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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    GC: In vanillla, hybrids could only heal (except warriors)

    Statements like these really outrage me, because they make Devs look like fools. It's as if they were not playing their own game.

    In reality, I remember my guild raiding during Vanilla, with Rets as DPS, Moonkins DPS, ferals as DPS, and Shadow Priests as DPS (who were also over buffed during the final stages of Vanilla) though we had dramah every day and -mostly- druid tears about how Druids were doing soooo little DPS.

    In reality, nobody really cared because there wasn't any reliable way to measure one's DPS. As long as you had decent gear and you had everything enchanted, getting a spot in a 40 man raid was really no problem, and that -yes- includes even Retardins who were raiding as Ret with that stupid legendary weapon which I forget now and they were perfectly viable.

    I even remember days we couldn't find enough DPS to do MC or BWL, and Officers would ask if we had any friends -who knew tacts- willing to fill the Roster. Other days we raided MC with 32 people, or even 28. And there are people here -even Devs- who claim that hybrids couldn't raid as DPS in Vanilla.

    The worst part is that this skewed opinion of GC, which he retained when he became Lead Systems Designer, led to pure DPS suffering the most massive nerf storm ever in this game while hybrids such as Ret, were buffed to such a ridiculous extent, that we ended up with Rets being more than Rogues, and many people within the Paladin community even equaling Ret to whole CLASSES such as Rogue or Hunter.

    We often see people complaining about Ret's Arena, BG or Raid representation at the forums, arguing that they should be equally well represented with pure DPS classes, and that is Blizzard's fault because they spoiled Rets in particular in thinking of themselves as special and superior to the rest of us poor buggers who play pure DPS classes.
    Last edited by Sturmbringe; 2013-01-02 at 05:24 PM.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

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  2. #2
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    There is a difference in between "Noob guilds take non viable specs along for MC" and "this spec is actually viable in a serious progress raid like Naxx 40".

    The devs only said that many specs weren't viable, which is true.
    BC made them viable (some as supporter like Shadow), Wrath/Cata/MoP balanced them.

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  3. #3
    Mechagnome the9tail's Avatar
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    You sir are delusional.
    Measuring DPS was always available in Vanilla by addons.
    And nobody used hybrids except as healers, nobody and people who said they were - were being entertained by crap guilds who needed to make up numbers. Gear drops were never designed as anything else and everyone could tell thats what those classes were for.

  4. #4
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    What Ghostcrawler said was the truth, end of argument.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
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  5. #5
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Seriously?

    Everyone, EVERYONE I have spoken to that played Vanilla have told me that the only way to actually play your class was if your class had a tank or healing spec, you'd always be that spec. Only the all out DPS classes would dps.

    How the hell does this make GC look like a fool. He's completely right per usual.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Moonkins DPS, ferals as DPS, and Shadow Priests as DPS
    Just throwing this out there. Moonkin form was added in Burning Crusade.
    Enjoyed Draenor questing. If you ignore the end of Nagrand, it's almost as good as 5.0.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome the9tail's Avatar
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    Also LOL about your Ret arguement. As a player who attempted to play Ret in BC after they were added to horde - they were never taken seriously until Wrath, you probably dont have a clue about the circle jerk that seal twisting was. Blizz made mistakes in Wrath, Blizz made ALOT of mistakes in Wrath when it came to class balance and your arguement is moot.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    There is a difference in between "Noob guilds take non viable specs along for MC" and "this spec is actually viable in a serious progress raid like Naxx 40".
    Not even 1% of WoW's subscribers got to see Naxxramas 40, and you are seriously arguing here about how hybrids were not taken along in Naxx 40?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 05:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by the9tail View Post
    You sir are delusional.
    Measuring DPS was always available in Vanilla by addons.
    And nobody used hybrids except as healers, nobody and people who said they were - were being entertained by crap guilds who needed to make up numbers. Gear drops were never designed as anything else and everyone could tell thats what those classes were for.
    There was only one addon available to measure your DPS in Vanilla and it had serious issues. It was almost never accurate. Recount didn't exist yet.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

    My Rig

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Not even 1% of WoW's subscribers got to see Naxxramas 40, and you are seriously arguing here about how hybrids were not taken along in Naxx 40?
    Same argument can be made today. You'll be surprised what % of the player base raid heroic progression, does that mean classes shouldn't be balanced in PvE?

  10. #10
    GC's comments certainly ring true on my server. Infact, late into vanilla, tanks were like gold dust and dwarf priest healers were really sort after due to their fearward (on alliance of course). Rets were certainly not considered to be a viable class, due to their mana issues, but if you were dedicated and important enough in your guild, you could certainly play as one. The number of hunters on my server though! Many many hunters.

  11. #11
    What he said (Ghostcrawler) is absolute truth. Why should truth make him look like a fool?
    Ponies are for little girls, deal with it.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome the9tail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Not even 1% of WoW's subscribers got to see Naxxramas 40, and you are seriously arguing here about how hybrids were not taken along in Naxx 40?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 05:28 PM ----------



    There was only one addon available to measure your DPS in Vanilla and it had serious issues. It was almost never accurate. Recount didn't exist yet.
    1. You did, " and Shadow Priests as DPS (who were also over buffed during the final stages of Vanilla". You were obviously some noob who only did MC and BWL. Grats on your achievements in Vanilla. Obviously you didnt progress any further with your vanilla ret paladins and other hybrids.
    2. And everyone used it. Everyone - saying it was inaccurate doesnt invalidate the fact it was measured.

  13. #13
    ITT OP pretending he played vanilla.

    Moonkin form was added in TBC.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Just throwing this out there. Moonkin form was added in Burning Crusade.
    I remember very well my Hunter, who had Rank 11 in Vanilla and was wearing the Blue PvP set, being moonfired to death in WSG during Vanilla by a Moonkin, so yeah I am pretty sure that there were moonkins in Vanilla.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

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  15. #15
    I played Shadow Priest in vanilla briefly but the "Generates a High Amount of Threat" on Mindblast kinda ruined it for me.

  16. #16
    Moonkins were not in vanilla cause druids were restoration.

  17. #17
    I tanked as a Druid, even in "vanilla". Frankly, it was a lot of fun getting it to work and while I was never as good at it as a warrior my raid group was more interested in fun then efficiency.

    Here's me in Blackwing Descent when I first managed to break 20k armor.
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  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    ITT OP pretending he played vanilla.

    Moonkin form was added in TBC.


    Also:

    Link to one of our raids in Vanilla. Note HYACHA, Balance druid.

    http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7819/wownew1.jpg
    Last edited by Sturmbringe; 2013-01-02 at 05:39 PM.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

    My Rig

  19. #19
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fmr View Post
    Moonkins were not in vanilla cause druids were restoration.
    True facts. XD
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  20. #20
    Druids/paladins healed in vanilla, period :P

    Nothing really got messed with until BC, when many more specs were made viable.

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