Thread: <3 Ghostcrawler

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    If even one person did not heal (such as myself who tanked) then it is false. That's how absolute statements work.
    And that's why he can never win with people like you.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  2. #22
    Brewmaster Zeverin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    My respect for this man grows every day.



    The devs have the actual numbers to look at. The players have nothing more than anecdotal evidence.
    That's Blizzard trump card; their "numbers" always prove them to be right about a game design choice. Sadly, we never get to see those "numbers", or if they even exist.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    My respect for this man grows every day.



    The devs have the actual numbers to look at. The players have nothing more than anecdotal evidence.
    That doesn't make it less of an argument supported by majority approval or disproval. The guy on the forum who says the silent majority doesn't like X may not have evidence but he could also be absolutely right by chance or luck. So why is it that the developers can use the argument "overwhelming feedback" which is really just the majority (silent to us cause we don't have evidence) but players on forums can't?

  4. #24
    Banned JhanZ's Avatar
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    He's an idiot solely based around what he's done to PvP gearing issues.

    Anyone who is intelligent wouldn't be taking a giant dump on a lot of PvP players.

    inb4 I'm attacked by 10 posters because this is the GC love thread. Where's the hate one, though? I seem lost!

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeverin View Post
    That's Blizzard trump card; their "numbers" always prove them to be right about a game design choice. Sadly, we never get to see those "numbers", or if they even exist.
    Even still that isn't an argument that's particularly against majority feedback. Of course the developers use majority feedback. I don't understand why they've got their heads in the sand about this. It doesn't prove that something is bad or good by any means but it's can be used as supporting evidence in favor or against whatever particular discussion your having. The developers themselves do it ROUTINELY, it's called "overwhelming feedback". Numbers are absolutely irellevant in this case. Ghostcrawler can't say silent majority arguments suck and then use silent majority arguments.

  6. #26
    <3 Ghostcrawler, thanks for ruining WoW.

    I wouldn't be able to quit otherwise!

  7. #27
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeverin View Post
    That's Blizzard trump card; their "numbers" always prove them to be right about a game design choice. Sadly, we never get to see those "numbers", or if they even exist.
    If you don't trust them, why do you give them your money?

    Only you can decide whether you believe the numbers they base their changes on are real. The same goes for every other individual playing the game. I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't hand over my money if they hid the truth on purpose or otherwise obfuscated the truth. Misguided decisions I can deal with, for whatever reason they happen. Such mistakes get fixed with time. But outright lies I cannot.

  8. #28
    Brewmaster Zeverin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Even still that isn't an argument that's particularly against majority feedback. Of course the developers use majority feedback. I don't understand why they've got their heads in the sand about this. It doesn't prove that something is bad or good by any means but it's can be used as supporting evidence in favor or against whatever particular discussion your having. The developers themselves do it ROUTINELY, it's called "overwhelming feedback". Numbers are absolutely irellevant in this case. Ghostcrawler can't say silent majority arguments suck and then use silent majority arguments.
    Ghostcrawler is just a PR guy. I don't think he analyses personally player feedback.
    Maybe he just didn't received the memo about Blizzard's stance on player feedback and majority arguments...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    If you don't trust them, why do you give them your money?
    I like to play their game, I just choose to ignore forum PR crap.
    Last edited by Zeverin; 2013-01-05 at 11:15 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    I can tell you this. The majority of people who plays Horde are 12 year olds. Oddly, Blizzard can show\prove to you something different. Yet ALL my friends have confirmed, the majority of Horde players they know are 12 year olds.
    Odd. I'm 25, most of the Horde players that I interact with are between the ages of 20 and 45~ and it's similar for Alliance. I've seen more people acting how I'd expect a 12 year old to act in Alliance trade chat. That doesn't mean that the majority of Alliance players are 12 year olds. It doesn't even mean that Alliance has more 12 year olds than Horde. It just means that during the hours I play there are more people using trade chat that discuss things the way I'd expect a 12 year old to on Alliance side.

    What I do find amusing however is that whenever I've joined Battlegrounds as Alliance people have said that Horde always win. Whenever I've joined a battleground as Horde people discuss how Alliance always win.

  10. #30
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    That doesn't make it less of an argument supported by majority approval or disproval. The guy on the forum who says the silent majority doesn't like X may not have evidence but he could also be absolutely right by chance or luck. So why is it that the developers can use the argument "overwhelming feedback" which is really just the majority (silent to us cause we don't have evidence) but players on forums can't?
    Unlike the players, the devs have passive feedback. They can see trends in their records. One of the things they've been the most open about is the wall many players hit with the Cataclysm heroic dungeons. Such impacts would be very visible on the dungeons statistics. We, the players, dont' have those to go from.

    Yes, we may get lucky in our assumptions. But it's still just based on that; luck and assumptions. Not facts.

  11. #31
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    inb4 I'm attacked by 10 posters because this is the GC love thread. Where's the hate one, though? I seem lost!
    It was locked last night because of the arbitrary assumptions and petty disputes it fostered.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    I don't understand, the developers use majority arguments all the time, they just call it "overwhelming feedback"
    More than likely they are looking at data. The majority of players do dailies.. the majority of players don´t use the barbarshop.. etc etc. His comment was directed at the crybabies who always start by saying ´a majority of players agree with me that Pally´s need nerfs´...

    And even if they do listen to the majority of players, that doesn´t mean the majority would make a great game. Do you think the majority of players would want a 50% drop rate from raid bosses? or Bing-a-tron to hand out 5k gold?

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral Luminoth4's Avatar
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    Whilst I don't love the guy for PVP balance, (We think Ret is almost exactly where it should be. Decent mobility. Tons of utility. Some offhealing capability. Reliable Power) I do like the fact that he uses Twitter to reply to peoples questions. I asked about why Valor of the Ancients isn't account wide and he replied to that (through someone else) and yesterday I asked if Item Upgrades will be in 5.2, which he replied too as well. I think the guy is a decent person, just not amazing at balancing PVP. Also has a large amount of patience probably due to most players.
    Alliance - Shadowsong

    Horde - Tarren-Mill
    Culmination - Nulo - Amissio - Dreadnought

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    More than likely they are looking at data. The majority of players do dailies.. the majority of players don´t use the barbarshop.. etc etc. His comment was directed at the crybabies who always start by saying ´a majority of players agree with me that Pally´s need nerfs´...

    And even if they do listen to the majority of players, that doesn´t mean the majority would make a great game. Do you think the majority of players would want a 50% drop rate from raid bosses? or Bing-a-tron to hand out 5k gold?
    I don't know what the majority of players want but that isn't really the point. He can't turn around and say majority arguments are bad when he uses them all the time.

  15. #35
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Odd. I'm 25, most of the Horde players that I interact with are between the ages of 20 and 45~ and it's similar for Alliance. I've seen more people acting how I'd expect a 12 year old to act in Alliance trade chat. That doesn't mean that the majority of Alliance players are 12 year olds. It doesn't even mean that Alliance has more 12 year olds than Horde. It just means that during the hours I play there are more people using trade chat that discuss things the way I'd expect a 12 year old to on Alliance side.

    What I do find amusing however is that whenever I've joined Battlegrounds as Alliance people have said that Horde always win. Whenever I've joined a battleground as Horde people discuss how Alliance always win.
    The grass is always greener on the other side.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Unlike the players, the devs have passive feedback. They can see trends in their records. One of the things they've been the most open about is the wall many players hit with the Cataclysm heroic dungeons. Such impacts would be very visible on the dungeons statistics. We, the players, dont' have those to go from.

    Yes, we may get lucky in our assumptions. But it's still just based on that; luck and assumptions. Not facts.
    Again that isn't the point. Ghostcrawler can't turn around and say majority arguments are bad but at the same time use majority arguments to justify design decisions. "Overwhelming feedback" is a majority argument they routinely use in favor of whatever design decision they think is best. Just because players don't have ALL the data doesn't mean that Ghostcrawler has licence to be a hypocrit.

  17. #37
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    I don't know what the majority of players want but that isn't really the point. He can't turn around and say majority arguments are bad when he uses them all the time.
    To take his tweet absolutely literally: He was talking to the players providing feedback. Not himself.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    To take his tweet absolutely literally: He was talking to the players providing feedback. Not himself.
    To take his tweet literally, they don't care about majority arguments and yet they routinely use them to support their design decisions. So it's only a bad argument if some disgruntled fan uses it but the developers have lisence to use it so long as it supports their design decisions. Amazing. If majority arguments didn't matter we'd still have hard heroic dungeons.

  19. #39
    I hear that the vast majority dont use forums or twitter.

    I promise you this. You can look at the complaints and you will see they are far fewer than the amount of people who enjoy the game as it is. The only reason they pretend to listen to you and claim that you are the majority is so you will continue to buy their product. Its a business and it will always be run that way.

  20. #40
    Also has a large amount of patience probably due to most players.
    ....if you would get 25k £ per month u have to be patient ...

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