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  1. #21
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Obviously you haven't played WC3...
    http://www.wowpedia.org/A_New_Power_in_Lordaeron

    So the Alliance and Forsaken team up to take back Lordaeron which they agree will go to the Alliance when all is done. Ofcourse by the end Sylvanas doesn't hold her word and kills the Human survivors and then appoints a Dreadlord as her second in command of which seemed to be quite high up in the Burning Legion and is part of a race know for their treachery.

    So after killing Lordaeron's survivors and appointing a Dreadlords as their second in command, why should the Alliance trust them?
    It's not racism it's going by what they've the moment they had free will.

    Then in modern WoW we have their current activities of plague, necromancy and attempts to slaughter everybody in their path without mercy meaning that their current relations can only be worse again because of the Forsaken.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-01-05 at 09:31 AM.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Didn't forsaken turn their backs on alliance because stormwind didn't help lordearon much during scourge plague? I might be wrong but I thought it was fosaken who didnt want to work with alliance not the other way around, while alliance death knights are hereos who were fighting alongside alliance before they got changed into arthas' servants. At least thats how I always explained it to myself so that it makes sense :P
    If you played WC3, what happened was fairly odd. A branch of Alliance forces, lead by.. some guy whos name I can't remember, actually JOINED with Sylvannas to defeat the local scourge forces lead by various Dreadlords. They suceeded. After this, the guy whos name I can't remember was all like "Thanks for your help, now GTFO off my land" and Sylvanas is all like "LOL UR LAND? MAI LAND NAO" and killed all the alliance that was up there. Thus, the Forsaken claimed Lordaereon.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  3. #23
    Like ive said many times before blizz made a huge lorewise goof by ever adding forsaken as a playable race. Sure as an idea it is prominent and compelling, but storywise it makes no goddamn sense.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Obviously you haven't played WC3...
    http://www.wowpedia.org/A_New_Power_in_Lordaeron

    So the Alliance and Forsaken team up to take back Lordaeron which they agree will go to the Alliance when all is done. Ofcourse by the end Sylvanas doesn't hold her word and kills the Human survivors and then appoints a Dreadlord as her second in command of which seemed to be quite high up in the Burning Legion and is part of a race know for their treachery.

    So after killing Lordaeron's survivors and appointing a Dreadlords as their second in command, why should the Alliance trust them?
    It's not racism it's going by what they've the moment they had free will.

    Then in modern WoW we have their current activities of plague, necromancy and attempts to slaughter everybody in their path without mercy meaning that their current relations can only be worse again because of the Forsaken.
    That's not the Alliance, it's the remnants of the Alliance of Lordaeron formed as the New Alliance under Garithos. Garithos was a racist asshole anyway.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    If you played WC3, what happened was fairly odd. A branch of Alliance forces, lead by.. some guy whos name I can't remember, actually JOINED with Sylvannas to defeat the local scourge forces lead by various Dreadlords. They suceeded. After this, the guy whos name I can't remember was all like "Thanks for your help, now GTFO off my land" and Sylvanas is all like "LOL UR LAND? MAI LAND NAO" and killed all the alliance that was up there. Thus, the Forsaken claimed Lordaereon.
    Wasn't it Garithos, the same racist dick who got rid of the blood elves from the alliance? Thats like 2 races for the Horde from 1 guy.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    If you played WC3, what happened was fairly odd. A branch of Alliance forces, lead by.. some guy whos name I can't remember, actually JOINED with Sylvannas to defeat the local scourge forces lead by various Dreadlords. They suceeded. After this, the guy whos name I can't remember was all like "Thanks for your help, now GTFO off my land" and Sylvanas is all like "LOL UR LAND? MAI LAND NAO" and killed all the alliance that was up there. Thus, the Forsaken claimed Lordaereon.
    Garithos was freed from mind control by Sylvannas. Plus he was a racist.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 01:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Didn't forsaken turn their backs on alliance because stormwind didn't help lordearon much during scourge plague? I might be wrong but I thought it was fosaken who didnt want to work with alliance not the other way around, while alliance death knights are hereos who were fighting alongside alliance before they got changed into arthas' servants. At least thats how I always explained it to myself so that it makes sense :P
    Sylvannas sent emissaries to all the other factions. Only the Tauren responded kindly hoping to redeem the Forsaken. It was the Tauren who convinced the Horde to take them in.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-01-05 at 09:42 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #27
    Mod this is a Troll Thread. It has nothing to do with "War Crimes" or "Discrimination"

    Hate to use the F word but this Fanboy is trying (poorly) to Troll.

  8. #28
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    If you played WC3, what happened was fairly odd. A branch of Alliance forces, lead by.. some guy whos name I can't remember, actually JOINED with Sylvannas to defeat the local scourge forces lead by various Dreadlords. They suceeded. After this, the guy whos name I can't remember was all like "Thanks for your help, now GTFO off my land" and Sylvanas is all like "LOL UR LAND? MAI LAND NAO" and killed all the alliance that was up there. Thus, the Forsaken claimed Lordaereon.
    Enough said .

    Forsaken are just traitors bastards and lead by a completely useless selfproclaimed leader.

    Wether Garithos is/was a racist, he was right in getting lordareon, nothing else to add.

    So yeah, back to the beginning:

    DK =/= Forsaken traitors murderes.

  9. #29
    High Overlord Rockwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor-Nw View Post
    Like ive said many times before blizz made a huge lorewise goof by ever adding forsaken as a playable race. Sure as an idea it is prominent and compelling, but storywise it makes no goddamn sense.
    The Forsaken make perfect sense for a playable race and to be in the Horde.
    The Horde is a story of second chances and redemption. The Tauren helped
    the Forsaken just like they helped the Orcs.

    Blizzard just doesn't care about Lore when making a class. This is why
    Gnomes can be tanks, why we have female night elf druids, and why forsaken can
    be holy/disc priests. Its also why we didn't have Blood Elf warriors til Cata.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    Mod this is a Troll Thread. It has nothing to do with "War Crimes" or "Discrimination"

    Hate to use the F word but this Fanboy is trying (poorly) to Troll.
    When you have to you have to... .

  11. #31
    High Overlord Rockwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    Mod this is a Troll Thread. It has nothing to do with "War Crimes" or "Discrimination"

    Hate to use the F word but this Fanboy is trying (poorly) to Troll.
    Why is it that every time I read that it sounds like a five year old tadle telling to Mom...Well Mom and Mod are close enough in spelling.

    Some of us are just bored enough to respond so don't ruin our fun.

    Anywho, I just think the bones of the Forsaken creep the Alliance out. I can hear King Varian meeting
    a forsaken and saying "ewwww they are icky, I don't like you so you don't get to be our club or atleast
    thats how Metzen would explain away this question at a Q&A.

  12. #32
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    Enough said .

    Forsaken are just traitors bastards and lead by a completely useless selfproclaimed leader.

    ....

    Forsaken traitors murderes.
    Wat?


    OT: Tirion Fordring vouched for DK's, there is no one to vouch for Forsaken or any other undead.

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral TheCrusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme View Post
    [/COLOR]

    With the Death Knights proving they could resist the Lich King, what is to make Farmer Joe any different? If anything since the Death Knights proved it is possible, why would leaders in the Alliance question other innocent Undead?
    because the forsaken are already allied with the horde ...
    don't want spys in our ranks ...
    My signature was too big, so now I use this one.

  14. #34
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That's not the Alliance, it's the remnants of the Alliance of Lordaeron formed as the New Alliance under Garithos. Garithos was a racist asshole anyway.
    What he called it or even if it was separate is irrelevant. When Varian was King prior to the Defias nonsense he would have still been aware of the dealings of the Forsaken. They had proven to be a race of nothing but deceit and cold hearted actions.
    Garithos was nob, but even then he actually kept his word. He was a very Lawful character.

  15. #35
    Someone or a couple of someone's pointed out the main reasons why Alliance does not include the Forsaken. (And to the original poster -- Just because a ball and the Earth are round, does not mean that they are the same or even remotely equivalent.)

    Step 1: Forsaken are highly rare and unusual zombies that are made undead by the plague of undeath, and are able to break free of the Lich King's control with the Banshee Queen's help. Arthas fooled the human kingdoms once before (Lordaeron comes to mind) by sneaking necromancers and cultists into the general populace prior to unleashing the plague. Stormwind NEEDS to make sure that they can withstand the undead, and so cannot risk allowing the Forsaken to mix with their people as they do not know if the Forsaken have truly broken free of the Lich King or if they are really just there to infiltrate once again for Arthas.

    Step 2: Forsaken join the Horde. Alliance and Horde are effectively at WAR with each other. Sometimes actively, other times in a cold war fashion, but they are at WAR. This means that the Forsaken have officially become the ENEMY.

    Step 3: DKs come into play as the Lich King awakens once again. Death Knights who are subjected to the event at Light's Hope Chapel are broken free of their hold from the Lich King. Once freed, they fight on behalf of the Argent Dawn against the Lich King. MANY people see this, including many living, breathing humans, as well as Tirion Fordring, a VERY powerful paladin. On the word of Fordring and the Argent Dawn, the Alliance BEGRUDGINGLY allows the death knights entry. The death knights aren't seen as people or even members; they're seen as powerful weapons to be used against Arthas and his invasion. If you question that, look up the quests involving Thaurissian -- they essentially keep sending him on suicide missions because they don't want him around.

    Step 4: Wrathgate. Forsaken bomb the Wrathgate battle ground with a special weaponized plague, and bomb scourge and allies indiscriminately. The battle cry, "Death to the Scourge and death to the living!" is direct evidence that this indiscriminate bombing of both sides was NOT an accident. Sylvanas claims that this was done by rogue agents, but there is a LOT of evidence to the contrary. Even so, it shows that the the Forsaken are NOT to be trusted.

    -----1) Evidence: Producing a very specific type of plague requires a LOT of resources -- requiring time, money, personnel, test subjects, places to develop the plague and test subjects. As the leader of the Forsaken, it would have been impossible for Sylvanas to not notice this.

    -----2) Evidence: Sylvanas herself was subsidizing and ordering the Royal Apothecary Society to develop a plague weapon. Old Vanilla quests in Silverpine, Tarren Mill, and newer quests in Howling Fjord support this.

    -----3) Even if the Alliance have no knowledge of the old world quests, the quests in Howling Fjord have you actually bomb some of the towns in that zone to eliminate the plague carts. The Alliance SEE the Forsaken making plague. High-ranking Apothecaries and officials of the Forsaken are in these bases and have a line of communication back to Sylvanas. She knows they're making plague.

    This means that the Forsaken are definitely not to be trusted. In the mean time, the death knights, such as Thaurissian, Darion Mograine and his Ebon Knights are attacking the Lich King and providing assistance, NOT indiscriminately slaughtering allies.

    Step 5: Assault on Gilneas. Gilneas, for all intents and purposes, was an isolated neutral country like Switzerland. They didn't participate in skirmishes against the Horde, didn't generally assist the Alliance, and lived for YEARS alongside Forsaken-controlled Lordaeron and Silverpine without doing a thing to the Forsaken. Vanilla quests in Silverpine have nothing to do with the Gilnean wall, and you don't see or hear about anyone or anything living behind it. The village of Pyrewood is clearly cursed, and not at all attributed to Gilneas in the quests. Dalaran mages in Ambermill? Sure. Gilneans? No. Yet the Forsaken initiate an aggressive campaign against Gilneas. And no, the Cataclysm didn't start this aggressive expansion as in the worgen starting zone, it is very apparent that the Cataclysm actually interrupts the invasion.

    Step 6: Sylvanas uses plague on Gilneas. REALLY?? PLAGUE?? AGAIN?? After Varian went nuts, after Thrall went nuts, and the whole world decried its usage, Sylvanas uses plague on Gilneas and then shows up on the battlefield in person. Furthermore, Gilneans actually WITNESS Sylvanas giving the order for its usage. Hell, even blood-thirsty Garrosh doesn't want to touch the plague. You can sort of think of it as a nuclear warhead. Who in their right mind is going to lay out a welcome mat for a leader and a people like that?? That would be like trying to cuddle up to a rattlesnake. It's going to bite you in the face, and then you're going to die. Death knights might be undead, but they didn't go and commit genocide after being freed of the Lich King. The Forsaken, of their own free will, did this.


    So, to compare and contrast, the Forsaken have attacked neutral countries, used deplorable weapons of mass destruction, committed genocide, and betrayed their allies after being freed of the Lich King's control. Death Knights, on the other hand, were psychologically abused, spat on, insulted, sent on numerous suicide missions, and yet, still performed bravely and admirably, and did not retaliate against their abusers and just took the abuse in stride.

    Why the hell would the Alliance welcome the Forsaken again? I'm pretty damn surprised that even the Horde didn't kick them out.

  16. #36
    Dreadlord Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    What he called it or even if it was separate is irrelevant. When Varian was King prior to the Defias nonsense he would have still been aware of the dealings of the Forsaken. They had proven to be a race of nothing but deceit and cold hearted actions.
    Garithos was nob, but even then he actually kept his word. He was a very Lawful character.
    just saying, but forsaken arent a race, they're a faction of a classification of a race, that being undead humans/elves called forsaken, just one of my pet peeves =P

    also how would have Varian been aware or the Forsakens deceit? no one from SW was sent to Lordaeron, and Sylvanas killed Garrys troops

    in answer to the OP, neither the alliance or horde can commit warcrimes (and even if they could, i dont understand how accepting DKs and not Forsaken is classified as a warcrime) due to the fact they lack any sort of world justice system unlike us, its hypocritical perhaps, but every faction has been hypocritical at least once so i dont see how it matters

    also Dks got vouched for by Tirion, no-one vouched for the Forsaken
    Last edited by Jawless Jones; 2013-01-05 at 10:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiebob
    I'm still waiting on someone to tell me where all these people that suddenly care about Warrior balance were during Cataclysm when they were blow up dolls with plate armor on.
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Stop complaining to solve your lack of ability, and start reading and practicing to gain ability. Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.

  17. #37
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Trion assumed responsability for all the death knights. Neither Trion nor any other living important figure assumed responsability for the forsaken. Could be because the Forsaken's first act was to wipe Garithos and his forces, thus kind of taking away from the trust.

  18. #38
    Who said they are accepted? They are tolerated after Tirion's pledge and Varian's decree.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Plus he was a racist.
    I fail to see how this is relevant

  20. #40
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    The Alliance didn't exactly like having death knights, though. Varian threatens to make the player a stain on the floor when you meet him, and that only a vouch from the greatest paladin alive had saved your life. He very reluctantly agrees to let you help the Alliance down the Lich King. Not to mention the extremely hostile reaction the city denizens give you before Varian/Thrall grant you their tolerance...

    Contrast to the Forsaken, who (by and large) have never expressed any interest in rejoining the Alliance at all. The only non-Undercity-affiliated Forsaken have gone to the Argent Crusade or remained independent.

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