View Poll Results: Where do you stand?

Voters
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  • I'm American and I support America.

    41 37.96%
  • I'm American and I oppose America.

    13 12.04%
  • I'm European and I support my country and/or oppose the EU.

    28 25.93%
  • I'm European and I oppose my country and/or support the EU.

    14 12.96%
  • I'm of other nationality and I support my country.

    8 7.41%
  • I'm of another nationality and I oppose my country.

    4 3.70%
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  1. #101
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I think Didactic's ideas regarding government are stupid and dangerous. Yet anyone with half a brain knows that 100% employment is a bad thing.
    Full employment is not 100% employment for most schools of economic thought. Anyone with a Bachelor of Economics knows that.
    Last edited by larrakeyah; 2013-01-05 at 08:50 PM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Really?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-a-coffin.html

    "Stay at home, watch it on TV. Don't even risk it ... because you could end up coming back in a coffin."

    The "Liberal" media ran stuff like that all the time. People from the US always wonder why no one is Patriotic in Europe. Well you can see why. Second you say you love your country and don't want foreign influence you are branded a racist.
    You realize that that's in the Telegraph, right..?
    First off: Most of the EU countries don't have the Telegraph.
    Second: It's a sports item. In an English newspaper. Yeah; I've got some prejudice about sports in the English media. Translating some pieces made me cringe. If it's in an English sports section, you shouldn't take it seriously.

  3. #103
    Banned The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I think Didactic's ideas regarding government are stupid and dangerous. Yet anyone with half a brain knows that 100% employment is a bad thing.
    Your ideas about government are confusing and based off of semantics, you basically say the Government isn't big if it has huge administration because it has "Laws" that make it not able to do... some things?

    That sounds like a constitution, something EVERY Western country has.

  4. #104
    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
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    Don't hate nor do I love my country. Although I'd say I'm lucky to have been in one of the most non-oppressive & tolerant countries in the world.

    I feel some sense of belonging watching various sports where my countrymen compete in, and when mentioned in International news. But other than that I feel nothing special.

    Patriotism is pretty much a no go for me, going by the wiki definition it basically means blind loyalty to your country. Nationalism is a little more "open-minded" but I don't think I'd qualify for that group either. I'm just sort of neutral/not interested; if anything I'd say I'm "loyal" to logic, reason & humanism.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  5. #105
    Banned The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    Full employment is not 100% employment for most schools of economic thought.
    Them schools of thought should grab a dictionary, because thats exactly what Full Employment means? Or do you want the smarter term?

    Where Full Employment means all jobs are filled up?

  6. #106
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Your ideas about government are confusing and based off of semantics, you basically say the Government isn't big if it has huge administration because it has "Laws" that make it not able to do... some things?

    That sounds like a constitution, something EVERY Western country has.
    Exactly. When I say 'strong government' I do not mean 'unbounded government'. For the simple reason that despotic monarchies and governments of that ilk tend to calcify and lose sight of the interests of the masses, the problem of the Philosopher King.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  7. #107
    I am Murloc! Tomatketchup's Avatar
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    Socialliberal, love my country to death, I'm also for the EU. Kinda narrow-minded to assume that every European patriot hates the EU and vice versa, we're not a black and white people you know.
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    And managing that army and funding by definition requires increased administration, making it a large government. QED.
    No, it would be large government if it abused army given to it (for purposes of defending the nation) to police the nation instead. Increased administrative costs to not translate directly to increased size of government. In case you're still not grasping it, "size" of government is in reference to the areas in which it exerts power over the lives of its citizens. Not necessarily its budget.

    $600 billion in Defense spending isn't large government as long as that money IS used exclusively for the sole purpose of Defense.

    That same amount of money DOES become large government in the event its used to detain American citizens without trial, subvert the 4th amendment with warrantless wiretaps and other invasive behaviors such as setting up security cameras in public places "for our safety".

    Here's a picture of large government. I'm sure the British must have loved seeing this one had they read 1984.



    Because India itself is an artifice, and given their ethnic and religious diversity they are doing quite well.
    India is a nightmare for anyone living in it. Have you not been reading the news?

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Them schools of thought should grab a dictionary, because thats exactly what Full Employment means? Or do you want the smarter term?

    Where Full Employment means all jobs are filled up?
    Full employment: When all jobs are taken.
    100% employment: When all of the populace has a job.

    Those things are quite different.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Socialliberal, love my country to death, I'm also for the EU. Kinda narrow-minded to assume that every European patriot hates the EU and vice versa, we're not a black and white people you know.
    Considering the EU is basically a super Trade Agreement, why do nationalists hate it so?

  11. #111
    I am Murloc! Tomatketchup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Patriotism is pretty much a no go for me, going by the wiki definition it basically means blind loyalty to your country. Nationalism is a little more "open-minded" but I don't think I'd qualify for that group either. I'm just sort of neutral/not interested; if anything I'd say I'm "loyal" to logic, reason & humanism.
    What kind of wiki have you looked at? Nationalism is blind devotion for your country, hating anything that isn't of your nationality, whereas patriotism is just love for your country and the want of supporting it.
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Vellerix View Post
    I don't think patriotism is a bad thing, I think if you believe in your country and are proud of it, there's no shame in expressing your pride. But I do feel like there is a fine line between being proud of your own country, and a misplaced sense of superiority to others, myself, I try to be proud of my country, but at the same time I know that we are not perfect, and there is always room to improve, we should always be willing to find places to improve ourselves and move on as a nation, and sometimes that means identifying things about ourselves we don't like to admit.

    But that's ok, every country has its strengths and weaknesses, we should celebrate the good and do away with the bad where possible
    American Patriotism is not the cause of our superiority complex "superior firepower is"

    Even for all the shortcomings of the modern American culture we can take solace in the fact that no external source can use force to change us into something we are not content with.

    Sure we use our firepower to play peacekeeping middleman but make no mistake we do so because our government believes it to be in our best interest (even if we don't always agree with them"

    Furthermore should a serious threat arise against us we will fight it head on.

    And we will do one hell of a lot better defending our own soil than some nation who screwed up and took firearms away from their civilians.

  13. #113
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    No, it would be large government if it abused army given to it (for purposes of defending the nation) to police the nation instead. Increased administrative costs to not translate directly to increased size of government. In case you're still not grasping it, "size" of government is in reference to the areas in which it exerts power over the lives of its citizens. Not necessarily its budget.

    $600 billion in Defense spending isn't large government as long as that money IS used exclusively for the sole purpose of Defense.

    That same amount of money DOES become large government in the event its used to detain American citizens without trial, subvert the 4th amendment with warrantless wiretaps and other invasive behaviors such as setting up security cameras in public places "for our safety".

    Here's a picture of large government. I'm sure the British must have loved seeing this one had they read 1984.

    India is a nightmare for anyone living in it. Have you not been reading the news?
    What does abusing the Armed Forces have to do with the size of a government? Intrusiveness and size are two different things, and nowhere have I said I supported a government of unlimited intrusive ability.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Considering the EU is basically a super Trade Agreement, why do nationalists hate it so?
    They are telling us how and where to spend our taxes.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Considering the EU is basically a super Trade Agreement, why do nationalists hate it so?
    If I had to guess, it would be because government has a tendency to expand its own power sphere... and the EU looks to be the beginnings of a Federal state.

  16. #116
    Banned The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Beneath the watchful eyes
    By UK Law, you are not allowed to be recorded without a notice. This poster and posters on buses are that notice. They are also only done in public sectors. I know for a fact that UK laws are a bit nanny-stateish for their own good, but considering I was once mugged on a bus and they managed to catch the felon via tape is enough for me to know that my public transport is not a huge pile of trash like the American ones

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    They are telling us how and where to spend our taxes.
    Haha... Hey that's what the US government tells the states!

  18. #118
    I am Murloc! Tomatketchup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Considering the EU is basically a super Trade Agreement, why do nationalists hate it so?
    Nationalists are dumbasses. They hate immigrants because of their culture and lifestyle, yet it's always been massive floods of immigrants that has made countries economic superpowers. For example, Sweden had a massive flood of immigrants from southern Europe during the 60s, and Sweden became one of the richest countries in the world because of the cheap workforce we got.
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  19. #119
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Them schools of thought should grab a dictionary, because thats exactly what Full Employment means? Or do you want the smarter term?

    Where Full Employment means all jobs are filled up?
    Maybe they should grab a dictionary. Still if you want to debate economics you have to use technical terms and not layman's language.

  20. #120
    Banned The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    They are telling us how and where to spend our taxes.
    If your case Cybran, they're telling your very fat greedy selfish Government to stop blocking trade with Russia and stop being a huge waste of space on the European Market.

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