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  1. #21
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    You mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy ?

    My point is, I think that for most of the world republic and democracy are basically synonyms. At least they are in my country, which is a republic by name, but Americans would call it a democracy I guess.
    They're synonyms in common speech, similar to how civil rights and civil liberties are conflated despite being very different things. Political scientists rarely use democracy and republic interchangeably.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    You mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy ?

    My point is, I think that for most of the world republic and democracy are basically synonyms. At least they are in my country, which is a republic by name, but Americans would call it a democracy I guess.
    A republic and a democracy are identical in every aspect except one. In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group.

    We are in theory a republic, but that is not always the case. I agree that the distinction gets blurry in actual practice.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    They're synonyms in common speech, similar to how civil rights and civil liberties are conflated despite being very different things. Political scientists rarely use democracy and republic interchangeably.
    Synonym in common speech. Pffft, that's just your theory.

    [lol, I make the joke, and then see someone actually using the word theory in the next post...]

  4. #24
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    No and it was never meant to be nearly so democratic as it is now. Voting privileges weren't meant to be and never should have been expanded to anywhere near what they are now (including to myself).
    Then who, in your mind, should vote? The aristocrats? Politicians? Those with advanced degrees?

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  5. #25
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Then who, in your mind, should vote? The aristocrats? Politicians? Those with advanced degrees?
    Propertied white males. Duh.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Propertied white males. Duh.
    Christian* propertied white males, we wouldn't want atheists to have a say in the law wouldn't we?
    Thread:Will we ever create A.I?
    So I just watched Her and it gave me a deep thought. Will man ever create an artificial consciousness or is it impossible. Anyone have any ideas?
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    We are currently creating "A.S" - artificial stupidity. A.K.A internet forums

  7. #27
    Pandaren Monk Willeonge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    I thought democracy and republic are essentialy the same in its core? About giving power to the people instead of single ruler or group

    republic coming from latin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_publica
    and means "the public thing"


    democracy coming from ancient greek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demokratia
    and means "the people hold power" or "people's power"
    At the time of the founding, democracy had the connotation of a direct democracy, and the founders wanted to avoid that.
    "Laws should be made of iron, not of pudding."

    “A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward.”

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  8. #28
    To highlight the difference another way, Obama was elected President today. While we the people voted last year, the REAL election (by the electoral college) was held today. Seems they voted the way we asked them to however.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Then who, in your mind, should vote? The aristocrats? Politicians? Those with advanced degrees?
    High school or ged graduates, minimum second generation imigrants, and 3 forms of identifacation.

  10. #30
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    To highlight the difference another way, Obama was elected President today. While we the people voted last year, the REAL election (by the electoral college) was held today. Seems they voted the way we asked them to however.
    A better example would be the Gore v. Bush election where the popular vote went for Gore.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  11. #31
    Keyboard Turner neskvee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    Today, it's no secret that US of America is supposed to be a democracy. I couldn't help but to notice that there's absolutely nothing on democracy in the consitution, bill of rights or the declaration of independance. Did the founding fathers really intend for US of America to become a democracy? To me it sounds like they didn't want for it to head in that direction.

    Perhaps they thought it was a bad idea? Is Democracy even a viable government type? It all ends up with 51% of the people controlling the other 49%, as was shown in the presidential elections. Maybe that's what the founding fathers knew and wanted to avoid.

    Hopefully we can get some interesting discussions going on this. What do you guys think?
    No, it was meant to be a republic because democracy, like communism, never works.

  12. #32
    Brewmaster DieFichte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neskvee View Post
    No, it was meant to be a republic because democracy, like communism, never works.
    Oh crap, I have to get out of here, our system doesn't work.

    Halp!

  13. #33
    A major problem with a democracy and our republic is that eventually the people discover they can vote themselves free stuff by taking it from others or from future generations with debt. The other problem is that the majority can force their ideology upon the minority, meaning they can tell people what they can and can not do whether those actions harm others or not. Sadly, both of these scenarios have come to pass with a vengeance, just as many founders predicted they would.

  14. #34
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetriot View Post
    A major problem with a democracy and our republic is that eventually the people discover they can vote themselves free stuff by taking it from others or from future generations with debt. The other problem is that the majority can force their ideology upon the minority, meaning they can tell people what they can and can not do whether those actions harm others or not. Sadly, both of these scenarios have come to pass with a vengeance, just as many founders predicted they would.
    Which is why you don't cater to popular opinion. You take it as a factor, not the end all decision maker.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    It is obviously an idiocracy.

    Democracy is just a buzzword they use to make people think they actually have power anymore.

  16. #36
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neskvee View Post
    No, it was meant to be a republic because democracy, like communism, never works.
    Oh, it works. It just tends to end up in dictatorship.

    People don't tend towards democracy naturally.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  17. #37
    Fluffy Kitten Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    They were, but they failed to realise that parties are an organic necessity of any representative system.
    They're a necessary aspect of any social system whatsoever, really.. our ancestors had been banding together out of common interest (survival) for long before the human race even came into being. Political parties or no, people with a common goal will pool their efforts to achieve said goal. Forming a party is merely a way to organize and fund their efforts.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Oh, it works. It just tends to end up in dictatorship.

    People don't tend towards democracy naturally.
    Not yet. We only do that with the president. We have checks of term limits so we dont have a king. Why we dont have the same for the senate is beyond me. The power an incumbant has today is almost tyranical. Look at what the.kennedy family has done.

  19. #39
    Fluffy Kitten Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Not yet. We only do that with the president. We have checks of term limits so we dont have a king. Why we dont have the same for the senate is beyond me. The power an incumbant has today is almost tyranical. Look at what the.kennedy family has done.
    The power of an incumbent? I fail to see how a single incumbent has a great deal more political power than any other congressman. The primary problem with a lack of term limits is the focus that congressmen put on appeasing special interests groups and the majority, as well as diverting time and energy to fundraising and political campaigns, as opposed to doing their job and running the country as an impartial representative of the people.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    The power of an incumbent? I fail to see how a single incumbent has a great deal more political power than any other congressman. The primary problem with a lack of term limits is the focus that congressmen put on appeasing special interests groups and the majority, as well as diverting time and energy to fundraising and political campaigns, as opposed to doing their job and running the country as an impartial representative of the people.
    Look how likely an incumbent is to win an election and you'll see what's he's talking about with "The power of an incumbent".

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