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  1. #21
    Netheris2K what does it exactly mean about gemming? I think about red and blue socket. I guess Yellow will be +320 haste but what about the rest? +80int +160haste for Red and +160Haste +160Hit for Blue?

  2. #22
    So at the point of time now in 5.2 you are not able to use the whole invocation buff uptime due to mana issues?

  3. #23
    You need to take in consideration that the Invocation cast may be interrupted in some occasions just by bad luck, a fear, random fire under your feet the moment you start casting it etc. Even a wrong spacebar click will ruin all your dps. Why no one is trying to adjust with the intended rotation and find some ways to make it viable for high damage? And please, don't tell me it can't do high damage with the intended rotation. It will probably not be that high as it is with the AB spamming but it will still be viable.
    One more thing. Arcane is all about Mana management. In its current state, Arcane mages are keeping their mana pools above 85% most of the times. If you drop your mana down to 30-35%(50% lower than it was), doesn't that mean that your damage in sustained AB spamming will result giving much lower numbers?
    Why don't you try to follow the intended rotation for once and try to make it work better?
    Trying to bypass the intended rotation once more after Blizzard stated that this is not what they want Arcane to be(AB spamming) imo will result to more nerfs in Arcane.
    A viable rotation may be: AB up to 6 charges, if you get AM proc at 3-4 you cast it, cast 2-3 more AB, clear with AB, then Invocate and start over .This way you will be able to move without losing time casting RoP, you will maintain high mana and you will always have the Invoker's ward buff up for the +15% dmg.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphamage View Post
    You need to take in consideration that the Invocation cast may be interrupted in some occasions just by bad luck, a fear, random fire under your feet the moment you start casting it etc. Even a wrong spacebar click will ruin all your dps. Why no one is trying to adjust with the intended rotation and find some ways to make it viable for high damage? And please, don't tell me it can't do high damage with the intended rotation. It will probably not be that high as it is with the AB spamming but it will still be viable.
    One more thing. Arcane is all about Mana management. In its current state, Arcane mages are keeping their mana pools above 85% most of the times. If you drop your mana down to 30-35%(50% lower than it was), doesn't that mean that your damage in sustained AB spamming will result giving much lower numbers?
    Why don't you try to follow the intended rotation for once and try to make it work better?
    Trying to bypass the intended rotation once more after Blizzard stated that this is not what they want Arcane to be(AB spamming) imo will result to more nerfs in Arcane.
    A viable rotation may be: AB up to 6 charges, if you get AM proc at 3-4 you cast it, cast 2-3 more AB, clear with AB, then Invocate and start over .This way you will be able to move without losing time casting RoP, you will maintain high mana and you will always have the Invoker's ward buff up for the +15% dmg.
    So you want people to use a worse dps rotation because it seems like that is what Blizzard intents? I just want to be sure because it sounds absurd so maybe I misunderstood. At any rate, if Blizzard wants us to use a certain rotation maybe they should make it not be terrible.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkman View Post
    So you want people to use a worse dps rotation because it seems like that is what Blizzard intents? I just want to be sure because it sounds absurd so maybe I misunderstood. At any rate, if Blizzard wants us to use a certain rotation maybe they should make it not be terrible.
    The way that Arcane is played at the moment is a clever use of game/spell mechanics that makes it possible for Arcane Mages to maintain with ease their mana pools above 85% and allows them to maintain their 6 stacks at all times and completely ignore Arcane Barrage except only if they clear their stacks when Alter Time is about to end. Spamming AB with a couple of scorches and refreshing the bomb is not a rotation at all.
    And why is the intended rotation that terrible? Just because it makes less dps or because it will need some actual effort to do some nice damage? Maybe if you actually try it it will end up good and the numbers will be rewarding. Instead of arguing, better try it first!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphamage View Post
    The way that Arcane is played at the moment is a clever use of game/spell mechanics that makes it possible for Arcane Mages to maintain with ease their mana pools above 85% and allows them to maintain their 6 stacks at all times and completely ignore Arcane Barrage except only if they clear their stacks when Alter Time is about to end. Spamming AB with a couple of scorches and refreshing the bomb is not a rotation at all.
    And why is the intended rotation that terrible? Just because it makes less dps or because it will need some actual effort to do some nice damage? Maybe if you actually try it it will end up good and the numbers will be rewarding. Instead of arguing, better try it first!
    Please do not insult the efforts or intelligence of these board members like that. While I am sure many only go FOTM with their gameplay, many do not. I personally tried both rotations, but at my gear level the result was similar enough that I stuck with "intended" play style. People go for the method that gives them better results, no matter what it may be.

  7. #27
    Field Marshal Netheris2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adonix View Post
    Netheris2K what does it exactly mean about gemming? I think about red and blue socket. I guess Yellow will be +320 haste but what about the rest? +80int +160haste for Red and +160Haste +160Hit for Blue?
    yeah like this... but no int haste, just hit/haste. i just loaded my char into mr. robot, and changed the values of haste and mastery...not very precise, but enough to get a clue of how it could turn out in live realms.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome Xzan's Avatar
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    The "intented" rotation certainly can be used in case there is enough targets to cleave with the ABarr. Otherwise it's non-negligible DPS loss.

    What I've seen in 5.2 notes for mages so far can only be labelled as a class design failure.
    They give us ABarr, a cleave spell that simply is not worth using in single target situations because we lose our damage increasing stacks and the spell's damage does not even out the DPS loss resulting from that.
    They give us Scorch, low-mana cost low-damage spell that procs AM. It fits the spec's design perfectly. It makes you watch the manabar. It makes you actually think. It's less punishing if you're flat out unlucky with AM procs during your stack build-up phase. And it certainly is far more fun than the fixed rotation they think we should be using.

    They should just accept the way it is played. We do manage the mana. We just don't do it in the stupid way they thought we would.

    Worst thing is, the changes in current 5.2 notes will remove ANY viability of mana management. The very OPPOSITE of what they are trying to achieve here, heh...

    edit: usual typos and stuff...
    Last edited by Xzan; 2013-01-08 at 06:08 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Xzan View Post
    The "intented" rotation certainly can be used in case there is enough targets to cleave with the ABarr. Otherwise it's non-negligible DPS loss.

    What I've seen in 5.2 notes for mages so far can only be labelled as a class design failure.
    They give us ABarr, a cleave spell that simply is not worth using in single target situations because we lose our damage increasing stacks and the spell's damage does not even out the DPS loss resulting from that.
    They give us Scorch, low-mana cost low-damage spell that procs AM. It fits the spec's design perfectly. It makes you watch the manabar. It makes you actually think. It's less punishing if you're flat out unlucky with AM procs during your stack build-up phase. And it certainly is far more fun than the fixed rotation they think we should be using.

    They should just accept the way it is played. We do manage the mana. We just don't do it in the stupid way they thought we would.

    Worst thing is, the changes in current 5.2 notes will remove ANY viability of mana management. The very OPPOSITE of what they are trying to achieve here, heh...

    edit: usual typos and stuff....
    Pretty much this

  10. #30
    They should just make an Arcane version of Scorch. I feel like Blizzard doesn't want a fire spell (save LB in certain cases) to be used in the Arcane rotation simply because when they were in their MoP thinktank some months back this was not their intention. I would be fine with them nerfing our damage slightly to keep the rotation the way it is.

    What needs an overhaul is level 90 talents for christ sake.

  11. #31
    " Another talent we’re iterating on is Invocation; it’s quite possible that the current version is overpowered, but we’d like people to try it out, and give us feedback about how you use it, especially as Arcane "
    Did anybody start testing?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by kirit0 View Post
    " Another talent we’re iterating on is Invocation; it’s quite possible that the current version is overpowered, but we’d like people to try it out, and give us feedback about how you use it, especially as Arcane "
    Did anybody start testing?
    Its quite redic for arcane, but I usually refrain from testing just not to be disappointed that something awesome didnt make it live once again.. its a nerf for fire and frost dps wise though.

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