[Megathread] Titan Speculation

[Sephiracle]

Snip

I'm not redefining anything, you just don't see 400k being a worthwhile number, and that's fine. Short term retention is a concern of WoW, and all subscription based games.

You're however, ignoring that the low point of Cataclysm was 9.1m subs, and this was with a year lull before Mists, the latest number is 9.6m, and this is during an expansion. They lost some 1.1m subs during that lull, so as we can probably assume prior to the next expansion there will be another big lull it will drop below their previous low. It might pop up a little due to holiday subs, but overall you'll probably see a continual decrease as people do precisely what you do, resub when patches release, play for a bit, unsub, rinse repeat.

I'm not trying to diminish what Blizzard has done, and I'm not really sure why everyone that's posted to discuss this thinks I'm trying to, I'm simply just stating the facts that WoW's best days are behind it. Unfortunately as the fanboys are quick to run to the defense of Blizzard and WoW they're derailing the thread making it seem like I'm saying WoW is over and done, when I'm just trying to say that while WoW's numbers are dropping, they need to generate some buzz to keep their loyal fanbase with their company and this new project, instead of moving on. Otherwise Titan could potentially never live up to the potential it has, and can't ever get out of WoW's shadow, which is a tough task on its own.

[unholytestament]

Yeah, how dare those fanboys take issue with your sensationalist wording of the issue! Don't they know they're supposed to back off when you move the goal posts and back peddle?

...and for some strange reason specify this is a third party forum...?

[Kelimbror]

I'm not redefining anything

You change your argument every time someone refutes your nonsense.

You're however, ignoring that the low point of Cataclysm was 9.1m subs, and this was with a year lull before Mists, the latest number is 9.6m, and this is during an expansion. They lost some 1.1m subs during that lull, so as we can probably assume prior to the next expansion there will be another big lull it will drop below their previous low.

Can we probably assume that? Is there some reason why one happening of data means it's going to happen again? That's what is wrong with assumptions. You don't have enough data to even remotely move an assumption into the realm of probability. So while I can agree if they lost subs it wouldn't be surprising, I don't know what to expect. For all I know they will hit another home run with whatever the next expansion is and they will go up to larger subs than they've ever had.

Additionally, you are implying that the game is the cause as you say IT is falling off. Reality is closer to the fact that subscriptions in general are on a decline as F2P/B2P is on a rise. You are drawing conclusions from data that don't exist. Also, Cata was a piece of trash and we can all agree on that. Mists might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it does not suffer from any of the problems that Cata had in terms of a dearth of the game.

I'm not trying to diminish what Blizzard has done, and I'm not really sure why everyone that's posted to discuss this thinks I'm trying to, I'm simply just stating the facts that WoW's best days are behind it. Unfortunately as the fanboys are quick to run to the defense of Blizzard and WoW they're derailing the thread making it seem like I'm saying WoW is over and done

Hmm, ok. Considering that most people responding to you are certainly not White Knighting for anyone, it's awfully rude (not to mention technically against the rules) to insult people as such. Just because you are wrong doesn't mean you need to label other people as 'fanboys'.

Thanks.

[Sephiracle]

You change your argument every time someone refutes your nonsense.

Honestly, I'm not sure how you can't understand the connection between subs falling from their peak and better day's are in their past.

Can we probably assume that? Is there some reason why one happening of data means it's going to happen again? That's what is wrong with assumptions. You don't have enough data to even remotely move an assumption into the realm of probability. So while I can agree if they lost subs it wouldn't be surprising, I don't know what to expect. For all I know they will hit another home run with whatever the next expansion is and they will go up to larger subs than they've ever had.

Additionally, you are implying that the game is the cause as you say IT is falling off. Reality is closer to the fact that subscriptions in general are on a decline as F2P/B2P is on a rise. You are drawing conclusions from data that don't exist. Also, Cata was a piece of trash and we can all agree on that. Mists might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it does not suffer from any of the problems that Cata had in terms of a dearth of the game.

I think after several expansions we can assume a few things unless Blizzard greatly changed their release windows.
1. There will be a lull between expansions and they will bleed subs(They mitigated this somewhat with the year pass and D3 beta/game)
2. They will gain a large number of subs at release, and increase a bit afterwards.
3. It will fall off again gradually, depending on various factors

Also, I have already touched on that F2P/B2P is taking a hit on WoW, with my original statement that people are up in arms over my 'sensational' wording. MMO's seem to have plateaued. WoW you can almost guarantee peaked already as far as subs go(Although a lot of you seem to think that's not the case)

Hmm, ok. Considering that most people responding to you are certainly not White Knighting for anyone, it's awfully rude (not to mention technically against the rules) to insult people as such. Just because you are wrong doesn't mean you need to label other people as 'fanboys'.

It's not any less rude to introduce sarcasm, unrealistic ideals, or snarky comments.

I'm only simply saying that Blizzard should start to generate buzz with their WoW subscribers if they want Titan to succeed while they still have a good long term loyal fanbase. Apparently my 'sensational' wording put a few of you on edge, and that wasn't my intention.

[llDemonll]

I'm only simply saying that Blizzard should start to generate buzz with their WoW subscribers if they want Titan to succeed while they still have a good long term loyal fanbase. Apparently my 'sensational' wording put a few of you on edge, and that wasn't my intention.

How do you propose they "generate buzz" with no game details in the public eye? I'm sure they will do just fine generating buzz when the time comes to release this whole project

[unholytestament]

I'm only simply saying that Blizzard should start to generate buzz with their WoW subscribers if they want Titan to succeed while they still have a good long term loyal fanbase. Apparently my 'sensational' wording put a few of you on edge, and that wasn't my intention.

Then in the future it would no doubt be much wiser to say just that rather than load the statement with strongly worded observations on the current state of WoW which you then later have to redefine and clarify.

On this third party forum.

[Sephiracle]

How do you propose they "generate buzz" with no game details in the public eye? I'm sure they will do just fine generating buzz when the time comes to release this whole project

They will probably do fine when the time comes. I think doing more than not saying anything about it would be more than what they've done so far. Titan was originally brought up in 07? We're 6 years from that and haven't seen any visuals or anything. I would just like to see something, and I'm sure there are plenty that agree.

Although maybe they're planning on creating the game to connect PC and next gen consoles, and it's just a matter of time when they can do that effectively before they talk too much more about it. That would certainly fulfill it being a 'Titan' wouldn't it?

[unholytestament]

They will probably do fine when the time comes. I think doing more than not saying anything about it would be more than what they've done so far. Titan was originally brought up in 07? We're 6 years from that and haven't seen any visuals or anything. I would just like to see something, and I'm sure there are plenty that agree.

And then there are those who disagree based on their experiences (be it on this third party forum or otherwise) of people complaining about things changing between announcement and release.

There's probably already folks who think titanfocus' leak is holy gospel and will bitch up a storm if any or all of it ''changes''.

[Kelimbror]

It's not any less rude to introduce sarcasm, unrealistic ideals, or snarky comments.

Excuse me, let me rephrase rude to 'slandering'. Since you are just making up bullshit about people. Also, being sarcastic isn't against the forum rules. Also-also, I only seem snarky because you don't like that you're wrong. I didn't need to resort to name calling, straw men, and backpedal deflections for my argument.

I'm only simply saying that Blizzard should start to generate buzz with their WoW subscribers if they want Titan to succeed while they still have a good long term loyal fanbase. Apparently my 'sensational' wording put a few of you on edge, and that wasn't my intention.

Except that's not what you were saying at all. But now that you have said it, we can say..ok. Might be a good strategy. Who knows? I'm sure we'll find out at Blizzcon this year.

[wombinator04]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKTH6...layer_embedded

Sorry. I just had to post this here.

There's not one time where I don't laugh at this.

[tenzing21]

Some Titan info floating on the net: you play as one of three classes, a neo-anarchist groupie, a japanese style mecha-using cyborgish faction, and the overlord class. The overlords are related to the Titan in the "Titan" working title; they have come to earth to steal a resource that keeps life vibrant and flourishing. You can play purely as a non-combattant, on Wii, Psvita, and facebook, and apparently battle.net. The MMO part is Team Fortress, where you interact with the Titans, and then you have quests that allow you to interface with the non-combatants by leaving the Team Fortressy area

All of this is done over a grand scale of time-travelling, and you server-hop or shard shuffle, however you wanna put it. So if you don't want what one shard has to offer, you pick and choose others.

[Kelimbror]

*snip*.

If any of this is true it will be the biggest waste of millions of dollars and 6+ years I've ever heard of.

[Syld]

You can play purely as a non-combattant, on Wii, Psvita, and facebook, and apparently battle.net. The MMO part is Team Fortress, where you interact with the Titans, and then you have quests that allow you to interface with the non-combatants by leaving the Team Fortressy area

All of this is done over a grand scale of time-travelling, and you server-hop or shard shuffle, however you wanna put it. So if you don't want what one shard has to offer, you pick and choose others.

This doesn't make any sense

[tenzing21]

Ok, let me explain. There is a combat side and a purely non-combat social aspect to Titan- you go out into a huge battle against mecha-esque constructs (Titans), you vie for resources. Everyone who chooses to fight a la Team Fortress, does so against EVERYONE ELSE in the game who is choosing to fight. You can do quests, and accomplish objectives in this realm. When you have had your fill of fighting, you pick a shard. Each shard is community owned, ran, managed, created, and controlled. If you like the community in shard alpha, you spend your time there, if not, shard beta might be more to your liking; it will not have the same layout or "feel" as the other shards. If all you wanna do is hang in the non-comabt world, fine. You can have fun just as much as the next guy. But combat will never come to you.

[philefluxx]

If any of this is true it will be the biggest waste of millions of dollars and 6+ years I've ever heard of.

I think its going to be a big waste regardless. Just like WoW players, Blizzard will never be able to recreate the feeling that came with WoW in the early years.

Ok, let me explain. There is a combat side and a purely non-combat social aspect to Titan- you go out into a huge battle against mecha-esque constructs (Titans), you vie for resources. Everyone who chooses to fight a la Team Fortress, does so against EVERYONE ELSE in the game who is choosing to fight. You can do quests, and accomplish objectives in this realm. When you have had your fill of fighting, you pick a shard. Each shard is community owned, ran, managed, created, and controlled. If you like the community in shard alpha, you spend your time there, if not, shard beta might be more to your liking; it will not have the same layout or "feel" as the other shards. If all you wanna do is hang in the non-comabt world, fine. You can have fun just as much as the next guy. But combat will never come to you.

Could be interesting. I like the idea of player controlled and organized worlds.

[Kathandira]

If what Tenzing says really is true, i'm not very interested, sadly = /

I know the rumors are that this will be a FPS, but dear lord, I wish it was not true.

[Planetarism]

I think what Tenzing said makes a -lot- of sense regarding all the bits Blizz execs have shared about this already. It all fits what their explicit & implied goals are, audience aimed for, lessons learned from WoW's server infrastructure's limits, how they've been wanting to take advantage of consoles and social media networks' explosively far-reaching appeal & integrated easy-of-use (several tens of thousands of Farmville/Cityville/etc monthly users for a few years.. from a seemingly pretty basic game design & platform, too)..

What's also telling, to me, is MoP's non-typical new lore/original species & myths, as an obvious test bed for "We've done TBC based on a decade of Draenor Lore/Illidan/Kael etc from WC2 & such, We've done WotLK based on a half-decade+ of WC3 lore, We've done Cataclysm based on WC2/Classic WoW storylines, are we really capable of doing an entirely new IP or even a new, original direction in an existing IP?? If people are able to enjoy the MoP story, the Mogu, Pandaren, Klaxxi, all the new species players had -never- even heard of before, well, maybe it can prepare us & convince our publishing executives, etc that Titan can really work!"

[Celista]

What's also telling, to me, is MoP's non-typical new lore/original species & myths, as an obvious test bed for "We've done TBC based on a decade of Draenor Lore/Illidan/Kael etc from WC2 & such, We've done WotLK based on a half-decade+ of WC3 lore, We've done Cataclysm based on WC2/Classic WoW storylines, are we really capable of doing an entirely new IP or even a new, original direction in an existing IP?? If people are able to enjoy the MoP story, the Mogu, Pandaren, Klaxxi, all the new species players had -never- even heard of before, well, maybe it can prepare us & convince our publishing executives, etc that Titan can really work!"

I would have preferred expanding upon the old lore. There are so many unfinished storylines...example: Calia Menethil, former almost-fiancee of Deathwing, and heir to Loredaeron, sister to Arthas...

..she's not dead, Blizzard just hasn't done anything with her yet.

Tbh MoP lore is not that great. I can honestly say it does not engage me the way Vanilla, BC and Wrath lore did.


On to the actual topic...Tenzing was just sharing some rumors, and based on all of the Diablo/Starcraft/Wow rumors I have heard come to pass...maybe 0.001% of them were actually true.

[Laere]

How would it fit into e-sports then, such as games like LoL, Dota, etc.? Because, I remember them saying they were shooting for e-sports as well.

And, if, IF, what Tenzing said has some valid truth to it, then I really, really don't think it's going to have that huge appeal to already hardcore WoW fans. I don't know, it just sounds too...unappealing.

[tenzing21]

All I posted was rumors. But the sources claim they have direct knowledge of game mechanics. So do what you will with it...