1. #1

    Haste vs Strength

    First off my gear is 498 ilvl and I have around 18.77% Haste, so not too bad. Ive gone to sites like Mr. Robot to sim my gear and it still tells me that Haste gems are the way to go over Strength gems for 2H Frost. If this is true though then how come a lot of BIS DK's in top guilds are using Strength gems over Haste gems? I even punched a couple of them into Mr. Robot and it said that they need to switch to Haste gems. So should I switch back to Strength gems? Which is better?

  2. #2
    It depends on your gear, use simcraft to get an approximation for stat wieghts.

    If 2 Haste> 1 Str, you should gem haste.

  3. #3
    Haste isn't as good as it looks on paper because in most real encounters you're getting free resources from anti magic shell that sims don't account for, and most dks in top guilds will be gemming strength for aoe at sha of fear anyway.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    It depends on your gear, use simcraft to get an approximation for stat wieghts.

    If 2 Haste> 1 Str, you should gem haste.
    BIS 496 with a couple 502/509. Ive never used Simcraft so im not sure what stat wieghts are or the 2 Haste > 1 Strength.

  5. #5
    You should also consider running sims for a full haste gemming vs. a full strength gemming. Patchwerk and Heavy Movement.

    So far haste is at about the 2:1 ratio for me in a 490 equipped set with 2pc, but it's still only a gain of LITERALLY 39 dps on a perfect patchwerk setup, and is still a 1500 dps loss on a movement-heavy fight.

    So, until I get more gear, I've been sticking with strength.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    You should also consider running sims for a full haste gemming vs. a full strength gemming. Patchwerk and Heavy Movement.

    So far haste is at about the 2:1 ratio for me in a 490 equipped set with 2pc, but it's still only a gain of LITERALLY 39 dps on a perfect patchwerk setup, and is still a 1500 dps loss on a movement-heavy fight.

    So, until I get more gear, I've been sticking with strength.
    In order to do that do I need to stay gemmed all Haste like I am currently and run the sim. Then gem all strength and run the sim again? Or is there a setting in simcraft to change gemming? Sorry first time using.

  7. #7
    Red = Str
    Yellow = Str/Haste

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by skmage View Post
    In order to do that do I need to stay gemmed all Haste like I am currently and run the sim. Then gem all strength and run the sim again? Or is there a setting in simcraft to change gemming? Sorry first time using.
    Oh you can manually edit it.

    Import your character, then on the code readout of the import, just scroll down to your gear and change the gems/bonuses to what you want them to be, they're formatted '160Str_320Haste' for a Fierce Vermillion Onyx for an example. It's how I do my comparisons, I work out a set of gems to meet the sockets I want then add the socket as a'_60strength' or whatnot at the end of the string.

    It's pretty easy, just double check before you sim.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Sim with my gear, 50k iterations, patchwerk fight, good skill.
    Strength profile is made with my actual gems (pure str in red, str+haste in yellow and str+hit in blue sockets); Haste profile is made swapping gems (pure haste in yellow, haste+hit in blue and haste+str in red sockets).



    It's just an example, of course. You have to sim your own character but you have to take in consideration also movement and ams usage, this would change your results.

    I wouldn't take the haste way tbh, at least until 5.2.
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  10. #10
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    for 2h haste usually sims better with higher ilvl gear on patchwerk & light movement fights, very slightly... I prefer the str+XX gems, it really comes down to personal preference as the DPS difference on a patchwerk style fight is never going to be huge yet, when you add movement/downtime into the mix then STR gems might win (again, slightly).

    Don't fret too much about it. Sim it if you want to be sure or just go with what feels better to play.

    EDIT - easiest way to change the gems in your simcraft profile would likely be importing your char into askmrrobot, change the gems then click the "export to simcraft file" button on the top bar and copy that code into simc.
    Last edited by vmagik; 2013-01-21 at 12:02 PM.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    Haste isn't as good as it looks on paper because in most real encounters you're getting free resources from anti magic shell that sims don't account for, and most dks in top guilds will be gemming strength for aoe at sha of fear anyway.
    The top dks in the top guilds aren't gemming haste cause they are dual wield frost.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by valliant13 View Post
    The top dks in the top guilds aren't gemming haste cause they are dual wield frost.
    For sha of fear, sure. When you're in a top guild and progress is over you can spec whatever you feel like for the easy stuff.

    Besides, the OP asked about 2h frost. I'm assuming he managed to find some dks as 2h frost in top guilds, otherwise there wouldn't be a lot of point in mentioning that.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2013-01-21 at 12:44 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    For sha of fear, sure. When you're in a top guild and progress is over you can spec whatever you feel like for the easy stuff.

    Besides, the OP asked about 2h frost. I'm assuming he managed to find some dks as 2h frost in top guilds, otherwise there wouldn't be a lot of point in mentioning that.
    I would love to play DW, but my 1Hs consist of two Dubious Handaxes. I've had Sha on farm for 5 weeks. Some elements of bad RNG, but I sit out alot as well, because I play like shit during farm. I only play well during progression, and maybe for 1-2 repeat kills. Who knows why.

    Anyways, I play 2H because I still haven't gotten any 1Hs.

  14. #14
    Well yes, it's a little different when you get screwed by rng that badly.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    I would love to play DW, but my 1Hs consist of two Dubious Handaxes. I've had Sha on farm for 5 weeks. Some elements of bad RNG, but I sit out alot as well, because I play like shit during farm. I only play well during progression, and maybe for 1-2 repeat kills. Who knows why.

    Anyways, I play 2H because I still haven't gotten any 1Hs.
    Yes RNG is a b*tch. Altough I have no issue staying 2H cause I love it, I would still like to try DW out. We have had Sha on farm for like 6 weeks and last week we finally saw 2 1H swords drop off him but both went to a horrible (I mean horrible) Fury Warrior. I didn't get them cause "I already pull 1st/2nd DPS as 2H".
    Last edited by Sflame; 2013-01-21 at 06:51 PM.

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