View Poll Results: Where do you stand?

Voters
108. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm American and I support America.

    41 37.96%
  • I'm American and I oppose America.

    13 12.04%
  • I'm European and I support my country and/or oppose the EU.

    28 25.93%
  • I'm European and I oppose my country and/or support the EU.

    14 12.96%
  • I'm of other nationality and I support my country.

    8 7.41%
  • I'm of another nationality and I oppose my country.

    4 3.70%
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  1. #261
    This may very well be the worst poll and reason given for a poll I have ever seen. Do you know what "Patriotism" is? It is ignorance, plain and simple. Blindly supporting your country instead of providing critical, constructive, criticism will only lead to the downfall of your country. You allow Government and Military to become unchecked, because "Patriotism," and they start getting away with more and more until it is far too late. Suddenly, the country you support is not what you thought it was, and there is no going back.

    Also, America is not a 'right-wing' country. I have no idea where you got this idea from. Are you trying to define the country on a political scale? You cannot define where America is by using a 2D scale. We have policies all over the map, from war, healthcare, and economy, that you cannot use such a scale. If you are simply going based on the type of government we employ, we are a moderate country right smack dab in the middle, that is where true 'freedom' lies... where you don't have the government rationing food and water and assigning forced jobs (socialism) on the far left, and you don't have a fascist leadership making decisions primarily for the good of the ruling class on the far right.
    Last edited by Takamuri; 2013-01-06 at 03:27 PM.
    Taka of Deus Vox

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    So states trying to bring each other down is better ?
    Let's not mention the idea that right = decentralization is far from true.. especially if you get out from America.
    It is true. The downside is that it leads to anarchy if we go too far to the right.

    States competing with each other and trying to be better than each other is very efficient and can be done ethically.

    Take the computer you are using at the moment for example. It was the product of competition I am sure.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Takamuri View Post
    This may very well be the worst poll and reason given for a poll I have ever seen. Do you know what "Patriotism" is? It is ignorance, plain and simple. Blindly supporting your country instead of providing critical, constructive, criticism will only lead to the downfall of your country. You allow Government and Military to become unchecked, because "Patriotism," and they start getting away with more and more until it is far too late. Suddenly, the country you support is not what you thought it was, and there is no going back.
    Patriotism is not loyalism, it's only that you love your country, your government has nothing to do with it.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Patriotism is not loyalism, it's only that you love your country, your government has nothing to do with it.
    Your government is your country. It is the identifying factor common to every citizen of your country. If you say, "I am a patriotic American," you are saying you support your country, and you do it devotedly. If the US government was replaced, with the North Korean or Iran government, would you still say "I am a patriotic American?" Hell no you wouldn't, because being an American to you has to do with having a government in place that represents your interests. If your government is not representative of you, but still calls itself the United States of America, are you still going to be 'patriotic?' Why not? I thought you said it has nothing to do with your government?

    You love your country because of how the government (and by extension, since we are a representative republic, the people) made it.
    Last edited by Takamuri; 2013-01-06 at 04:05 PM.
    Taka of Deus Vox

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Nationalists are dumbasses. They hate immigrants because of their culture and lifestyle, yet it's always been massive floods of immigrants that has made countries economic superpowers. For example, Sweden had a massive flood of immigrants from southern Europe during the 60s, and Sweden became one of the richest countries in the world because of the cheap workforce we got.
    When immigrants assimilate into the prevailing culture then it's fine. We can take the positives out of their culture too. When they bring a culture that they escaped from here, it's not fine.

    The Romans also relied on immigrant soldiers which marked their downfall. The cultural shift and lack of home grown soldiers was too much to bear. The Romans diluted their culture too much.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Takamuri View Post
    pa·tri·ot·ism [pey-tree-uh-tiz-uh m or, esp. British, pa-]
    devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.

    Your government is your country. It is the identifying factor common to every citizen of your country. If you say, "I am a patriotic American," you are saying you support your country, and you do it devotedly. If the US government was replaced, with the North Korean or Iran government, would you still say "I am a patriotic American?" Hell no you wouldn't, because being an American to you has to do with having a government in place that represents your interests. If your government is not representative of you, but still calls itself the United States of America, are you still going to be 'patriotic?' Why not? I thought you said it has nothing to do with your government?
    It says national loyalty, I am loyal to my country. The government is not my country. Saying it's the identifying factor to every citizen in your country is just silly. So because I'm Swedish I'm suddenly a liberal just because our government is liberal? What I love about Sweden is the culture and it's history, our monarch and pop culture, not Fredrik Reinfeldt.

    If I had a North Korean government I would be loyal to my country and would fight against the government because I want my country to be free.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    When immigrants assimilate into the prevailing culture then it's fine. We can take the positives out of their culture too. When they bring a culture that they escaped from here, it's not fine.
    I think few flee from their culture, I think they flee from either war that ravages their land, or the politics which in turn is influenced by the culture.
    Last edited by Tomatketchup; 2013-01-06 at 04:11 PM.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    The Romans also relied on immigrant soldiers which marked their downfall. The cultural shift and lack of home grown soldiers was too much to bear. The Romans diluted their culture too much.
    What..?
    No; the Roman Empire failed because it was poisoning itself with lead, the general populace was rotting away, child mortality rates were incredibly high, there was no sanitation other than that for the wealthy, people got so much work that they couldn't even do their own cooking, let alone child rearing, and enemies were coming in from the East and the North, repeatedly sacking the heart of the empire.
    Rome fell because of its arrogance, superstitions and stupidity. Not because of cultural 'diluting.'

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    What..?
    No; the Roman Empire failed because it was poisoning itself with lead, the general populace was rotting away, child mortality rates were incredibly high, there was no sanitation other than that for the wealthy, people got so much work that they couldn't even do their own cooking, let alone child rearing, and enemies were coming in from the East and the North, repeatedly sacking the heart of the empire.
    Rome fell because of its arrogance, superstitions and stupidity. Not because of cultural 'diluting.'
    They relied on immigrants to bolster their army too much as well. The Roman empire was too divided in the end to stand on its own (not just for that reason but due to power hunger as well which shattered its unity).

    Rome was built on slaves, and Rome trained its enemies by relying on foreigners.



    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 04:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    I think few flee from their culture, I think they flee from either war that ravages their land, or the politics which in turn is influenced by the culture.
    As long as they can adapt their culture to fit ours, I have no problem with it. Otherwise it's basically an invasion but without firing a shot.
    Last edited by Garian; 2013-01-06 at 05:55 PM.

  9. #269
    Warchief Letmesleep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    Could your poll options be any more biased?

    I'm a patriotic American. I believe in the ideals of social responsibility, regard for your neighbors, justice, freedom, and a government intended to work for it's people.

    I am not "right-minded." I am "reason minded." Smaller government will almost always be more effective government. Focused, forward-thinking, and largely tangential to our day to day lives.

    I also believe strongly that in todays' world, the idea of an armed citizenry serving as our primary line of defense is absurd. We need ICBMs and F15s, and those things do not belong in private hands.

    I also believe, in the age of the nuclear family, people do need outside assistance from time-to-time, so support sane, limited welfare. (Note, that is not even close to what we have now.)

    I believe that, good health being necessary to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that affordable healthcare should be provided to all citizens.
    I'm pretty much with you on all of this.

    I love America but I also recognize we also have some goofy, broken things going on around here. We're not what we could or should be yet, but that doesn't mean I don't love my home.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    As long as they can adapt their culture to fit ours, I have no problem with it. Otherwise it's basically an invasion but without firing a shot.
    What is your definition of fit? If someone wants sharia in Sweden, let them think that. If they want to start a movement, let them. It's their freedom to do what they want in Sweden, and it's not like any huge part of the immigrants support them, quite the opposite.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


  11. #271
    Stood in the Fire Zarintha's Avatar
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    Don't really know how to answer this poll. I support my Country because it's my home. I believe that for all it's shitty qualities, overall the UK is a good place to live and I'm thankful to have been born here. But I also believe that the EU is a good thing. Yes it's up shit's creek without a paddle at the moment, but if we isolate ourselves then the UK will become a tiny blip on the map and I truly believe we'd be worse off for it in the long run. So I'd vote - I'm European and I support my country and support the EU.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    What is your definition of fit? If someone wants sharia in Sweden, let them think that. If they want to start a movement, let them. It's their freedom to do what they want in Sweden, and it's not like any huge part of the immigrants support them, quite the opposite.
    Fit as in obey the law. Obviously Sharia law isn't compatible with ours. They'd have to take over the country to make that the law.

  13. #273
    High Overlord
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    The Founding Father's made it pretty clear that it is patriotic to oppose your government.

  14. #274
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post


    God damn Swedes. Grampa knows whats up.
    I have so many Simpsons clips that I want to play but can't because Fox is the original media nazi.

    This thread should be hijacked into a Simpsons thread. That would be infinitely better.

    OT: what a horrible poll.

  15. #275
    Mechagnome Fitzgerald77's Avatar
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    I support Canada AND the USA. How you like them apples?
    So good to be an ant who crawls atop a spinning rock
    Currently playing: Bioshock 2,Far Cry 3

  16. #276
    How is this stupid thread still up?

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Celltrex View Post
    How is this stupid thread still up?
    Still 6 pages left 'til page 20, so don't there's still hope.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


  18. #278
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Nice I screwed up my vote.. Selective reading trap...
    Well, I correct it here then.. I'm European and I support my country and/or SUPPORT the EU.
    That option is totally missing.
    I also support the US patriotism. Although, I admit, it gets at times a tad annoying. Sometimes a little less is more...
    After 15 years, I got more used to it, yet still sometimes it's just too much, too over-dramatized.
    It's not a bash, it's a feedback of someone living amongst Americans.
    Then again, during World Cup, European Championship, etc.. my neighbors are used to me raising the German Flag outside.. lol

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Government hating is fashionable in the US, unfortunately.

    And despite that, the re-election rate for representatives is around 90% and above 60% for Senators.
    I heard a possible explanation for that lately. People tend to think that their representative is "good" but that Congress as a whole is "bad."

  20. #280
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    I've never been one for nationalist sentiment. I have very little national pride beyond thinking English Summers are particularly beautiful (probably because they're so damn fleeting!), holding a huge appreciation for the NHS (hoping it lasts) and appreciation for the abundance of brilliant artists and thinkers who have come from this little lump of turf in the North Sea and respect for the people who defended that turf against Fascism in the 30s and 40s and those who today help people fighting oppression overseas.

    I'm an internationalist (one world, one unified human race etc) before anything else, that includes before being pro-EU too. I am sceptical of any notion that would erode away any method to appeal unjust lawful actions or violations of rights. That's why I think a unified Europe is good, though handling monetary unification has been terrible, but in no way should individual EU nations dissolve and/or lose their sovereignty. Rights for EU citizens (and hopefully someday for the whole world) should be universal, but I would much rather have a national court to appeal to as well as an international one, rather than just one unified judicial body. I think it's great that, if someone feels they have been judged unfairly in their native state, they are able to appeal it to the EU courts, but the trial 'at home' should never be taken away either. The more options concerning a person's rights, the better!
    Last edited by Baiyn; 2013-01-06 at 06:49 PM.

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