View Poll Results: Where do you stand?

Voters
108. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm American and I support America.

    41 37.96%
  • I'm American and I oppose America.

    13 12.04%
  • I'm European and I support my country and/or oppose the EU.

    28 25.93%
  • I'm European and I oppose my country and/or support the EU.

    14 12.96%
  • I'm of other nationality and I support my country.

    8 7.41%
  • I'm of another nationality and I oppose my country.

    4 3.70%
Page 3 of 15 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
13
... LastLast
  1. #41
    I don't like the poll.

    I'm American, and yes I do in general support my nation, but I don't and will never, support it blindly.

    And what's with the hate on "liberal"? Just because someone is left-wing doesn't mean they don't support their nation, rather, many like myself, actually form an opinion about the things the nation is doing, and do not blindly support it.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Perhaps I disagree with some of the reasons. I find Oriental-style governments are generally more effective at crisis resolution.
    It was an observation of the Founding Fathers (and one we've proven to be true, unfortunately) that government has a tendency to expand its own power. That's the entire reason the Constitution started out as a list of explicit things the federal government was allowed to do (and anything not in that list was verboten).

    While a small government can't ensure that no one is ever in need (as a large government could), a small government also cannot take away your right to privacy, a fair trial or any other abridgments of freedom. The former is an acceptable sacrifice for the latter.

    Jefferson said it best when he said "A government big enough to give you everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...."

  3. #43
    Looks like you jumped to another forum to spew your bullshit after you got banned from Facepunch, you never stop do you? Looking through your post history seems like you tuned your bullshit down a little here, afraid of getting banned again so you can't spread your shit all over here?


    Infracted.
    Last edited by Majad; 2013-01-06 at 07:26 PM.

  4. #44
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    15,642
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    It was an observation of the Founding Fathers (and one we've proven to be true, unfortunately) that government has a tendency to expand its own power. That's the entire reason the Constitution started out as a list of explicit things the federal government was allowed to do (and anything not in that list was verboten).

    While a small government can't ensure that no one is ever in need (as a large government could), a small government also cannot take away your right to privacy, a fair trial or any other abridgments of freedom. The former is an acceptable sacrifice for the latter.
    In your opinion. To me, having studied history and seen the repeated failure of 'small government', I would rather toss my lot in with the Oriental model of despotic monarchy and its descendants (i.e. centralized governments)
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    It was an observation of the Founding Fathers (and one we've proven to be true, unfortunately) that government has a tendency to expand its own power. That's the entire reason the Constitution started out as a list of explicit things the federal government was allowed to do (and anything not in that list was verboten).

    While a small government can't ensure that no one is ever in need (as a large government could), a small government also cannot take away your right to privacy, a fair trial or any other abridgments of freedom. The former is an acceptable sacrifice for the latter.

    Jefferson said it best when he said "A government big enough to give you everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...."
    Right, which is why the U.S. uses a shared Federalist system of governing. The only problem is, finding the right balance of power between state and federal governments.
    Last edited by Hastings; 2013-01-05 at 08:06 PM.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  6. #46
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    15,642
    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    I don't like the poll.

    I'm American, and yes I do in general support my nation, but I don't and will never, support it blindly.

    And what's with the hate on "liberal"? Just because someone is left-wing doesn't mean they don't support their nation, rather, many like myself, actually form an opinion about the things the nation is doing, and do not blindly support it.
    It's a dirty word to the uneducated. To the educated, it is a word with many variations in meaning. One can be a liberal Republican, for instance.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 12:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    Right, which is why the U.S. uses a Federalist system of governing. The only problem is, finding the right balance of power between state and federal governments.
    And funnily enough, the government the Founders put together was insufficient to deal with internal crises. Hence the shift from dual federalism to shared federalism.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    In your opinion. To me, having studied history and seen the repeated failure of 'small government', I would rather toss my lot in with the Oriental model of despotic monarchy and its descendants (i.e. centralized governments)
    Define what constitutes a "failure" in government and we can begin this discussion.

  8. #48
    Fluffy Kitten Kasierith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    St Petersburg
    Posts
    9,955
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    In your opinion. To me, having studied history and seen the repeated failure of 'small government', I would rather toss my lot in with the Oriental model of despotic monarchy and its descendants (i.e. centralized governments)
    An enlightened oligarchy is the way to go; a monarchy puts too much on one line, which as we can see from the Khans is ultimately a bad thing.

  9. #49
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    15,642
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Define what constitutes a "failure" in government and we can begin this discussion.
    An inability to deal with domestic or external crisis necessitating a strong hand at the wheel.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 12:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    An enlightened oligarchy is the way to go; a monarchy puts too much on one line, which as we can see from the Khans is ultimately a bad thing.
    I know, what I mean by 'despotic monarchy' in this case refers to a vein of governments in the Oriental fashion; more centralized, authoritarian, unitary, etc.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    An inability to deal with domestic or external crisis necessitating a strong hand at the wheel.
    Which is why the government defined by the Articles of Confederation ultimately failed, and a government defined by the Constitution came to be.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  11. #51
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    15,642
    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    Which is why the government defined by the Articles of Confederation ultimately failed, and a government defined by the Constitution came to be.
    And even that government failed, as seen during the Civil War and the Great Depression, and even during the Civil Rights movement. The US is no longer the Mediterranean federal state it was at its founding, it is now growing increasingly akin to a European centralized Republic (not quickly enough for my liking, however. FORCE THE PROCESS.)
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    In your opinion. To me, having studied history and seen the repeated failure of 'small government', I would rather toss my lot in with the Oriental model of despotic monarchy and its descendants (i.e. centralized governments)
    Give one example of a country with limited government and an educated populace failing in the last 300 years. Because I can give you many examples of big government countries with educated populations failing.

  13. #53
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Australian in NZ
    Posts
    586
    Quote Originally Posted by jetriot View Post
    Because I can give you many examples of big government countries with educated populations failing.
    Look no far than Europe. Some countries are warming up for the goose step.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    And even that government failed, as seen during the Civil War and the Great Depression, and even during the Civil Rights movement. The US is no longer the Mediterranean federal state it was at its founding, it is now growing increasingly akin to a European centralized Republic (not quickly enough for my liking, however. FORCE THE PROCESS.)
    While it would be good, for some aspects to be akin to a European centralized Republic, unless this change is extremely gradual (Which it seems it is), how would the States let such a thing happen? Not to mention the people, many here are terrified of a large central government.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  15. #55
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    15,642
    Quote Originally Posted by jetriot View Post
    Give one example of a country with limited government and an educated populace failing in the last 300 years. Because I can give you many examples of big government countries with educated populations failing.
    An 'educated populace'? No such country has ever existed or will ever exist. The majority of the population of any state is unconcerned with higher ideals, and too focused on the business of simply existing.

    It depends what is meant by 'failure'. As I elaborated in another thread, what tends to happen is that smaller governments tend to appeal to the Oriental model and centralize power in order to deal with a crisis, whether it is Rome under Augustus or the United States under Lincoln or Roosevelt.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  16. #56
    The Lightbringer JfmC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Antwerp City
    Posts
    3,382
    Quote Originally Posted by iscalio View Post
    Why would you think that support for the European Union would go hand in hand with opposition to one's own country?
    I was thinking the same question.
    And I don't think patriotism is evil, but I do think it can lead to bad things. (Nazi-Germany for example)
    Its like a lot of things, a bit is ok, but to much is a very bad thing.
    Thread:Will we ever create A.I?
    So I just watched Her and it gave me a deep thought. Will man ever create an artificial consciousness or is it impossible. Anyone have any ideas?
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    We are currently creating "A.S" - artificial stupidity. A.K.A internet forums

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    Look no far than Europe. Some countries are warming up for the goose step.
    Or, for that matter, Australia, which is the world's leader in low average IQ.
    See? I can do this stuff too!

  18. #58
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    15,642
    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    While it would be good, for some aspects to be akin to a European centralized Republic, unless this change is extremely gradual (Which it seems it is), how would the States let such a thing happen? Not to mention the people, many here are terrified of a large central government.
    Fun fact; the things that people complain 'should be the province of the states' is in fact legally their province. They could take back power at any time they wished.

    But they don't, for a very important reason. The Federal government can appropriate a much vaster sum of monies than any single state can.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 12:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Or, for that matter, Australia, which is the world's leader in low average IQ.
    See? I can do this stuff too!
    The average IQ is by definition 100.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Wait... who is oppressing who now? Only country to downright Opress Islam was India... and Israel until a party switch is changed.
    The Muslims did the opression in the Balkans. Sold us as animals.

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...9863/blood-tax

    "The conquered are slaves of the conquerors, to whom their goods, their women, and their children belong as lawful possession.." - Kara Khalil Chendereli, founder of the Janissaries

  20. #60
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Australian in NZ
    Posts
    586
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Or, for that matter, Australia, which is the world's leader in low average IQ.
    See? I can do this stuff too!
    Sure mate, but stop emigrating down under please.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •