View Poll Results: Do you sign the petition to remove flying mounts?

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  • YES

    391 22.45%
  • NO

    1,271 72.96%
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    80 4.59%
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  1. #21
    Field Marshal High General Turalyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yogg-Saron, God of Death View Post
    Wrong. I didn't notice that WoW was ruined. All I noticed was all the auctions in the AH and the people around me on flying mounts and normal mounts, or roleplayers passing by.


    How long has WoW been ruined by the way? I must've been continuing, not noticing due to being blissfully ignorant. How have I not noticed that WoW was ruined all this time!
    Well, simply put, people have been complaining since around the middle of WotLK that the game feels dead and boring. The most radical change to the game are flying mounts. I realize they were introduced in TBC - but flying mounts make sense in Outland as it's a shattered rock floating around in space, already in part disconnected from the high fantasy-mood of traditional Azeroth. Taking flying to the old, and subsequent worlds, however, was bad imo. I think that's the main cause people don't feel as much for the game any longer, but without realising it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by High General Turalyon View Post
    Thought: So a lot of people prefer playing in a spreadsheet, as opposed to an online world, then?

    Above statement is a bit cheeky, but you catch my drift. The most frequent complaint I see on these forums is that flying ruined everything. Of course everything is more convenient when you can fly everywhere, but everything is also more convenient if Blizzard were to hand out a billion gold to every player. It would, however, ruin the game - much like flying did to some extent.

    I really cannot see how flying ruined the game its only enhanced it really....


    Do I want to walk through a zone I have lvl 11 char on and seen it all 1000's of times .... is it new and exciting and interesting ... ummm no entirely the opposite.
    Now if I want to look at something I fly there and actually look at it from a new persepctive ie in the air ..... yes thats right flying actually adds more interest and new dimensions for exploring lol
    Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
    Classic: "The tank is the driver, the healer is the fuel, and the DPS are the kids sitting in the back seat screaming and asking if they're there yet."
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by High General Turalyon View Post
    Thought: So a lot of people prefer playing in a spreadsheet, as opposed to an online world, then?
    Besides questing and resource gathering (both need to be on the ground), what really much you do on the "world" that flying takes away?

    Oh, nevermind, I know the answer, it's ganking.

  4. #24
    it's funny how the pool looks like a big middle finger now lol

  5. #25
    I liked flying mounts in TBC and wrath because you couldnt fly until almost maxe level, which was fine, because the final quest zones were built around it.

    Netherwing in Shadowmoon required flying, getting to Tempest Keep required flying (before they fixed it to allow warlock to actually use their summon stone in netherstorm)

    Storm Peaks once you got further into the Hodir chain required it, and Icecrown required it to get to the air ship.

    All of the zones prior to the final zones of the expansion were easily traversable by ground mounts. Nothing in the first few zones of these expansions required flying before max level. Hellfire, borean, Zangarmarsh, nagrnad grissly hills dragon blight, none of them required flying.

    Then Cata hit and it screwed it all up. They could have done the same as the previous expansions, by making "old world flying" available at max level or close to max level (Cold weather was available at level 77), but they didn't, it is available as soon as you hit 60. The only cata zones that requires flying is Deepholm. The other zones are easily doable with a ground mount. If they made Deepholm the last zone, instead of Twilight Highlands, they could have had players on ground mounts till right at the end of the leveling process, as they had done in TBC, wrath, and have done again in MOP (cant fly till 90) although pretty much only vale of the eternal blossoms requires flying to get to the rare spawn hozen.

    I don't think flying mounts are a problem, it's that cata screwed up when we get to use them and everyone got used to it. If cata had kept in line with the other expansions, and they didnt lower the level at which you could fly, then flying mounts would be more a reward then oh its just another mount.

    They could have kept the minimum level to fly in general at 70 (68 for druids), and you dont even need to fly in northrend till 77 so that didnt really need to be changed, made deepholm the last zone and allow "old world flying" at 84 or 85, then move into MOP were you dont even need to fly till level 90 anyways.

    Why does a level 60 need to use a flying mount to get around hellfire peninsula? Why does a level 68/69/70 need flying to get around borean tundra?

    At level 80 you dont really need flying to get around hyjal. But an 82/83/84 requires it to get around deepholm because there are questing areas inaccessable to ground mounts.

    Deepholm, Storm Peaks and Icecrown require a flying mount to complete the main story line chain. Shadowmoon only requires flying for netherwing dailies, and Netherstorm requires flying to get to the 3 dungeons and raid.
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2013-01-05 at 08:17 PM.
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  6. #26
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    Flying mounts will NEVER be removed from World of Warcraft. Get over it, or move on.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by High General Turalyon View Post
    Well, simply put, people have been complaining since around the middle of WotLK that the game feels dead and boring. The most radical change to the game are flying mounts. I realize they were introduced in TBC - but flying mounts make sense in Outland as it's a shattered rock floating around in space, already in part disconnected from the high fantasy-mood of traditional Azeroth. Taking flying to the old, and subsequent worlds, however, was bad imo. I think that's the main cause people don't feel as much for the game any longer, but without realising it.
    I notice no one comments on the 10 min run from one end of felwood to the other or the shear bordom of the length of the barrens as it used to be, my how people look through rose tinted glasses. Flying mounts have not ruined the game at all, the fact its 8 years old has a lot to do with old content getting stale etc once seen many many many times.
    Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
    Classic: "The tank is the driver, the healer is the fuel, and the DPS are the kids sitting in the back seat screaming and asking if they're there yet."
    Irony >> "do they even realize that having a state religion IS THE REASON WE LEFT BRITTEN? god these people are idiots"

  8. #28
    Field Marshal High General Turalyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakari View Post
    I really cannot see how flying ruined the game its only enhanced it really....


    Do I want to walk through a zone I have lvl 11 char on and seen it all 1000's of times .... is it new and exciting and interesting ... ummm no entirely the opposite.
    Now if I want to look at something I fly there and actually look at it from a new persepctive ie in the air ..... yes thats right flying actually adds more interest and new dimensions for exploring lol
    Well each to his own. But if leveling a lot of alts is your main problem with walking, then I think that problem lies in other design issues rather than walking. Talking of effectiveness, flying only speeds up the process of leveling - it doesn't make it more fun. The rate of leveling can, as we have seen, be improved by other routes, like heirlooms and RAF bonuses. A character can level up in literally dozens of different ways nowadays, and in different parts of the world. Riding/walking shouldn't be the problem.

    Why even play an MMO if you dislike the 'world'-part? Just go play a MOBA if all you want is competition and a chat room?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by High General Turalyon View Post
    Well, simply put, people have been complaining since around the middle of WotLK that the game feels dead and boring. The most radical change to the game are flying mounts. I realize they were introduced in TBC - but flying mounts make sense in Outland as it's a shattered rock floating around in space, already in part disconnected from the high fantasy-mood of traditional Azeroth. Taking flying to the old, and subsequent worlds, however, was bad imo. I think that's the main cause people don't feel as much for the game any longer, but without realising it.

    You're wrong. 'Vocal Minority' is the name of this syndrome you described. You have no idea how many more people wanted flying in Azeroth after TBC's launch than are now whining about wanting it removed. (Which, by the way, are more than often the exact same people as the last time.)

    Thanks for the awesome sig, Lady Amuno.

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    In short: No.

    Flying mounts ruined nothing. It's called will power. If you want to see the scenery and not just fly over the top of it, use said will power and DON'T use your flying mount.
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  11. #31
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    I get the idea behind it, but I like flying.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by High General Turalyon View Post
    Thought: So a lot of people prefer playing in a spreadsheet, as opposed to an online world, then?
    This all comes down to personal preference.

    Taking your argument to an extreme end. why stop at flying mounts? Want the world to feel massive? Let's remove ground mounts as well. We should put a "fatigue" bar on people as there is no way you should be able to run across a continent non-stop, so we should make them walk!

    Most people who have played the game for a long time have been there, done that. The barrens was expansive the first time I saw it on foot The 75th time I was moving through it was just a chore, or it was time for me to grab a beer as I traveled on a flight path. Flying mounts have not removed anything for me

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Yogg-Saron, God of Death View Post
    This really. This is what I always say. I honestly find it a bit selfish that you would have something removed because you lack the self-control to explore something by foot due to the fact that there is convenience. I actually find it a bit appalling.

    Definite NO from me.
    It's nothing to do with that whatsoever. We actually want you to experience a better game without flying mounts. We want to give you something, not take something away.

    Flying mounts remove mystery, atmosphere, and danger. The world shrinks entirely when you can fly over it. It becomes boring and dull. Not only that, but there are a lot of things which we cannot have simply due to the existence of flying mounts. Guild Wars 2 jumping puzzles, obstacles in your path that can come in various forms, things that make the world feel alive and interesting.

    Imagine you're on a quest and while making your way there, you come across a giant lake of lava. This stands in between you and your goal.

    Without flying mounts, this poses an interesting challenge: how do you get past it? Do you go around? Do you need to find some sort of power up to enable you to float over, or swim through without dying?

    With flying mounts, you just fly over it. Done.

    Or how about a single bridge over a gigantic ravine. On the bridge is a guardian, a very tough elite mob that you need to take down in order to progress. Without flying mounts, it's a difficult and engaging battle, epic and fascinating.

    With flying mounts, you just fly over it. Done.

    You know how a lot of people have been complaining about the Hobbit, saying 'wtf why don't they just use the eagles to fly all the way to their goal?'. Exact same thing: FLYING IS BORING.

    Being able to just fly directly to your destination removes the journey, the challenge, and the excitement. It's dull, boring, and we're missing out on so, SO much because of their existence.

    The sentiment 'well just don't use flying mounts lol' is ignorant. Due to their simple existence Blizzard need to take them into account. They cannot assume we're going to not use them, because let's be honest: we're MMO players. A lot of us take the path of least resistance to our goal. We're all about efficiency. So Blizzard need to assume we're going to use our flying mounts, so there's a ton of things they simply cannot design or implement because of their existence.

    It's horrible and I'm absolutely certain Ghostcrawler isn't the only developer who regrets the implementation of flying mounts. I'd imagine most of them regret it, but they also know (as evidenced by the replies in this thread) that they simply cannot remove flying mounts. It would do significant damage to the game if it wasn't done in the right way.

    So they contain the problem. They take flying mounts away from us for as long as they are able. But they always have to give them back. A shame.

  14. #34
    Make sure you send this "petition" as well when No gets the clear win.
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    It's a #$^&*@ fantasy game. You're a blue space goat riding around on flying serpents killing dragons the size of continents. And you're wondering why a gryphon doesn't look like an eagle?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    It's nothing to do with that whatsoever. We actually want you to experience a better game without flying mounts. We want to give you something, not take something away.

    Flying mounts remove mystery, atmosphere, and danger. The world shrinks entirely when you can fly over it. It becomes boring and dull. Not only that, but there are a lot of things which we cannot have simply due to the existence of flying mounts. Guild Wars 2 jumping puzzles, obstacles in your path that can come in various forms, things that make the world feel alive and interesting.

    Imagine you're on a quest and while making your way there, you come across a giant lake of lava. This stands in between you and your goal.

    Without flying mounts, this poses an interesting challenge: how do you get past it? Do you go around? Do you need to find some sort of power up to enable you to float over, or swim through without dying?

    With flying mounts, you just fly over it. Done.

    Or how about a single bridge over a gigantic ravine. On the bridge is a guardian, a very tough elite mob that you need to take down in order to progress. Without flying mounts, it's a difficult and engaging battle, epic and fascinating.

    With flying mounts, you just fly over it. Done.

    You know how a lot of people have been complaining about the Hobbit, saying 'wtf why don't they just use the eagles to fly all the way to their goal?'. Exact same thing: FLYING IS BORING.

    Being able to just fly directly to your destination removes the journey, the challenge, and the excitement. It's dull, boring, and we're missing out on so, SO much because of their existence.

    The sentiment 'well just don't use flying mounts lol' is ignorant. Due to their simple existence Blizzard need to take them into account. They cannot assume we're going to not use them, because let's be honest: we're MMO players. A lot of us take the path of least resistance to our goal. We're all about efficiency. So Blizzard need to assume we're going to use our flying mounts, so there's a ton of things they simply cannot design or implement because of their existence.

    It's horrible and I'm absolutely certain Ghostcrawler isn't the only developer who regrets the implementation of flying mounts. I'd imagine most of them regret it, but they also know (as evidenced by the replies in this thread) that they simply cannot remove flying mounts. It would do significant damage to the game if it wasn't done in the right way.

    So they contain the problem. They take flying mounts away from us for as long as they are able. But they always have to give them back. A shame.

    That's ridiculous. So you want to remove something so that the people who don't want it removes can experience it the way you want to experience it. People are not missing out on something and if people think they are, they choose for themselves to travel by foot.

    That said, I started playing in TBC. I know very well how it was, and while slightly amusing the first time, the times thereafter were just a chore.

    Again, poppycock. It's utter selfishness.

    Thanks for the awesome sig, Lady Amuno.

  16. #36
    All that is fun and all, Kisho, at the first time. Not at the nth time, when you already know the place like the palm of your hand (I know I do with 75% of WoW zones).

    So, what's the purpose of taking the flying mounts again?

  17. #37
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    To add a bit more to the discussion - it's great to see Azeroth from the ground and that's why flying is only available at Level 60. That's why they prevent you from using flying mounts in Pandaria before Level 90. I enjoy seeing Azeroth from the ground when I level up a new character. But to remove flying mounts now, when everybody is not only used to them, but when a lot of zones are designed with flying mounts in mind, is impossible. It would require quite some work and that after they already put a lot of work into redesigning the old world for flying mounts. It would have a negative impact on players and the game.

    If you're just about to make a completely new game, then it's fine to think about whether flying is good for the game, but now, at this point, you don't just remove a feature like that. However, I think flying in general is just a really cool thing, so I'm glad it's there. It feels much more free.
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  18. #38
    Legendary! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    I like how people like to hate on flying mounts, but go out of their way to "exempt" the "glorious and infallible" BC from any liability...


    Regardless, flying mounts aren't going anywhere. "World PvP" hasn't existed in any appreciable margin since before BGs were put in. The only sense of mystery that existed on Azeroth prior wasn't due to some profound blizzard design; they were either untextured swatches of terrain or areas you simply weren't supposed to be able to get to.

    Instead of arguing for something insane that I'd wager a large majority of the playerbase would absolutely hate, try a more reasoned approach... Like making it so flying mounts must "ramp up" in speed to take off, and slow down to land, making them more of a function for long distance travel, as they can't just shoot into the air and stop on a dime. But I'd wager that'd still be poorly received by the playerbase
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    All that is fun and all, Kisho, at the first time. Not at the nth time, when you already know the place like the palm of your hand (I know I do with 75% of WoW zones).

    So, what's the purpose of taking the flying mounts again?
    See, again: The current world is like this because Blizzard are taking flying mounts into account. They are designing the world knowing we will be using our flying mounts. If flying mounts didn't exist, they could design in a very different way, taking your concerns of being bored on your multiple alts into account.

    As I said in my first reply, I don't want flying mounts to be removed. It would do more harm than good, if they were just suddenly removed without anything else changed. But the game could be designed so differently and so much more interestingly if flying mounts didn't exist.

    How many other MMOs use flying mounts? You can be certain they all looked at the mistake Blizzard made, laughed at them, then went on to never implement flying mounts. Ever.

  20. #40
    Field Marshal High General Turalyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    (...)

    Very interesting points. This is basically how I feel.

    I realize the removal of flying would cause immense problems unless done right and with great care. It would require tremendous efforts, like the transition from left to right traffic. But in the end, it would save development time and make the world a much more interesting place.

    I feel as if though people have forgotten the 'world' bit in World of Warcraft, and nowadays only see the game as a platform for their raiding, socializing, or PvPing. While all of those are vital components of the game, they aren't fun in my opinion if they aren't presented through an interesting world. Flying above it doesn't let the world feel real or immersive, and not flying isn't really an option. It's like offering someone to walk from London to Oxford while the others take the bus. One COULD walk all the way there on principle alone, but it would feel stupid and infective when there was a bus.

    This is also why they removed the Nephalem's Cube or whatever it was called in Diablo 3. It allowed people to sell loot without even going into town. But in the end, they realized that the necessary evils really are necessary in order for the game to feel a bit alive and not just be a spreadsheet.

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