Thread: <3 Ghostcrawler

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  1. #161
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Nothing there to respect, he gets payed for it. Yes even to act the way he does...it gives a feeling that they got their shit together behind the game even if they don't.
    Please provide facts for your claims. Or people might get the impression you just want to stir the waters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  2. #162
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    There is one difference!
    Normal grass IS green.
    Your, or anyone's, opinion is discussable.

    The problem with some people is that they post utter shit ideas on the forum and than start yelling that Blizzard ignores all forum-feedback because they don't do exactly as that user wants.

    But go ahead, give me examples of great ideas that everyone supported but were ignored by Blizzard.
    My point being that you like to argue semantics and generally throw complete fallacies into your defenses in the sheer hope that no one will notice... or even scarier... maybe you actually believe them yourself.

    As far as examples go, some more minor ones would be warrior and hunter pvp balance in the cataclysm beta. Worgen models while slightly debatable was a change made off the opinions of the few that Blizzard decided to run with, it was never a big thing on the beta forums, and there wasn't a 'huge outcry for more ferocious models' as blizzard stated during the change. How about when after RIFT released with large, consistent, game changing world events and some of the player base asked if anything like that could become the normal. Blizzard hyped up scenarios as being something like that, and instead gave a mini-instanced dungeon with no need for a tank or healer.

    Honestly though that is all really piddly shit, the real thing that took multiple news sites, real life personal attacks on Blizzard employees, on top of the vast majority of the forum base going bat-shit crazy to try and prevent was the Real ID fiasco.

    My point being that Blizzard likes to do whatever they want however they want regardless of what anyone says (unless it will cause a gigantic PR shitstorm). They don't like to give any credit where it's due when they rarely take ideas from players (fun fact, the entire idea and name for healing rain for shamans came from me, don't believe me if you don't want to). And they enjoy making up and skewing numbers using their silent majority that blizzard apparently knows exactly what the voiceless want through telepathy. The topping on the giant shit cake is that people much like you seem to enjoy pretending that Blizzard is the most honest and customer friendly thing since Mother Teresa, when shit... they are a business. Not only that, they are a giant business that is no more open than some of the least PR friendly companies in the world such as Sony, but pretend to be by hiring Community managers who really can't tell anyone anything and boil down to being moderators.

    It should really say something, anything to you, when the face of Blizzard is their forum moderation team and a single condescending designer with the customer service skills of an early high school boy who refuses to post anywhere but on twitter so he never has to say anything of real content or depth.

  3. #163
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    You don't need to be an expert common sense and experience would tell you, that you can NOT talk to customers however you want whenever you want and not have their be a cost for that.
    No, ofcourse not.
    There's a limit to what he can and is allowed to do.
    The point is that you do not set that limit, his boss does.

    And what GC says on Twitter is NOT his own Business since he is channeling customers of the company directly, or have the news reports about Airline staff getting fired, for tweeting, or people losing out on jobs because of comments or things they said on FB or Twitter. It can reflect on the company, Image is important even to blizzard.
    And they are happy with the image that GC is providing.
    Can we close the thread now?

    Yes now that you have google up on your browser try using it.
    Searched again.
    Nothing that proves that people left because they didn't like the way GC acted.

    No, because its fundamental logic anybody who runs, or depends on revenue for a business KNOWS.
    It's fundamental logic because I say so!
    You're a funny guy.. Do you actually see the loophole you created for yourself?
    When I was teaching kids I already learned them that "Because!" is not a good answer, an adult should know that.

    I didn't say he had to be friendly at all, he doesn't even have to respond to them, he could actually pick the comments alone who come from constructive posters and respond.
    But he doesn't.
    Because he doesn't want to ignore it.
    And his employer apparently supports that decision.
    So where does that leave us?

    That is the standard business model, company's that are the most successful not only KNOW this, but also but they cater to it.
    Yes, doing everything that random users ask for!
    We all know how successful Rift became due to that.

    See because its very easy to point and laugh at other people and cheer their indifference, but when the shoe is on the other foot because nobody is perfect, and there is a standard set such as that, YEAH, eventually you can quickly turn from trolls to misunderstandings to making communication hostile, THAT IS NOT GOOD for Revenue, and if you need proof of that well, I don't know what the hell to tell you.
    You could show me the quarterly report for your multibillion-company?
    You could show me your degree in marketing?
    Because the guys that are allowing this behaviour DO have that company and these degrees.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    If 4 million people quit the game tomorrow because they cant stand Frost Mages being at a balanced state in PvP, I would argue that the game is now a much healthier and positive environment.
    Let's put this another way. If 4 million people quit the game tmmrw because they all feel Frost Mages are not balanced in the slightest will it not make the devs rethink what they consider balanced? I think at the very least we have to acknowledge that some MAJORITY FEEDBACK or mass movement within the game has an effect on the developers and their mindsets. Hard dungeons is another excellent example. They were changed because of majority feedback again.

  5. #165
    Herald of the Titans Mall Security's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    No, ofcourse not.
    There's a limit to what he can and is allowed to do.
    The point is that you do not set that limit, his boss does.
    Show me proof to qualify your statements now.


    And they are happy with the image that GC is providing.
    Can we close the thread now?
    No, because you haven't provided one single arguement that suggest the tone or the practice of GC and the attitudes at Blizzard don't warrent some getting fired.


    Searched again.
    Nothing that proves that people left because they didn't like the way GC acted.
    So when you can't make follow through on your arguement, you simply reframe question?


    It's fundamental logic because I say so!
    You're a funny guy.. Do you actually see the loophole you created for yourself?
    When I was teaching kids I already learned them that "Because!" is not a good answer, an adult should know that.
    It's a fundamental logic to anybody who actually depends on making revenue from the business they do. If you treat customers like shit regardless to what they do, other customers see that, and wonder how it could have or would have been better handled. Sure he might get a troll and pants them, but as others have pointed out, GC has treated very honest albeit maybe annoying possible customers with smart ass remarks and distain, which most of the time in any other situation would get just about anybody else i know fired, unless they worked in entertainment alone perhaps.


    But he doesn't.
    Because he doesn't want to ignore it.
    And his employer apparently supports that decision.
    So where does that leave us?
    Leaves us right where you started, invoking double standards and demanding solid proof of claims while not doing any of that your self by following your own idea of logic as it suits your bias.


    Yes, doing everything that random users ask for!
    We all know how successful Rift became due to that.
    I didn't say anything about Rift


    You could show me the quarterly report for your multibillion-company?
    http://theweek.com/article/index/231...ths-4-theories

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/...es-subscribers

    3. Activision Blizzard is turning off hardcore gamers by appealing to the masses
    This fall, the company will roll out its newest WoW update, "Mists of Pandaria," says Paul Tassi at Forbes, which lets gamers select a radically different kind of avatar: Giant kung-fu-fighting pandas. Such a silly, Disney-esque addition is hardly the kind of savior that would "persuade the hardcore MMO crowd that the game isn't catering too much to casuals."





    There ya go


    You could show me your degree in marketing?
    I don't need a degree in marketing, and all of the companys i mentioned that failed due to the reasons stated, they had marketing, guess what they lost money by the truck loads. Some took huge losses had to fire people and some never really recovered.


    Because the guys that are allowing this behaviour DO have that company and these degrees.

    That does NOT entitle them to the privilage of being right, nor does it mean, if Blizzard takes any more loses GC might not be fired, but it might be a lot of others that go first.
    Last edited by Mall Security; 2013-01-06 at 07:15 PM.

  6. #166
    GC is more of a PR scapegoat than a developer don't you agree?

  7. #167
    I do like being able to read snippets of design commentary from someone who's highly influential in the development of my hobby.

    Definitely like the fact I can pitch in the occasional personal reaction to my play experience back.

    Feels like a lot of people are busy approaching it as some sort of polling or socio-political peer pressure system, rather than a way to swap one-line commentary with a bloke who makes a game tho.

    I hope he keeps it up.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Korru View Post
    GC is more of a PR scapegoat than a developer don't you agree?
    To a certain degree I agree with you he does seem to take a lot of unfair blame for all the wrongs of WOW but he does seem to enjoy antagonising people. I'm not sure I would be quite so arrogant in his position after overseeing the worst period in WOW's history.

  9. #169
    He's good dev. And I like his jokes and sarcasm

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Unlike the players, the devs have passive feedback. They can see trends in their records. One of the things they've been the most open about is the wall many players hit with the Cataclysm heroic dungeons. Such impacts would be very visible on the dungeons statistics. We, the players, dont' have those to go from.

    Yes, we may get lucky in our assumptions. But it's still just based on that; luck and assumptions. Not facts.
    The also have connections to the top end players who offer up opinions all the time. They usually do not spend time on forums complaining about this or that or saying this or that is good. they speak directly to Blizzard. Anyone thinking that any trend on any forum is something any type of majority feels needs to get their heads examined. the sample, while large enough, is a biased sample not representative of the majority of the players.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 08:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    To take his tweet literally, they don't care about majority arguments and yet they routinely use them to support their design decisions. So it's only a bad argument if some disgruntled fan uses it but the developers have lisence to use it so long as it supports their design decisions. Amazing. If majority arguments didn't matter we'd still have hard heroic dungeons.
    It's not a majority argument. It is a "majority" argument they don't care about. The difference is, Blizzard has raw data that can show what the majority of players do. I have anecdotal evidence saying the majority like this because I just made it up on the spot and used the word majority to make my argument valid. That is what is is talking about.

  11. #171
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    To a certain degree I agree with you he does seem to take a lot of unfair blame for all the wrongs of WOW but he does seem to enjoy antagonising people. I'm not sure I would be quite so arrogant in his position after overseeing the worst period in WOW's history.
    People forget he also oversaw the best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  12. #172
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Show me proof to qualify your statements now.
    He still has a job.
    Proof enough?

    No, because you haven't provided one single arguement that suggest the tone or the practice of GC and the attitudes at Blizzard don't warrent some getting fired.
    The guys who pay his paycheck continue paying him, it's as simple as that.

    So when you can't make follow through on your arguement, you simply reframe question?
    Ahum? You claimed that they were losing subs because of this behaviour.
    And saying "Google!" isn't a decent argument anywhere.

    It's a fundamental logic to anybody who actually depends on making revenue from the business they do. If you treat customers like shit regardless to what they do, other customers see that, and wonder how it could have or would have been better handled. Sure he might get a troll and pants them, but as others have pointed out, GC has treated very honest albeit maybe annoying possible customers with smart ass remarks and distain, which most of the time in any other situation would get just about anybody else i know fired, unless they worked in entertainment alone perhaps.
    "It's fundamental logic" isn't a strong argument either, it's almost as bad as "Google!".

    If you treat shitty customers in a "bad" way (Yes, "bad", because the stuff he is saying is hardly offensive) that can either have a good effect or a bad effect.
    Seeing as the PR/marketing-department is allowing him to do this, that means that people who actually studied this shit think it's a good idea.
    So in that light I am not even going to bother listening to some random forum-user who thinks he knows everything about businesses.

    http://theweek.com/article/index/231...ths-4-theories

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/...es-subscribers

    3. Activision Blizzard is turning off hardcore gamers by appealing to the masses
    This fall, the company will roll out its newest WoW update, "Mists of Pandaria," says Paul Tassi at Forbes, which lets gamers select a radically different kind of avatar: Giant kung-fu-fighting pandas. Such a silly, Disney-esque addition is hardly the kind of savior that would "persuade the hardcore MMO crowd that the game isn't catering too much to casuals."


    There ya go
    There ya go, what?
    That hardly has anything to do with the subject we are discussing.
    First of all, we are talking about people leaving WoW because GC is acting sarcastic towards trolls.
    Secondly, there are three other reasons why WoW lost subs in that article.
    Third, they are above the 10 million again while the "trolling the trolls" is still continuing.

    That does NOT entitle them to the privilage of being right, nor does it mean, if Blizzard takes any more loses GC might not be fired, but it might be a lot of others that go first.
    Yes, that does give them the privilege of being right as long as they have a successful company.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    GC should be fired, a long with the majority of the developers, and if the next report shows WoW going south of 10 million subs, they might want to retire early or polish of their resumes.



    GC has a complete and utter contempt for people who have valid critics, regardless to if they express themselves the way he feels they should, and the people who support this man and his utter nonsense, are mostly imo to blame for the decline in the over all game and the performance most come to expect.



    GC isn't Howard Stern, or some Host, he is a game developer responsible for creating a product the majority want to go out and purchase or pay for download, his attitude, along with everybody at Blizzard and their STICK IT TO the people, is eactly the WRONG kind of attitude to have for ANY business. Unless he plans to turn WoW into another EVE online and to that i say GO FOR IT, you and GC will find our very quickly how much you CAN'T do now that you have disrespected and drove away those bringing the kind of revenue that even allows for Blizzard to have access to realise what they do.



    All the way around GC and Blizzard/Activision's attitudes are a big reason i completly have sworn off any prouducts with their name on it.

    U mad bro? Sounds like your class got nerfed and you cannot get over it. It is a game man. Lighten up.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 08:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by reckoner04 View Post
    What I find funny is that so many people want to see GC fired, yet they rarely even know what decisions he actually makes, which arguments he makes during internal design debates, etc.. The WoW team is huge and has more than 1 designer. GC is just the guy telling us what the COLLECTIVE thinks and why the COLLECTIVE made certain changes. Yet some nerds on the internetz think he should be fired because he destroyed their class/raiding/whatever. I respect him for being able to put up with that.

    Exactly, he manages them them not makes all the decisions.

  14. #174
    This is just my opinion, but bramling like that in twitter is unappropriate in relation to position he has in company. It's _good_ he communicates with players, but the twitter thing is just too much. Im amazed they havent told him to stop that.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Ghostcrawler =/= Warcraft. He needs to know that he is hurting a game/franchize many of us have loved for over a decade. He needs to go, not us.
    Considering He came into WoW and helped become the the biggest it had ever been, then listened to the majority and made it all hard again for the vast majority who had it rather easy for 2 years prior and watched fall some. I don't think he is hurting it. Making it more accessible to many and still difficult at the top ends is the best thing that could happen. And the start of Cata when they made a big change in difficulty and watched people leave over it is why we will never lose flying.

  16. #176
    The people who sign the checks at Blizz think GC is good enough to keep paying him. That's the long and short of it.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post







    The problem simply comes back to a lack of response on Blizzard part in an effective way which doesn't consist of sarcasim or out and out right disrespect, personally I have always noticed it, but recently others have become to realise this also.



    But the point is GC being snide and disrespectful is over the line, we are not at his whims mercy or dependent on him or the developers per say, of course ME and Others can simply GO play something else, but I like many others probably feel a bit vested and interested in what is to come.

    He is really only that way to the DBs that are trolling him or being rude themselves. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. I'm sorry, if I was in the public like him being harassed daily but idiots, for the most part, I wouldn't let them off the hook either. I work with customers daily. If I don't treat them correctly I lose business. However, I call crap when I see it and let them know. I have called customers out on the carpet when they are flat out lying to get extra services at no cost. It has cost me some customers, but the ones who stayed understand where I come from and don't try it again.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 08:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Because he ruined them, same as he is doing with WoW. he came around late 2008 and the first thing he did was TotC. He and the blind fanboys need to quit before they ruin the game.
    And another "majority" argument. :P What sources might you have that shows he or his decisions ruined Ensemble?

  18. #178
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    I'm sure the fast majority don't really care. I'm talking about those who don't usually use the forums or Twitter.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    That is right I choose to pay 15$, and to any business the bottom line is what the customer spends, you are right i am entitled to be treated respectfully and to hold certain expectations. You seem to think because Blizzard is a Billion Dollar Company they make games and do us all a favor, and that grants them special privilage. I assure you it doesn't I do have a vested interest in what i have but in, and I think it is reasonable for anybody who has put in 15$ a month to do that very thing, and when the Lead Developer decides to get smart mouthed and decides to spout off on twitter in a very disrespectful way, I think it is more than prudent for paying customers to say " Wait a minute, whether GC liked or disliked someones question" he always has the choice aswell to answer in a tactful way or simply ignore it and move on.


    Entitled brats feel they are owed something for nothing, a prudent consumer is someone who pays for something and demands to have the merchant be accountable for their product/
    Then by your rules Blizzard is doing fine and not declining. Subs go down and profits go up. Sounds like a good deal with WoW.

  20. #180
    Herald of the Titans Mall Security's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    He still has a job.
    Proof enough?
    No. recent events and the decline of over all sales do to the neglect and bad attitudes towards the player base really has come full circle as of this last year, and whether they will fire GC over it is a call they make, and it might be a symptom of the over all problem that cost them in the end.

    The guys who pay his paycheck continue paying him, it's as simple as that.
    And players pay his bosses so that they can in turn pay him.


    Ahum? You claimed that they were losing subs because of this behaviour.
    And saying "Google!" isn't a decent argument anywhere.
    No i referenced the over all attitude, you asserted that i just meant specifically and only GC, and I provided 2 links to pretty popular gaming review and technology sites. I am not going to literally do all the work because you refuse to do that yourself.


    "It's fundamental logic" isn't a strong argument either, it's almost as bad as "Google!".
    No its a basic element for debate and making an arguement which you have failed to do on both counts.

    If you treat shitty customers in a "bad" way (Yes, "bad", because the stuff he is saying is hardly offensive) that can either have a good effect or a bad effect.
    Seeing as the PR/marketing-department is allowing him to do this, that means that people who actually studied this shit think it's a good idea.
    So in that light I am not even going to bother listening to some random forum-user who thinks he knows everything about businesses.
    These statements are full of assumptions, shitty customers who in your judgement feel deserve to be treated badly. Sounds a bit like making a personal problem everybodies problem and fostering contempt and the very counter productive atmosphere many from the Development team complain about.



    There ya go, what?
    That hardly has anything to do with the subject we are discussing.
    First of all, we are talking about people leaving WoW because GC is acting sarcastic towards trolls.
    Secondly, there are three other reasons why WoW lost subs in that article.
    Third, they are above the 10 million again while the "trolling the trolls" is still continuing.


    Yes, that does give them the privilege of being right as long as they have a successful company.

    The sucess you are suggesting, has nothing to do with privilage of the company, it comes from the customers and the over all population to endure or stick through it, which in about a month if we find those 10 million subs drop to about 9 million or more again. I guessing soon nobody will have a GC to complain about along with a few others.




    And my opinion is that would be the correct course of action, but it will more than likely be to little too late. For an event long enough coming.
    Last edited by Mall Security; 2013-01-06 at 09:14 PM.

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