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  1. #1

    What do you do if your server fails hard at PvP?

    Recently resubbed and Im enjoying everything except PvP. I play Empire side on Jedi Covenant and its worse than anything I have ever experienced in any MMO. I would actually love to have my 32% win rate I had playing Alliance. We dont even win close to that. Im lucky if I get 2-3 wins out of 20 WZs played and those wins are only against other Imp teams. If its a Pub team I just get a few medals and then AFK because theres no point in getting spawn camped as soon as we jump down after rezzing unless some people actually find that fun...I dont.

    How do you force your team to not suck so bad? I quit several months ago mainly because we were so bad. So I dont understand how we can still be bad. Its like no one got better in the months I was gone. Will I be forced to just faction hop or worse, switch servers. I have a lot of credits and my Legacy level is very high and also have maxed out crewskills including Cybertech with high level schematics and also all purples for any alts that I dont want to leave behind. Should I just suck it up and suffer through loss after loss until they add a cartel item for a server transfer? I didnt want to be on this server anyways as the one I started on we actually won most WZs.
    Last edited by Dabrix32; 2012-12-25 at 06:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    If its a Pub team I just get a few medals and then AFK because theres no point in getting spawn camped as soon as we jump down after rezzing unless some people actually find that fun...I dont.
    Problem, meet root . Just won the new warzone after my team was behind 20% vs 92%. 8 man teams are small enough that two people or even one in case of healers can make a difference. Also the reward system makes sure that you progress even when losing the majority of your matches. If that's still inacceptable, q up with two or three guildies. Server pvp imbalances aren't carved in stone; if you reroll now, balance may have shifted when you are 50.

  3. #3
    The thing is my old server reminded me of my alliance days. Getting camped at rez point in AV while they only 1 capped just so they could farm you longer. Or getting GY camped in WSG for the full 25 mins. Its not fun and the thing is you are forced to sit there and take your beating because blizzard enjoys people suffering like that and thus imposed a deserter debuff to make you stay there and take it. At least in SWToR you can quit out without getting punished for being put on a team full of herpderps. But the rewards for losing are still very good. Its better to lose fast than to lose slow because you dont get bonus points for effort. So if you are getting spawn camped at Civil War as soon as you jump down and the same at Coast then just run somewhere and AFK. You are going to lose anyways if you are getting camped so theres no need to get frustrated and rage cause that accomplishes nothing. Just relax have a beer, tab to some porn, and wait for it to be over.

  4. #4
    They should a deserter debuff just as well in SWTOR... the amount of people quitting for no better reason than it's not totally facerolling and they would have to do something is by far larger than people dropping out when they are outmatched.

    People like above poster are just one of the reasons why you have such warzones after all and people start camping in civil war when they are 10-20 points behind. Camping in Novare Coast is absolutely not understandable. Usually it already starts at the start... 3-4 go north, rest goes south = south is lost, your team takes north but fails to take the other north = no coordination = you'll lose. However it is up to your team to turn it around, sitting or camping somewhere does accomplish nothing and I really wonder why people even do pvp if this is too much to ask for. Communication.
    Last edited by Psychlon; 2012-12-26 at 07:33 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    They should a deserter debuff just as well in SWTOR... the amount of people quitting for no better reason than it's not totally facerolling and they would have to do something is by far larger than people dropping out when they are outmatched.

    People like above poster are just one of the reasons why you have such warzones after all and people start camping in civil war when they are 10-20 points behind. Camping in Novare Coast is absolutely not understandable. Usually it already starts at the start... 3-4 go north, rest goes south = south is lost, your team takes north but fails to take the other north = no coordination = you'll lose. However it is up to your team to turn it around, sitting or camping somewhere does accomplish nothing and I really wonder why people even do pvp if this is too much to ask for. Communication.
    You sound like you have never been on the losing side in PvP. Im not talking about a streak of a few games or even a few days either. Im talking losing 10+ in a row every single day for months. Eventually you just give up because its human nature. At a certain point it no longer becomes fun but you force yourself to keep doing it because you think "eventually I have to get one a winning streak" but it never happens. It happened to me in real life when I sold time share. I started off good but then went on a streak of 4 months when I didnt sell anything no matter how hard I tried and eventually I got fired. After that I never tried it again because of how demoralizing it is to fail every time you tried to do something. Its no different in a game and you cant change human nature. If you could companies making antidepressants wouldnt be making billions. If you start losing and losing more and it happens over weeks and then months then you eventually just give up hope of ever winning. Its why WoW made probably millions off of Faction transfers because people got tired of losing 14 in a row every day. Do you know how long it takes to do daily PvP wins on 6 characters when you lose 12+ in a row? I think my record has been 32 losses in a row and that was in SWToR. My worst weekend of PvP was in WoW when I played 75 and won 4. Please tell me how that wont demoralize any gamer? Also you cant do anything about it because the rest of your team has been losing forever as well and they all have the same mentality.

  6. #6
    Probably the first thing I would do is change my PvP play times. Depending on the time of day or even the day of the week you can get wildly varying win rates. For instance on Bastion I found Republic wins more readily during prime time hours than during after hours. Focus your play time during those times.

    Another alternative is to change your spec to a more PvP/group oriented spec like healing and/or tanking.

    But if you are losing ALL the time no matter what you do you might want to think about joining a guild or grouping up.

    If all else fails roll the other side.

    I've been in some abysmal groups where nothing I did mattered but if you losing game after game without ever winning and never having what I like to call "a shining moment" for yourself then you need to seriously get better because it is very likely that you are the cause for your failures. WZs in Star Wars isn't like WoW where you have 9-39 people carrying you to victory. You actually have to contribute to your win.

    When a flag gets ninja'ed is your attitude why was no one guarding the flag? Or is it why was *I* not there to stop them from capping?
    When you lose a point is your attitude why did no one come to help me? Or is it what could *I* have done to delay them longer?

    One attitude you are blaming everyone else the other is owning up to your responsibility to your team. The latter attitude leads to wins the former leads to loss after loss.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Revik View Post
    One attitude you are blaming everyone else the other is owning up to your responsibility to your team. The latter attitude leads to wins the former leads to loss after loss.
    One person cant magically make the others better. I cant solo snow or grass in Civil War defended by 3 other people because the rest of my team decides to stay at mid. Same as I cant solo 3 people at East or West in Coast b/c again my entire team wants to turtle South. Try getting them to come help you is like trying to get them to shoot their mother. Dont get me started on Voidstar I have lost 99% of those game without even breaking through the first gate. In WoW you could carry a bad team if you were a healer in 10 mans but not here cause you will just get camped the entire match after they find out you can heal making it even less fun and making you want to AFK even more. Also Blizzard fixed the premade vs pug thing because before I quit WoW I never ran against a premade when in previous years all we did was get camped by premades. Bioware on the other hand doesnt care and seems to want to run more people off by letting the same premades camp you 24/7. Also you cant escape them either cause no matter what time of day it is they have enough members to throw premades at you all day long making you lose nearly 100% of your matches.

  8. #8
    I stand in a corner and dance the night away.
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  9. #9
    @Lilly32 - Then why are you not grouping up? Why haven't you joined a pvp guild? It seems like most of your issues can be solved by grouping up yourself.

    I see you have taken an excerpt from my post but neglected to comment on the rest. But I will not be so rude to you and respond to each of your points.

    You getting marked as a healer and then getting crapped on is how people are supposed to play. If you are getting away with that in WoW that is just because the caliber of players in WoW are lower. That being said all your games cannot be like this and if it does group up with a tank problem solved.

    You can still play against premades in WoW the only difference is that full teams can play in RBGs where as in SWTOR RWZs are not as popular. I play against many premades in WoW as a pug and do just fine.

    If you really are playing a healer in SWTOR then you should have no problems finding a group. Everyone loves playing with healers especially DPS. You should be leveraging that advantage to group up.

    If all else fails roll the other side. You can start pvping at level 10.

    I also like to note that not one single thing you mentioned had any iota of you taking any responsibility for your losses. Which I want to say is part of the problem. Not the whole of it but part of it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    One person cant magically make the others better. I cant solo snow or grass in Civil War defended by 3 other people because the rest of my team decides to stay at mid. Same as I cant solo 3 people at East or West in Coast b/c again my entire team wants to turtle South. Try getting them to come help you is like trying to get them to shoot their mother. Dont get me started on Voidstar I have lost 99% of those game without even breaking through the first gate. In WoW you could carry a bad team if you were a healer in 10 mans but not here cause you will just get camped the entire match after they find out you can heal making it even less fun and making you want to AFK even more. Also Blizzard fixed the premade vs pug thing because before I quit WoW I never ran against a premade when in previous years all we did was get camped by premades. Bioware on the other hand doesnt care and seems to want to run more people off by letting the same premades camp you 24/7. Also you cant escape them either cause no matter what time of day it is they have enough members to throw premades at you all day long making you lose nearly 100% of your matches.
    The one person who makes it "magically" better is the one which runs grass/ snow to interrupt the other team. One person who can keep people from tapping by hiding/ stunning etc. calling incs before they already tapped through. The other person who makes it "magically" better is who will assist that first person an the third/ fourth person who makes it better are the ones which react to an inc mentioned in your operation chat.

    However as you are apparently a healer, that's not your job to do. Your job is to position yourself to make it as difficult as possible for other player to get onto you while keeping all players in range to heal. (Civil War in the middle behind the post up on the ledge, having the boost right next to you for example and keep movable if needed)

    DD classes objectives are to locate/ focus healers or take over quickly an objective.

    Tanks obviously should guard healers/ melee dd's and take dd's of the healers/ lowering their damage.


    If you can't find this in random warzone groups (which I find higly unlikely) group up with players which show some skill/ join a pvp group/ guild. As the nature of the matchup is working, there has to be moments when you group against the same monkeys which camped at 490-500 in civil war in the last game and now they "magically" farm you the same way the other group did before? Unlikely.

    I had my fair share of terrible groups but I still win most of my matches just by playing objectives in low and high lvl brackets.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    If you can't find this in random warzone groups (which I find higly unlikely) group up with players which show some skill/ join a pvp group/ guild. As the nature of the matchup is working, there has to be moments when you group against the same monkeys which camped at 490-500 in civil war in the last game and now they "magically" farm you the same way the other group did before? Unlikely.

    I had my fair share of terrible groups but I still win most of my matches just by playing objectives in low and high lvl brackets.
    This guy knows what I am talking about. If you want to win you have to take matters into your own hands. If you group up with just 2 more people you have upped your odds of winning WZs like Huttball by an enormous amount.

    @Lilly32 - You have to quit having a defeatist, victim attitude and realize that yes you can make a difference.

  12. #12
    The best way to have fun in pvp is to play with friends, half the time its not even about the win its all about the laughs. Only time i play solo is when i wanna just blast some music and mid fight like a douche.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Revik View Post
    @Lilly32 - You have to quit having a defeatist, victim attitude and realize that yes you can make a difference.
    4 years of constant losing in every game you played tends to do this.When I PvPed in UO I was cocky, PKed everyone, and had multiple houses filled with loot from my kills. Same with DAoC. Had a blast because usually one side wasnt down for long. I remember my side having every tower and keep taken by one of the other 2 factions but like 4. We rallied and took all of ours and then assaulted another faction and took half of theirs in a single night. It was WoW that ruined PvP for me when Alliance couldnt win a PuG BG even if you placed guns next to everyone's heads and said win or we kill you. No matter what there was no swing in the balance of power. It was just loss after loss. Its the reason I was forced to bot in WoW because you lost so much it was just demoralizing. Id rather just let a bot play for me and go play some Madden or CoD than have everyone raging at each other blaming the losses on everyone else.
    Last edited by Lilly32; 2012-12-27 at 10:28 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    4 years of constant losing in every game you played tends to do this.When I PvPed in UO I was cocky, PKed everyone, and had multiple houses filled with loot from my kills. Same with DAoC. Had a blast because usually one side wasnt down for long. I remember my side having every tower and keep taken by one of the other 2 factions but like 4. We rallied and took all of ours and then assaulted another faction and took half of theirs in a single night. It was WoW that ruined PvP for me when Alliance couldnt win a PuG BG even if you placed guns next to everyone's heads and said win or we kill you. No matter what there was no swing in the balance of power. It was just loss after loss. Its the reason I was forced to bot in WoW because you lost so much it was just demoralizing. Id rather just let a bot play for me and go play some Madden or CoD than have everyone raging at each other blaming the losses on everyone else.
    From your description I would say that PvP is just not your thing. PvP is a very humbling experience for the untalented or the ungifted and most people can't handle the fact that they might suck. But it is from that humble perspective that one actually gets better.

    Judging from your experiences it sounds like you got used to getting carried by many others or ganking the unsuspecting bystander but when it came to pulling your own weight in group or team play you cant be bothered with such responsibility.

    There is nothing wrong with feeling that way either. This is a game after all and it is supposed to be fun. One thing you have to realize is that botting and going afk is making you part of the problem not the solution and by doing so you are ruining the fun of others.

    Another question: If you are not serious about PvP why bother with that aspect of that game at all? Like you said just play other games to get your PvP fix and leave that part of the game alone for other to enjoy.

    Also waiting on a response as to why you are not grouping.
    Last edited by Revik; 2012-12-27 at 11:20 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Revik View Post
    Also waiting on a response as to why you are not grouping.
    I enjoy PvP. I guess if I didnt care about PvP then I wouldnt get upset over losing. Also I had horrible experiences running in tradechat premades in WoW and refuse to ever do it again. It might be different in this game but for now Im going solo. Also why does everyone always say "Just group up" I know its a MMO and all but I just like doing things solo. Also please dont anyone say just play games like CoD if you like solo PvP because unless you plan on buying me a PS3 or X-Box 360 thats not an option

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    I enjoy PvP. I guess if I didnt care about PvP then I wouldnt get upset over losing. Also I had horrible experiences running in tradechat premades in WoW and refuse to ever do it again. It might be different in this game but for now Im going solo. Also why does everyone always say "Just group up" I know its a MMO and all but I just like doing things solo. Also please dont anyone say just play games like CoD if you like solo PvP because unless you plan on buying me a PS3 or X-Box 360 thats not an option
    As someone on Jedi Covenant, I can attest that at level 50, Imps do face a skill shortfall vs. the average Rep groups. However, going afk in a match will not help things get better. Were I to see you going afk in a match, I'd make sure your name was known in gen chat as "a guy who gives up and afks easily." If you want to play solo, get a tank AC or just go dps. If you're a merc, then yeah, you're going to have a hard time of it, as mercs get the short end of the stick in pvp. They're viable pre-50, but at 50 you either need to be skilled and motivated, a part of a group, or both, if you don't want to live a painful pvp life. You can't just say "this sucks" and give up while still queueing and and going afk to make others' lives harder.

    Like the others, I've been in too many games where a motivated group came together to come back from behind. If you're getting spawn camped (which isn't really possible outside of huttball), don't run to where they're camping. The majority of civil wars don't result in republic 3 capping, so there's another way down that doesn't involve you blindly running forward expecting that maybe this time things will be different. In Novare, same thing, in void star, same thing (only one way down at the end, but I've never seen that camped). I've pvp'd a majority on the rep side at 50, and except for real clusters of teams, every Emp team has stood somewhat of a chance. If you really enjoy pvp, grouping up is an easy way to increase your success rate. If you insist on not getting a guild or a group, then you have to make conscious decisions about how you approach pvp if you want to improve your odds. And with the elimination of BM gear, it's easy to get the base level of stats you need. Augment main stat on top of that (or power, depending on your preference), and you should be in a good place, as long as you're not getting focused down. if you're getting focused all the time, the only way to prevent that is to have teammates helping you, via guard, taunt, and general target assistance.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mooftak View Post
    As someone on Jedi Covenant, I can attest that at level 50, Imps do face a skill shortfall vs. the average Rep groups. However, going afk in a match will not help things get better. Were I to see you going afk in a match, I'd make sure your name was known in gen chat as "a guy who gives up and afks easily." If you want to play solo, get a tank AC or just go dps. If you're a merc, then yeah, you're going to have a hard time of it, as mercs get the short end of the stick in pvp. They're viable pre-50, but at 50 you either need to be skilled and motivated, a part of a group, or both, if you don't want to live a painful pvp life. You can't just say "this sucks" and give up while still queueing and and going afk to make others' lives harder.

    Like the others, I've been in too many games where a motivated group came together to come back from behind. If you're getting spawn camped (which isn't really possible outside of huttball), don't run to where they're camping. The majority of civil wars don't result in republic 3 capping, so there's another way down that doesn't involve you blindly running forward expecting that maybe this time things will be different. In Novare, same thing, in void star, same thing (only one way down at the end, but I've never seen that camped). I've pvp'd a majority on the rep side at 50, and except for real clusters of teams, every Emp team has stood somewhat of a chance. If you really enjoy pvp, grouping up is an easy way to increase your success rate. If you insist on not getting a guild or a group, then you have to make conscious decisions about how you approach pvp if you want to improve your odds. And with the elimination of BM gear, it's easy to get the base level of stats you need. Augment main stat on top of that (or power, depending on your preference), and you should be in a good place, as long as you're not getting focused down. if you're getting focused all the time, the only way to prevent that is to have teammates helping you, via guard, taunt, and general target assistance.
    I play a full tank-Sin. I figure the Juggs, Maras, and Snipers can kill people I usually focus on just harassing people trying to cap or guarding a healer and peeling for them while throwing out stuns. That is if we even have a healer. If not I will just guard the person trying to go for objectives. If its Coast or Civil War I can solo guard until backup arrives as a full tank spec which lets my team use more man power to try and take another side. But it never works as I get zerged and no one comes or they spend the entire match trying to take a 2nd objective but never do. Most of the time when I have the ball in Huttball I look around and all I see are red names. Its alliance idiots fighting at mid all over again. Its just not fun playing as Empire on that server. I know losing is part of PvP but losing 15 in a row IS NOT part of PvP. Waiting for them to restore my characters that somehow got deleted and then will decide what to do. Either rerolling Pub or going to another server. I will probably just go to another server as I dont want to switch sides. Losing almost every single match you join is not my idea of fun and its the main reason I quit in the first place.
    Last edited by Lilly32; 2012-12-30 at 07:47 PM.

  18. #18
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    Gotcha. For some reason, via my read previously, I thought you were a healer. If you do reroll, make sure you do some research first and figure out which pvp servers actually have decent balance in skill levels, if not numbers. It's too bad you don't like grouping up, a good tankasin is a fun asset to have in the mix.

  19. #19
    I also play on Jedi Covenant, and there is a real noticable difference between imp and pub pvp on our server. I've noticed that imp side tends to be full of people who are much more focused on complaining about their teammates and finding someone to blame rather than actually trying to constructively work together to try and win, and then act like there's no way they could ever be part of any issues a team may be having. You get that on pub side as well, but its a problem with almost every match when playing imp side, especially pre-50.

    I would say, just try to find a guild or group of friends to group up for pvp, but going afk in a match is not going to help at all.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbaru1924 View Post
    I also play on Jedi Covenant, and there is a real noticable difference between imp and pub pvp on our server. I've noticed that imp side tends to be full of people who are much more focused on complaining about their teammates and finding someone to blame rather than actually trying to constructively work together to try and win, and then act like there's no way they could ever be part of any issues a team may be having. You get that on pub side as well, but its a problem with almost every match when playing imp side, especially pre-50.

    I would say, just try to find a guild or group of friends to group up for pvp, but going afk in a match is not going to help at all.
    I'm not sure where you get the idea that pre-50 imps are any worse than pubs. Have you played lowbie lately? I do the majority of my lowbie pvp on my emp lowbies (assassin, jug, marauder, merc, sniper, and shadow are my lowbies atm), and I don't notice much difference between the 2 sides when it comes to teamwork, effort, or communication. At 50 yes, the imp side seems to have more complainers and the pub side seems to have more "we're gonna stick with this until the clock hits 0" types.

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