Why bother with Hit/Expertise capping as Blood?

[Mionelol]

How is it "great when it happens" ? Did it have any kind of meaningful impact? Did it stop healers from casting spells on you? Will they stop casting on you for the next attack because you dodged one?
Look, I'm exaggerating a bit on purpose, but from my point of view it's fairly simple. Any fight is completely doable even if you end up not having a single dodge or parry during the entire encounter - in fact, aside from yourself, probably no-one will notice you didn't avoid anything. Thus, boosting the chance for it to happen is completely pointless. More DPS, on the other hand, is always appreciated.


Also, I'd still like this profile.

[Darkfriend]

Wait, so you are saying that taking less damage is pointless unless it has some impact on the fights outcome? I agree. That being said, unless you're healers are amazing, or geared, or both, sometimes the extra mitigation saves your ass. If the damage isn't spiky and low enough that the healers aren't going OOM at the end of the fight ya, it probably won't matter. On other fights, it might. Again, it seems to be a Your mileage may vary situation.

[Reniat]

How is it "great when it happens" ? Did it have any kind of meaningful impact? Did it stop healers from casting spells on you? Will they stop casting on you for the next attack because you dodged one?
Look, I'm exaggerating a bit on purpose, but from my point of view it's fairly simple. Any fight is completely doable even if you end up not having a single dodge or parry during the entire encounter - in fact, aside from yourself, probably no-one will notice you didn't avoid anything. Thus, boosting the chance for it to happen is completely pointless. More DPS, on the other hand, is always appreciated.

"you can't guarantee it so it's useless" is a poor argument, and a DK tank with 0 dodge/parry will DEFINITELY be noticed by their healers in 25H content.

Also, I'd still like this profile.

I'll be 100% honest...I'm not sure how to export the profile... do i need to host the .htm somewhere?

[Bunnys]

My guild had a 0.2% wipe on Garalon HC a few attempts before our first kill, just thought I'd mention that...

[Hellkung]

My guild had a 0.2% wipe on Garalon HC a few attempts before our first kill, just thought I'd mention that...

Sure but you can't blame everything on the tank.

That might as well be a DPS not using 300 STR food buff or fcking up his rotation.

I agree with Mione but I don't see how you could call avoidance useless as it serves it's purpose for multi-tanking and melee heavy encounters.

Wind Lord scares me without some proper avoidance unless you got an absolute buttload of mastery.

[Bunnys]

Sure but you can't blame everything on the tank.

That might as well be a DPS not using 300 STR food buff or fcking up his rotation.

I agree with Mione but I don't see how you could call avoidance useless as it serves it's purpose for multi-tanking and melee heavy encounters.

Wind Lord scares me without some proper avoidance unless you got an absolute buttload of mastery.

Dps using a 250/275 food buff would result in a much more insignificant loss compared to the one being discussed, if 2 tanks in a 10man can produce say 2.5% more raid dps between them, that's definitely the difference between a wipe and a kill on serious dps checks...

[Reniat]

I think it's safe to say that it's going to just come down to personal preference. You value DPS more even if it's didn't make a difference in the kill, and I value survivability more even if it didn't make a difference in the kill. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Inambour]

You hit/exp capping will save you <2s depending on the fight, not 30. [...]

Like i said, multiply this number per each dps in the raid and even healers/hybrids healing with deeps (priests/monks/enh/ferals etc) and you get a kill faster. It's a raid's job to be optimized, that's all i mean. The moment i'm still at like 8+% dodge and over 22% parry with like 190% mastery and 650+k HP i'm not worried about boosting any avoidance.

As for Windlord, nothing scary. Healers just gonna spam and focus heavily.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Seems :> !

[Riemu2k3]

Well, I kinda agree and disagree with the posts in this thread

First of all - you need to seperate 10s and 25s. You can't link riggnaros and say "hey, he's not capping it - why should we". In 25s the tank damage hardly matters. The damage received by the tank however, matters even more. Spells hit harder, you generally suffer way more damage to compensate for more healers. I've seen couple of 25 heroic tanks who stack stamina to survive some encounters. In 25 I would agree that capping Hit/Exp is not really that beneficial.

On 10s however, I prefer hit and exp over parry and dodge. I reforge for Mastery > Hit > Exp > Parry > Mastery. In short, I try to take Mastery on every Item. If its already on there, I go for Hit / Exp. I prefer Hit over Exp because of Rune Strike im Combination with Rune Tap. I like being hit capped to have more control over my survivability. Reforging into Parry and Dodge over Hit and Exp rarely matters in 10 heroics. I'm currently at 10/16 and the only fight I ever reforged to Parry/Dodge was our Wind-Lord Heroic firstkill where I tanked everything.

Only Fight where I died on was Spirit Kings Heroic during Shadowguy+Meng alive and only because I messed up my Cooldowns. Other than that, survival shouldn't really be an issue (at least from the fights I have experienced so far) if you play properly. On fights like heroic emps my selfheal is about 85% of my total healing received. So you don't really make things easier on the healers if you have 3%? more avoidance.

I like to help out on damage as much as I can in 10s. Enrages might not be that tight, but missed 100k Vengeance Soul Reapers do hurt when you really need to beat those numbers. Heroic Gara'jal was pretty tight for us on our first kill - I wouldn't dare think about a missed Soul Reaper or two there along with my other damage. Even if it's only like 1-2% Boss HP. Those would have whiped us. I agree that improving Raid DPS is a group effort and goes along with so many things, like using 300 Stat food and stuff. But like I said, I like to help out as much as I can on damage and using 2x strength pots, DPS opimized rotations on enrage bosses and trying to cap Hit/Exp after Mastery is the Blood DKs way of doing it.

EDIT:

My guild had a 0.2% wipe on Garalon HC a few attempts before our first kill, just thought I'd mention that...

You should play Garalon HC with hit/exp/haste reforged damage gear as Blood DK. At least I did and it worked like a charm. Pulled almost as much DPS as our casters and survival was a piece a cake while tanking garalon sub 33%.

[Bunnys]

Riemu summed it up very well, tank dps contributes a lot to 10man raids compared to 25

You should play Garalon HC with hit/exp/haste reforged damage gear as Blood DK. At least I did and it worked like a charm. Pulled almost as much DPS as our casters and survival was a piece a cake while tanking garalon sub 33%.

My main spec is DPS, I just thought I'd highlight how 0.2% raid dps, although it is a tiny amount, could still be the difference between a kill and a wipe.