1. #1
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    [BM] How Do I Analyze My Logs Correctly?

    Hey fellow Brewmasters, I have a couple questions regarding analyzing my logs for a fight.

    I am currently raid leader and MT for our 10M guild, and we are currently 5/6 MSV and 1/6 HoF. We'd been stuck on Elegon for a long time (go figure we finally downed him on the 2nd after about 3 tries), so in order to take a closer look, I had one of our mages (Juddory) download and run logs for our runs. Naturally, we forgot to turn it on for our Elegon kill but after 1 try of Will we remembered to turn it on.

    I've been lurking through these forums rather frequently and commenting when I can, and I've gleaned that 85%+ shuffle time is a good number to shoot for. As a Brewmaster first, how do I manipulate what the data is showing to find out certain things (such as the aforementioned shuffle uptime) that I am doing? What are some key things I need to look for? How do I spot any red flags?

    If anyone can speak to analyzing from a raid leader point of view using the same line of questioning (key things to look for, red flags, etc.), it would be much appreciated as well.

    I know there are some difficult fights ahead of us (Garalon, Amber-shaper, Empress), so I'd really like to use this tool to our advantage and hopefully decrease the amount of time we spend on these bosses.

    Here is our Raid Comp:
    Kyôshi - MT (myself)
    Iridis - OT (MT for single tank fights, I go WW spec) Prot Pally
    Hypershark - Frost DK
    Shadowsprite - Rogue
    Juddory - Mage
    Annexation - Ele Shaman
    Allbymyselfz - Hunter
    Rain - Holy Priest
    Mandarr - Resto/Feral Druid
    Krygon - Holy Paladin

    And our logs from our most recent raid evening:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zgt6s17fs9l2yzb8/

    I'm not too specifically worried about our Will attempts, as we almost cleared the whole place in a single evening and only had about 5 tries before our raid ended, and after beating our heads against Elegon for so long I'm fairly confident we can down Will in a few tries on our next raid time. Thanks in advance for any help and advice!
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  2. #2
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    By going through the tabs and using your longest attempt (12:27) here is what I see
    Damage & Healing by spell
    - Expel Harm: 36 out of a possible 49 uses. Probably could use a little more often.
    - Chi Wave: 50 uses, this seems a bit high lets see what his buff uptimes look like.
    - Devestating Arc: 2, this is a good number for such a long fight so he knows the dance.
    Damage & Healing by Actor
    - He accounted for 43% of his own self heals. While this seems good it makes me feel like he isn't receiving enough outside healing and being topped off often enough. May be why he is spamming Chi wave so much.
    Buffs/Debuffs
    - Tiger Power = Good
    - Power Guard = Good
    - Shuffle: 84% is fine so long as the 16% is during periods of not tanking.
    - Elusive Brew: Looks fine, this caps constantly during the dance so hard to gauge.
    - Dampen Harm: Could double the number of times this is used.
    - Fort Brew: Could probably find one more spot to use this in a fight that long.
    Deaths:
    Emperor's Strength killed him, assume at this point the raid was wiping and adds were going everywhere? If not why was a Strength hitting him?

    Looking at that one fight I only have those few minor nitpicky things. Overall seems to be doing good for an early progression monk tank. I'm going to take a guess that your issues like in low HPS and DPS from the rest of the team. He is outhealing your Holy priest, no disc spec? I don't think Holy has an advantage on Will.

    Haven't played any other 90's in MoP so not going to comment on the other classes outside of just seeing raw kinda low numbers.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2013-01-04 at 09:51 PM.

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  3. #3
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    I'm posting AS the MT and Raid Leader, Kyoshi, so it felt kind of weird reading your reply like you were responding to someone else . I guess I should clarify, I'm curious to know how you arrived at your analysis. I'm guessing the parts you bolded correspond to a specific tab or menu in the WoL site to access all that information?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    By going through the tabs and using your longest attempt (12:27) here is what I see
    Damage & Healing by spell
    - Expel Harm: 36 out of a possible 49 uses. Probably could use a little more often.
    - Chi Wave: 50 uses, this seems a bit high lets see what his buff uptimes look like.
    - Devestating Arc: 2, this is a good number for such a long fight so he knows the dance.
    For example, how do you determine that 49 is the number of possible EH uses? Is that just merely dividing the length of the fight by the cd of EH? Granted, in our group we have a few melee, so I like tossing out Chi Wave (PB and BoK use permitting) to help out the healers. This is one of the deeper issues I have as a tank (and a big reason why I chose a monk) - I prefer to rely on myself to help out with heals on the rest of my group. Which coincides with why I'm just starting to use WoL: How do I determine that my healers are doing a good enough job keeping people up that I don't need to worry about self-preservation as much? This is why I'd like help analyzing logs; I don't know how to determine all that.

    A little off-topic as well, I felt sooo confident with doing the dance that I offered our other tank 5000g if he took less hits from devastating combo than I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Damage & Healing by Actor
    - He accounted for 43% of his own self heals. While this seems good it makes me feel like he isn't receiving enough outside healing and being topped off often enough. May be why he is spamming Chi wave so much.
    This kind of ties into my previous question. As a monk tank, where would I draw the line (if there is one) on self heals? Also will WoL break down how many GOTO orbs I am getting vs. the total number spawned?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Buffs/Debuffs
    - Tiger Power = Good
    - Power Guard = Good
    - Shuffle: 84% is fine so long as the 16% is during periods of not tanking.
    - Elusive Brew: Looks fine, this caps constantly during the dance so hard to gauge.
    - Dampen Harm: Could double the number of times this is used.
    - Fort Brew: Could probably find one more spot to use this in a fight that long.
    Going back through the logs, I found where shuffle uptime was showing, but that only brings me to another question: Is there a way I can filter out the time spent before the bosses even spawn? I recall frequently checking my buffs during the fight and could always see the shuffle buff; it SEEMED like I had it up almost 100% of the time (only during the dancing of course), and the 84% would probably take into account the 90 seconds before the bosses drop down where shuffle is unnecessary.

    Because these were our first couple attempts at Will, I was saving all my CDs (Fort Brew, DH, etc.) for the Titan Gas phase. Would it be more beneficial to use them during the hard hitting periods between the dance instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Deaths:
    Emperor's Strength killed him, assume at this point the raid was wiping and adds were going everywhere? If not why was a Strength hitting him?

    Looking at that one fight I only have those few minor nitpicky things. Overall seems to be doing good for an early progression monk tank. I'm going to take a guess that your issues like in low HPS and DPS from the rest of the team. He is outhealing your Holy priest, no disc spec? I don't think Holy has an advantage on Will.

    Haven't played any other 90's in MoP so not going to comment on the other classes outside of just seeing raw kinda low numbers.
    Yeah at the end of the fight we were getting overwhelmed by adds, but again these were our first couple attempts at this boss before we had to call the raid.

    We do have issues with low raid dps, which is why I have more exp. than most BMs to try and push my dps as much as possible. We have talked to our priest about trying out disc, but she hates it and would rather stay holy. I know a lot of fights are made easier by a disc priest, but she is and has been a valuable raid member in the past, and hasn't given us a reason to bench her just to bring in a disc priest (which is a whole other topic).

    I appreciate the time you took to look this over Surreal and I've (in a non-creepy way) followed you through the many other topics and value your opinion. Thanks!
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  4. #4
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    I'm posting AS the MT and Raid Leader, Kyoshi, so it felt kind of weird reading your reply like you were responding to someone else . I guess I should clarify, I'm curious to know how you arrived at your analysis. I'm guessing the parts you bolded correspond to a specific tab or menu in the WoL site to access all that information?
    That is correct, OP seemed to want an idea of how to analyse a Monk's WoL results so I figured a tab by tab breakdown would be helpful.

    For example, how do you determine that 49 is the number of possible EH uses? Is that just merely dividing the length of the fight by the cd of EH? - Correct. I used it on CD and have a WA that is < 100% health + off CD. Also, you don't have to be in range or even have a target so I use it to build Chi during those moments. Very little reason for it to sit off CD long on any fight.

    so I like tossing out Chi Wave (PB and BoK use permitting) to help out the healers.... How do I determine that my healers are doing a good enough job keeping people up that I don't need to worry about self-preservation as much? - That is a fine philosophy but healing isn't any tanks job it's just a bonus plus your Ox Statue is tossing out Guard's left and right thanks to the boss strike we get. I would say if your buff uptime is good and you are doing that many Chi Waves you should direct some haste into crit and get your EB uptime higher which is still a "self preservation" increase.

    My account is full of tanks and DPS so only healer comment I can make;
    1) HPS is to low from healers though I haven't examined gear levels and don't know how to dissect their logs.
    2) Priest should go Disc and get HPS up, Disc is boss right now.

    This kind of ties into my previous question. As a monk tank, where would I draw the line (if there is one) on self heals? Also will WoL break down how many GOTO orbs I am getting vs. the total number spawned? - No, this fight sucks for GotA due to constantly having to dance around. Just try to grab what you can afterwards waiting for the next dance to begin. FYI from previous mention the orbs can crit heal.

    Is there a way I can filter out the time spent before the bosses even spawn? - Not easily. That is why near 100%'s aren't a big deal with the assumption that your uptime while actually being swung at is close to 100%. My last Will kill was 91% and I know from my UI that it was up while tanking so if you doing the same it's fine.

    I was saving all my CDs (Fort Brew, DH, etc.) for the Titan Gas phase. Would it be more beneficial to use them during the hard hitting periods between the dance instead? - I mostly just save Fort Brew for gas and use DH mostly on CD in between EB buff periods, this includes our first kill when I was in 470's gear. Also, since your first kill will probably be about ~12 min and gas phases are at set times you can do a little math and figure out when to use DH and have it back up for each Gas phase

    than most BMs to try and push my dps as much as possible. We have talked to our priest about trying out disc, but she hates it and would rather stay holy. - BrM's DPS is a side note of our mitigation and actually usually a sign you are doing well unless Guard is being neglected since every other "tank" ability results in rather high damage output. Disc isn't required my first kill was a 12+ min fight with a Holy priest but healers shouldn't be below a tank in HPS. Just suggested as not only would HPS come up but you get juicy CD's for the gas phases and specifically you can call for Pain Suppression in emergencies as a tank.

    I appreciate the time you took to look this over Surreal and I've (in a non-creepy way) followed you through the many other topics and value your opinion. Thanks! - Haha thanks glad some of my ramblings are appreciated.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2013-01-05 at 12:15 AM.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    By going through the tabs and using your longest attempt (12:27) here is what I see
    Damage & Healing by spell
    - Expel Harm: 36 out of a possible 49 uses. Probably could use a little more often.
    That's plenty of times - you don't want to waste it at full, or near full hp.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    - Devastating Arc: 2, this is a good number for such a long fight so he knows the dance.
    Needs to get it to 0. It's easy to dodge 5 in a row.

    Your stagger damage taken is a bit high (purify a little more).

    You should use 2 healers. Your DPS should take very little damage (it's mainly during titan gas "phase") and there's only 2 tanks taking consistent bursts of damage.
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  6. #6
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohassakura View Post
    That's plenty of times - you don't want to waste it at full, or near full hp.

    Needs to get it to 0. It's easy to dodge 5 in a row.
    See my update I feel diff about EH. Example you can use it while running away from the stomp slash and will be up soon enough for when the tank phase resumes with +1 Chi.

    Eh he had to dance for 12 minutes on a progression fight I'm not going to fault someone for messing up only 2 times over that duration.

    Yeah forgot to mention Moderate+ stagger durations were a little high, redirect some Chi Wave chi into PB.

    Oh almost forgot, either I missed it or you didn't use any variety of our L90 talents. Load up Xuen and use that boy on CD for the bosses!
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2013-01-05 at 12:31 AM.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    See my update I feel diff about EH. Example you can use it while running away from the stomp slash and will be up soon enough for when the tank phase resumes with +1 Chi.
    I understand what you're trying to say, but a little conflicted by it. I realize getting that extra chi is awesome, but wouldn't it be better to use a jab instead? Plus i just switched back to power strikes from ascension, so there's an extra chi there as well. I feel that once his heavy melee phase is over and I'm looking at the screen to see where his first swipe will be, by the time I figure that out and process it my healers have healed me up to full, and I'd stay in melee range anyways as I move to just keep more dps on the boss with autoattacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Eh he had to dance for 12 minutes on a progression fight I'm not going to fault someone for messing up only 2 times over that duration.
    Don't worry, I beat myself up about that too, but sometimes that stomp really sneaks up on you! After that try I started weaving in putting transcendance just outside of his stomp range of where I would be tanking the boss, so that if it crept up on me again, all I needed was a half-second cast to gtfo.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Yeah forgot to mention Moderate+ stagger durations were a little high, redirect some Chi Wave chi into PB.
    There's a difference to reading the abilities of a boss fight and actually experiencing them. I usually make it a habit of purifying right when I hit heavy stagger, although if I have to adjust my play style for this fight I will.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Oh almost forgot, either I missed it or you didn't use any variety of our L90 talents. Load up Xuen and use that boy on CD for the bosses!
    I'm POSITIVE I popped Xuen during titan gas phases Although I believe the CD on titan gas is about 2 min 30 seconds (xuen cd is 3 min)? But yes, I definitely try to have this ability on CD.
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    See my update I feel diff about EH. Example you can use it while running away from the stomp slash and will be up soon enough for when the tank phase resumes with +1 Chi.

    Eh he had to dance for 12 minutes on a progression fight I'm not going to fault someone for messing up only 2 times over that duration.
    If he can dump his energy before he has to run from stomp, then there shouldn't be any problem.

    If you have 15 energy regen then it'd take 6 seconds to get full energy (assuming 0-10 energy) whereas each cast is 3 seconds each, so that gives you 3 seconds to get back in. Note that you can just roll out of the stomps at 1.5-2 seconds left of the cast and then you're safe, so you do have a bit of breathing room.

    He already has 48% overheal with EH. - Maybe more effective use would be a good point, although some people love topping their hp up when they're on 80% so it's a bit up to how you want to use it.

    This is my most recent heroic kill: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/mg18r...?s=4617&e=5197 I got 7.6% overheal with EH, and my heal for a lot more.

    It's true that he's progressing (so some hits are "okay") but you also have the chance to practise on LFR, where the dodge mechanic there is exactly the same.
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