in random battlegrounds against low geared people or people who dont know what the spell is. what ive seen in ptr a lot is when i put it on a enememy, some of them dont know what it does and run into a group of their friends, when the best thing to do is run away. and against bad geared people you could probably burst them down in that 8seconds, but against someone with decent gear it didn't seem that powerful, once change i would make is to increase the cooldown, 1.5min seems a bit too short for it. would make it at least 2mins.

    one thing i dont understand is blizzard said recently they want to remove blanket silences from classes, and then they add this?


    want to add, my perspective is from MW monk, not WW. ive not played windwalker on ptr yet.

    and with mistweaver monk, i would not say they are OP, they are very powerful healers, but if you are not careful you burn through your mana very very quick, quicker than any other healer.
    Last edited by peggleftw; 2013-01-06 at 10:56 PM.
    Too cool for a signature

  15. #75
    That ring of peace will make monks a MUST in every rbg team. Just imagine this :
    Ring of Frost>DeathGrip>druid Vortex>Solar Beam > and right before they can get out, BOOM>Ring of Peace. That shit is VERY hard to counter....VERY.
    I'm very curious about the new changes.

  16. #76
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    this is what i came here to post, after playing around on the ptr for a while, monks seem powerful, but rogues are just tearing shit up. maybe ive just been facing really really good rogues, but their damage is crazy on the ptr right now in pvp. i know theyve sucked all of MoP so far, but i think blizzard may have overbuffed slightly.[COLOR=red]
    I got sapped twice, stun locked, and the butchering began. By the time I got out of stun, I was at 25% health in full gemmed and enchanted PvP gear. What made it worse is that as soon as I got out of stun, the Rogue immediately silenced me (I was on Ele Shaman) and there wasn't anything I could do.

    Maybe I'm also facing really good Rogues, but the PTR BGs are full of them, and they're all doing the same thing.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I got sapped twice, stun locked, and the butchering began. By the time I got out of stun, I was at 25% health in full gemmed and enchanted PvP gear. What made it worse is that as soon as I got out of stun, the Rogue immediately silenced me (I was on Ele Shaman) and there wasn't anything I could do.

    Maybe I'm also facing really good Rogues, but the PTR BGs are full of them, and they're all doing the same thing.
    same thing was happening to me as MW monk, i know im not the best monk, but no other class has ever given me this much trouble, it was impossible to even get a cast off. i know rogues were badly needing buffs, but a lot of people are saying the same right now, rogue damage on the PTR is over the top.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 11:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethox View Post
    That ring of peace will make monks a MUST in every rbg team. Just imagine this :
    Ring of Frost>DeathGrip>druid Vortex>Solar Beam > and right before they can get out, BOOM>Ring of Peace. That shit is VERY hard to counter....VERY.
    I'm very curious about the new changes.

    yeah it would be quite good to pull all that off. i think RoP duration should be maybe 6seconds instead of 8, and cooldown to 2mins, maybe glpyh to 1.5mins.
    Too cool for a signature

  18. #78
    I really don't see Ring of Peace going through in its current state. Skill caps ranging from Gladiators to "Noobs" are telling blizzard to re-vamp this ability. It's just too much.

    Regardless, I think Monks will indeed be substantially more popular in PvP, but I don't think they'll be purely FotM for a few reasons:

    1) Rogues are actually making a return back to the game, and many many players quit their Rogues and are now leveling/preparing them.

    2) Monks have to be leveled from 1, and are the 'new' class this expansion, and since they're currently very underrepresented, it would take an enormous amount of people to level them for them to be anywhere near FotM Warrior status.

    3) People currently playing Warrior, Feral, or even DK, have almost no reason to re-roll to a FotM class because they're all going to still be very strong in 5.2. If anything, it's just Mages that got screwed the most. In terms of healers, RDruids will probably just end up going RSham/HPal.

    4) Monks were always good duelists (1v1). I'm in full T2 PvP gear, the only thing I have trouble with is skilled Mages and Hunters (IE, Kiters). The buffs and people not understanding Monks are what's causing the current shit-storm. The only thing that's truly "OP" is Ring of Peace. Every other buff was well-deserved.

    5) Many people on the PTR are abusing Rogue/Monk in 3's, and just Smokebombing/Ring of Peacing at the same time, resulting in 0-skill gameplay and dropping opponents without anyone being able to do anything. If Ring of Peace gets removed/reworked, I assure you Monks will not/should not be FotM.

  19. #79
    @Teriz plz dont use word "stunlock" it doesnt exist anymore, you were stunned for 6 sec max, and btw u're ele shaman as you said, i think u can only kill retry paladin speaking of melee.

    @peggleftw Rogue dmg changed about 4% and 1 more ambush (for the more energy), because if dmg on ptr are over the top, well those dmg are over the top on live too, because i dont think 4% more dmg and 1 ambush are doing the difference overall.

    Just counter the shadowdance, and after that rogue dmg come from the opener, but u wont see anymore backstab crit all the way your back to death


  20. #80
    Monks have been fine in pvp since MoP was released. the ONLY reason they're not well represented is not too many people were interested in leveling 1-90. Blizzard is insane for buffing them nonstop. they'll be OP as hell in 5.2 and certainly FotM

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