Is this a scam or banable?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Don't pretend it is true. I know four people who bot on a regular basis for mats and such to either sell or use. You see the bots in bg's only get worse. You see tons of hackers hack flying in lowby pandaria areas. They don't ever ban anyone for anything. If they did the bots I reported all through cata for botting in Uldum would have been gone and not seen in the pandaria areas.

Ancedotal evidence is bad. I reported a bot and it disappeared. /gasp And since your lack of knowledge of how Blizzard handle bots I'm not surprised. I'm not pretending it's true, IT IS TRUE. You just have some jaded view and think Blizzard doesn't care. If you know them then report them instead of sitting idle and doing nothing.

No than bubba gets to see what your insides feel like

Or the Forum Yeti will eat him.

[endersblade]

Lol...I did something similar back in Wrath. I logged into a second account, and on my main account, I posted an item to sell in trade for 'best offer'. As soon as someone started to bid, I'd use my second account to inflate the price. If my second account ended up winning because nobody else would outbid after a certain point, I'd whisper the last bidder and tell them the winner logged off or something :-) I sold so many things that way.

Is it scamming? Sure. If nobody finds out, or hell, even if they do, who cares? It isn't anything blizzard is going to cry over. It isn't the sort of scamming they're interested in. You aren't stealing anything from them; they give you gold, you give them the item(s). While they may have paid an inflated price for it, it still isn't considered stealing.

[Lillemus]

The person bought an item off the AH for the price it was listed. No scam there.
You back out of a transaction before anything changes hands. No scam there.

If I agree to buy an item, for whatever reason, it qualifies as misinformation to acquire another persons possessions. If your example holds up no crafter could ever feel safe if someone wants to buy a finished item, for instance some person says: "WTB Bloodforged gloves 30k" and a BS thinks: "Ok, the mats only cost 20k, I can net a nice profit here" talks to the person, confirms that they are interested, crafts the gloves, and then the person backs out.
The wording can ofc be interpreted in different ways, and in the case of the crafter, I'm gonna guess a GM would agree with the crafter (regardless of whether or not the buyer actually had any profit), and in the case of the buyer actually making money and thus "acquiring another persons possessions through misinformation, confusion or fraud" it's pretty clear imo. This is not a court of law where you are innocent until proven guilty, you are innocent until Blizzard says you're not.

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 07:47 AM ----------

Lol...I did something similar back in Wrath. I logged into a second account, and on my main account, I posted an item to sell in trade for 'best offer'. As soon as someone started to bid, I'd use my second account to inflate the price. If my second account ended up winning because nobody else would outbid after a certain point, I'd whisper the last bidder and tell them the winner logged off or something :-) I sold so many things that way.

Is it scamming? Sure. If nobody finds out, or hell, even if they do, who cares? It isn't anything blizzard is going to cry over. It isn't the sort of scamming they're interested in. You aren't stealing anything from them; they give you gold, you give them the item(s). While they may have paid an inflated price for it, it still isn't considered stealing.

I actually disagree, you inflating the price through bidding on your own item does not change the outcome, the buyer still wants the item, and payed a price he found acceptable. In OPs case he wants a person to buy an item (that they don't want) off AH in order to flip it for profit by selling it to his alt, OP makes money and the person who bought the item off AH is stuck with an item he has no need for.

[Aquamonkey]

If I agree to buy an item, for whatever reason, it qualifies as misinformation to acquire another persons possessions. If your example holds up no crafter could ever feel safe if someone wants to buy a finished item, for instance some person says: "WTB Bloodforged gloves 30k" and a BS thinks: "Ok, the mats only cost 20k, I can net a nice profit here" talks to the person, confirms that they are interested, crafts the gloves, and then the person backs out.
The wording can ofc be interpreted in different ways, and in the case of the crafter, I'm gonna guess a GM would agree with the crafter (regardless of whether or not the buyer actually had any profit), and in the case of the buyer actually making money and thus "acquiring another persons possessions through misinformation, confusion or fraud" it's pretty clear imo. This is not a court of law where you are innocent until proven guilty, you are innocent until Blizzard says you're not.

The thing is, that crafter still has the item they can sell. They weren't conned out of anything.

[Brewski]

I remember I did this in another game but instead of using the AH I used a friend... made tons of money from it but never got banned.

[Lillemus]

The thing is, that crafter still has the item they can sell. They weren't conned out of anything.

And what if he is unable to sell it for at least the 20k? He has no guarantee that he can actually make a profit, so if he loses gold he was conned. And no matter what, the crafter now has to spend time and energy trying to sell the item.

Edit: Also, if verbal agreements would not hold up in WoW, PuG raiding would be horrible, and yes there are rules regarding ninja looting, but if I choose to omit a certain sentence that grants me immunity in a judicial sense, for instance kicking everyone else in the raid just before looting so technically I can't ninja loot anything because I'm the only one in the raid, seeing as the only promise I made was that I wouldn't ninja loot, I never said anything about kicking left and right.
If this was possible in WoW we'd have a hell of a time with ingame lawyers working out contracts

[Aquamonkey]

And what if he is unable to sell it for at least the 20k? He has no guarantee that he can actually make a profit, so if he loses gold he was conned. And no matter what, the crafter now has to spend time and energy trying to sell the item.

How is that any different than trying to sell any crafted item? There is never a guarantee of making a profit. If someone says they'll buy from me, then someone whispers them a cheaper price, too bad.

[Palmatum]

Well, people playing the AH have been banned for 'manipulating the economy', so who knows.

[Lillemus]

How is that any different than trying to sell any crafted item? There is never a guarantee of making a profit. If someone says they'll buy from me, then someone whispers them a cheaper price, too bad.

Well, we can argue back and forth from now till the end of time, I guess until we have documentation of GM actions we'll never know what the consequences of such an action would be (Unless you made money from the mats the crafter bought of AH).

[adimaya]

so I think most of you forget that there's two people being dishonest in this scenario.

the buyer and the seller.
the buyer being dishonest because he's really trying to get his goods sold through false enticement, and the seller being dishonest because he's trying to make a quick buck by not telling the buyer about the item on the AH and profit on the difference.

so I guess this is what they call "karma".

[Alastaircrawly]

its a old scam. most the time someone will say in /y or /2 its on the ah for X and people will wonder why you are not buying it off there. Second people were banned in bc for the same scam

[Lillemus]

so I think most of you forget that there's two people being dishonest in this scenario.

the buyer and the seller.
the buyer being dishonest because he's really trying to get his goods sold through false enticement, and the seller being dishonest because he's trying to make a quick buck by not telling the buyer about the item on the AH and profit on the difference.

so I guess this is what they call "karma".

I don't really thinks this holds up, I played the auction house a bit back in the day, and by your logic I should never be allowed to make a profit by swooping up items on AH if they were below market price since that would be "dishonest"?

[Alastaircrawly]

I don't really thinks this holds up, I played the auction house a bit back in the day, and by your logic I should never be allowed to make a profit by swooping up items on AH if they were below market price since that would be "dishonest"?

Well this is how it works

Get a blue drop and post it on the AH for X amount of gold say 100. Then make an alt and Post in Trade WTB said Blue drop paying 160g.

Then when someone replies saying that they have it they say OK I gtg COD it to me. Then log off.

Normally they will have bought it off the ah being yours they bought and cod it to you.

With this the Scammer gets off with X amount of gold and you have a blue drop in your mail a few days latter.

[adimaya]

I don't really thinks this holds up, I played the auction house a bit back in the day, and by your logic I should never be allowed to make a profit by swooping up items on AH if they were below market price since that would be "dishonest"?

the first scenario is about being dishonest in securing goods from a source both of you have easy access to and making profit on the margin due to the other person not being aware of the source.

the second scenario is about you believing you can sell an item at a higher price. what is dishonest about that?

[Lomppa]

Its the oldest trick in the book. Seen it been done since classic, and i doubt you will get a ban for it. But is sounds like alot of work for little cash, as many other ppl who got the item will whisper you that they will sell it, and its also more or less a one-time-thing as ppl will catch on to you after a few times.

[Blockygame]

No that's not scamming. Why would that be scamming?

Tricking someone into buying your overpriced item in the hopes of selling it back to you for 10k is essentially scamming, but alas, not according to Blizzard.

[Aquamonkey]

the first scenario is about being dishonest in securing goods from a source both of you have easy access to and making profit on the margin due to the other person not being aware of the source.

the second scenario is about you believing you can sell an item at a higher price. what is dishonest about that?

AH scans and sites like UndermineJournal aren't scamming me when they tell me items sell for more than I can actually get.

[Lillemus]

the first scenario is about being dishonest in securing goods from a source both of you have easy access to and making profit on the margin due to the other person not being aware of the source.

the second scenario is about you believing you can sell an item at a higher price. what is dishonest about that?

I see your point, but I just disagree, if a person is so lazy that he can't be bothered checking AH first (I don't think this will ever happen in a non-scam situation though ) does he not in some way deserve to pay extra for having another person run to AH and get it for him, it's a damn expensive delivery service, but non the less, a delivery service .

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 08:32 AM ----------

Well this is how it works

Get a blue drop and post it on the AH for X amount of gold say 100. Then make an alt and Post in Trade WTB said Blue drop paying 160g.

Then when someone replies saying that they have it they say OK I gtg COD it to me. Then log off.

Normally they will have bought it off the ah being yours they bought and cod it to you.

With this the Scammer gets off with X amount of gold and you have a blue drop in your mail a few days latter.

You should really start following the thread more closely...

[Alastaircrawly]

But to the op

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ox-scam-Beware


It is reportable, since he is not following through with what was agreed upon in chat he can be suspended or banned, depending on how often/long he or she has been exploiting people.

---------- Post added 2013-01-04 at 11:34 PM ----------

You should really start following the thread more closely...

I was pointing out the old version of the said scam

[MoanaLisa]

No, not a scam but not something to be proud about either.