View Poll Results: Where do you stand?

Voters
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  • I'm American and I support America.

    41 37.96%
  • I'm American and I oppose America.

    13 12.04%
  • I'm European and I support my country and/or oppose the EU.

    28 25.93%
  • I'm European and I oppose my country and/or support the EU.

    14 12.96%
  • I'm of other nationality and I support my country.

    8 7.41%
  • I'm of another nationality and I oppose my country.

    4 3.70%
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    Sure mate, but stop emigrating down under please.
    Why? I rather like Australia.
    My point was that blind negative statements can be made about every place, and that, therefore, your statement was hypocritical.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    As you may have noticed, many liberals have been attacking the idea of patriotism. They argue that there is no logical reason to support the nation-state and that patriotism is "evil," because it promotes the idea that America is "better" than other countries.
    i dont hear anybody attack patriotism. i see people object to rabid nationalism, and the ability of you and people like you to differentiate the 2 is the biggest problem with the US today imo. the most important thing the founders did is the one thing the modern right wing is just fundamentally unable to grasp: they recognized that things change, and set things up so that our country could change to suit its needs for any given time or situation
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Meet the new derp.

    Same as the old derp.

  3. #63
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    The Muslims did the opression in the Balkans. Sold us as animals.

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...9863/blood-tax

    "The conquered are slaves of the conquerors, to whom their goods, their women, and their children belong as lawful possession.." - Kara Khalil Chendereli, founder of the Janissaries
    So did the Romans, the Greeks, etc. There is a reason the word Slave and Slav are cognates.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    An inability to deal with domestic or external crisis necessitating a strong hand at the wheel.
    So... the Civil War?

    The question regarding dual vs shared Federalism is not "Should the states be allowed to do whatever they want without the Federal government telling them no". The question is "Does the Federal government have unlimited authority to tell the states what to do?"

    The problem is that no one seems to respect the 10th Amendment to the Constitution. It's the law that everyone looks and says "Boy that sure is an amendment. Let's look more closely at a single sentence in the Articles and use it to undermine that entire thing."

    The Constitution is supposed to be a limiter on what the federal government is and is not allowed to do.

    No one is denying that a strong central government to bind the states together is a good thing. But the general welfare and commerce clauses have been used as carte blanche to do everything from build a national highway (not objectionable) to the NDAA and warrantless wiretapping (a blatant disregard for the 4th Amendment).

    We're saying that a strong central government attempting to treat 320 million people as if they're all the same is a load of shit, and even the Founding Fathers knew it. A strong central government does not have to be a LARGE central government.
    Last edited by Laize; 2013-01-05 at 08:25 PM.

  5. #65
    Mechagnome Clockworks's Avatar
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    I am from Sweden and i HATE and DETEST the EU, I want out of it right now right here and keep my cash in my country.

    For the well being of my country!
    I'm a stranger, I'm a changer.
    And I'm danger... maybe...

    http://youtu.be/dNEtnyAm6S4

  6. #66
    Warchief Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    So... the Civil War?

    The question regarding dual vs shared Federalism is not "Should the states be allowed to do whatever they want without the Federal government telling them no". The question is "Does the Federal government have unlimited authority to tell the states what to do?"

    The problem is that no one seems to respect the 10th Amendment to the Constitution. It's the law that everyone looks and says "Boy that sure is an amendment. Let's look more closely at a single sentence in the Articles and use it to undermine that entire thing."

    The Constitution is supposed to be a limiter on what the federal government is and is not allowed to do.

    No one is denying that a strong central government to bind the states together is a good thing.

    We're saying that a strong central government attempting to treat 320 million people as if they're all the same is a load of shit, and even the Founding Fathers knew it.
    Well, the Federal government, should in my opinion be able to tell the States what to do for certain cases, example, many social issues such as gay marriage, abortion, and the like. But, there are some checks against the Federal government just overwhelming the states power, the people if they could be mobilized.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  7. #67
    Mechagnome
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    I believe you don't understand anything about patriotism and the "idea" of America Op, but nice try !

  8. #68
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    So... the Civil War?

    The question regarding dual vs shared Federalism is not "Should the states be allowed to do whatever they want without the Federal government telling them no". The question is "Does the Federal government have unlimited authority to tell the states what to do?"

    The problem is that no one seems to respect the 10th Amendment to the Constitution. It's the law that everyone looks and says "Boy that sure is an amendment. Let's look more closely at a single sentence in the Articles and use it to undermine that entire thing."

    The Constitution is supposed to be a limiter on what the federal government is and is not allowed to do.

    No one is denying that a strong central government to bind the states together is a good thing.

    We're saying that a strong central government attempting to treat 320 million people as if they're all the same is a load of shit, and even the Founding Fathers knew it.
    The Civil War is an example of the inability of small government to handle a crisis, yes.

    Again, the states could take back their 'rights' at any time, but they don't because they want the Federal government's money. The Constitution is no longer just a limiter on Federal power, it is a foundation and framework. Constitutional elasticity is an organic necessity, and any who say otherwise are quite frankly stupid.

    Why is treating people the same a bad thing? You're conflating administrative failure with failure of governance.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    So did the Romans, the Greeks, etc. There is a reason the word Slave and Slav are cognates.
    And there is a reason we hate foreigners. You should know. The western media out did themselves before and during the Euro cup, trying to portray Ukraine as the most racist place in the world, remember?

    Also Slava in Slavic means glory.

  10. #70
    Dreadlord larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Why? I rather like Australia.
    My point was that blind negative statements can be made about every place, and that, therefore, your statement was hypocritical.
    Nothing hypocritical. Big governments = inflexible leviathans with no room for maneuver to implement effective reforms = Europe is in deep shit. It's very funny when Europeans try to claim the high ground, how sensible they are, how green, how welfairy (lol), how they are the most intelligent on planet earth, free healthcare... and all that crap when at the same time they are emigrating faster than the french when they retreat.

  11. #71
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    And there is a reason we hate foreigners. You should know. The western media out did themselves before and during the Euro cup to portray Ukraine as the most racist place in the world, remember?
    Crimes committed by great powers in the past are a justification for xenophobia, apparently.

    Perhaps you should stop giving credence to claims of racism if you're so concerned about being branded a racist.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    And there is a reason we hate foreigners. You should know. The western media out did themselves before and during the Euro cup, trying to portray Ukraine as the most racist place in the world, remember?
    Ehm... No. No; I don't remember. Sorry, but when I think of the Ukraine, 'racism' didn't feature. Well; until now, possibly. Thanks for that. -_-

  13. #73
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    Nothing hypocritical. Big governments = inflexible leviathans with no room for maneuver to implement effective reforms = Europe is in deep shit. It's very funny when Europeans try to claim the high ground, how sensible they are, how green, how welfairy (lol), how they are the most intelligent on planet earth, free healthcare... and all that crap when at the same time they are emigrating faster than the french when they retreat.
    As I said, big governments generally respond to crises more effectively.

    Sorry, I should clarify. Big -centralized- governments, not big bloated governments.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  14. #74
    Dreadlord larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    As I said, big governments generally respond to crises more effectively.

    Sorry, I should clarify. Big -centralized- governments, not big bloated governments.
    I got your point. France. Big Lol mate. Allons enfants and all that crap.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    Well, the Federal government, should in my opinion be able to tell the States what to do for certain cases, example, many social issues such as gay marriage, abortion, and the like. But, there are some checks against the Federal government just overwhelming the states power, the people if they could be mobilized.
    We have an amendment process for things such as civil rights. If something is important enough, it SHOULD be an amendment. Things like that were why the amendment process is there in the first place.

    A Constitutional amendment isn't the Federal Government telling anyone to do anything. At least not directly. Because an Amendment is ratified by a full 3/4 of the states' legislatures (or conventions), it is the people and states themselves who are telling the Federal government what to do (or expanding the federal government's power to do something the people view as necessary).

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    Nothing hypocritical. Big governments = inflexible leviathans with no room for maneuver to implement effective reforms = Europe is in deep shit. It's very funny when Europeans try to claim the high ground, how sensible they are, how green, how welfairy (lol), how they are the most intelligent on planet earth, free healthcare... and all that crap when at the same time they are emigrating faster than the french when they retreat.
    Maybe that's just because you have a prejudice that all Europeans are so happy with their countries.
    They're generally not, you see. Sure; they're happy with the whole green thing, with welfare (though that should be a bit better, honestly), with insurances... But that doesn't mean they're happy with everything else.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    As I said, big governments generally respond to crises more effectively.

    Sorry, I should clarify. Big -centralized- governments, not big bloated governments.
    A government need not be large to be strong.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    And there is a reason we hate foreigners. You should know. The western media out did themselves before and during the Euro cup, trying to portray Ukraine as the most racist place in the world, remember?

    Also Slava in Slavic means glory.
    So your nationality shows it's hand, how atypical you poison the image of Slavs further with your narrow minded views and single minded stupidity.

  19. #79
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    I got your point. France. Big Lol mate. Allons enfants and all that crap.
    Very droll. France has its set of problems, just like the US has its set of problems, as does every other Western country. But do not confuse transient issues with analyses of systemic failure and success.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 12:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    A government need not be large to be strong.
    I disagree. What makes a government 'small' is precisely that its powers and authority are limited, ergo making it weak.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  20. #80
    Banned The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    A government need not be large to be strong.
    Well, what is the difference? To me, a Government should handle Public services, Education, law, Fire and security, transport, defense and health.

    Anything else is not needed really, how is this defined as a large or strong government?

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