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  1. #1

    Are hunters doomed to play BM for PVP till the end of the expansion?

    Well, with a 1min trinket, reset by readiness, and most talents and skills favoring BM, do you think hunters will be forced to play BM till the end of MoP?

    I mean, they can make all these quality of life improvements for MM, but on one will ever seriously consider it for PVP. This is really bad, because MM is my favourite spec and I want to play it without gimping myself.

    I think the solution is to make Bestial Wrath not break CC and give all 3 specs an ability to this effect

  2. #2
    The Patient Madwolf's Avatar
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    Yea, why not. Bestial Wrath has been nerfed into the ground from what it once was, how about we just damage it even further and make it just as bad as MM currently is, that way we can all play Survival until we hate it.

  3. #3
    They have to buff MM's dmg and to give it some ability that SV and BM don't have.
    since mop Rapid Fire and Silencing shot that were unique to MM spec are baseline to the class, so they have to bring MM another ability.
    i would like to see MM back on PVE too altho most Pure dps classes have a dedicated PVP spec (frost , Sub.. ) , MM right now isn't good for both PVP and PVE.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregz21 View Post
    Well, with a 1min trinket, reset by readiness, and most talents and skills favoring BM, do you think hunters will be forced to play BM till the end of MoP?

    I mean, they can make all these quality of life improvements for MM, but on one will ever seriously consider it for PVP. This is really bad, because MM is my favourite spec and I want to play it without gimping myself.

    I think the solution is to make Bestial Wrath not break CC and give all 3 specs an ability to this effect
    Eh, you're right, MM has nothing unique atm. When somebody asked to GC how he felt about the lack of MM hunters on the top brackets he said something like "you can't expect all the specs to reach the top". So yeah, we'll be forced to play BM for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madwolf View Post
    Yea, why not. Bestial Wrath has been nerfed into the ground from what it once was,
    They just removed the god mode out of it, it's nowhere near "nerfing to the ground". It's still an amazing ability.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Are we talking strictly arenas here? Cause MM can do pretty well in 3s.

    As for RBGs, play SV, better than BM for the intended purpose anyways.

  6. #6
    I sure hope so! I just hopped on my hunter for the first time in about a year to try it out in MoP and I must say, BM is pretty damn sweet to me. I'm at 86 doing 6-7mil damage in twin peaks with 15-20 kills each game. It's a blast and I'm really looking forward to 90.


    On the other hand, in the past I did like MM a lot but with everything it had being open to anyone I don't see the need to play it. I feel AiS takes too long to cast or too long to work up to the instant but 5.2 is bringing some significant help to that department so that should help.

  7. #7
    it won't be any different than when we were forced into mm for almost 2 whole expansions

  8. #8
    bm's benefits against the other 2 speccs:
    -extra trinket on 1m cd
    -extra stun on 1m cd
    -exotic pet with another stun on 30s cd
    -because of the pet being able to do so much dmg on its own you're not as dependent on line of sight
    -high usage of magic dmg->dmg not affected by armor as much

    bm cons:
    -more dependant on the pet surviving than the other speccs
    -pet ai bugging very often
    -in high rated pvp pet is chased to death. literally.



    pro's of mm:
    -4s slow on CS & MS
    -3% heal on 9s cd
    -controllable setup of minibursts (spam ss untill aimed shot proccs and line it up with a cs+toth_procc)

    cons:
    -less burst and on a higher cd than bm
    -heavily relies on physical dmg->less dmg against heavy armored enemies
    -hardcasted aimed shot does far too low dmg


    sv pro's:
    -besides auto shot and pet it's pure magic dmg
    -good aoe dmg (quite usefull in rbgs, but not that important in arenas)
    -rooting with traps
    -extended duration of traps

    sv cons:
    -very low burst
    -dispell of BA kills it


    summary:
    bm's benefits outweight mm's benefits A LOT, while the cons of bm aren't as big as they'd need to be to balance it out with mm.
    nevertheless mm is still viable, yet a bit harder to succeed with. give it a bit more utility than a stinky slow and it'll rock again.

    sv is a bit trickier to fix. double-dmg-lnl-procc on dispell of BA? remove cd on BA? remove BA and shift its dmg and procc of lnl on sps? dunno *shrug*

  9. #9
    Warchief Viscoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    They just removed the god mode out of it, it's nowhere near "nerfing to the ground". It's still an amazing ability.
    Once upon a time, it lasted 18 sec and it gave full immunity to every CC on both hunter and pet. Increased damage, but that was when we had mana so it didn't reduce any costs (we had other talents for that.) But it gave us like 50% iirc instead of this gimped 10% crap.

    Then it got nerfed so it was down to 10sec...

    Then we got focus, talent redesigned. No longer effects hunter, pet still immune to all CC, focus cost halved, hunter gets a base 10% AP boost and then another 10% when bwrathed...

    Then it got nerfed again so we no longer get a base AP boost from it. Pet no longer immune to CC, glyph added so your pet can't die, though.

    So yes, he was correct in saying it has been nerfed since its creation quite thoroughly into the dirt. It's still powerful because it's the iconic BM thing, but it doesn't even come close to approaching what it used to be. I believe that's what he was referring to.

    Edit: My personal opinion on the subject, however, is that if MM and SV could pull out ahead in PvP BEFORE, as they have been for nearly two expansions, then claiming bwrath's 1 minute nerfed-ass "trinket" utility is the gamebreaker is clearly flawed. It wasn't a gamebreaker when it was more powerful. I think Blizzard's just dropping the ball on hunters so far this expac.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 08:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Beoren View Post
    since mop Rapid Fire and Silencing shot that were unique to MM spec are baseline to the class
    RF has always been baseline; MM got a buffed version. I haven't touched MM since I had to respec, begrudgingly, to kill Sindy and LK (because does anyone remember how bad BM was in Wrath? I still played it QQ) but pre-MoP MM just got the CD reduced to 3 min instead of 5 and when you used it you got like a focus regen buff or something.

    RF is still pretty gd useless for BM, as always, so don't worry about that bringing too much utility to us over you. Most of our shots are still instant and so all it does is help chop cobras shorter... for 10 sec every 3 minutes. >.>
    Last edited by Viscoe; 2013-02-03 at 01:49 PM.
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  10. #10
    Warchief Henkdejager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    Eh, you're right, MM has nothing unique atm. When somebody asked to GC how he felt about the lack of MM hunters on the top brackets he said something like "you can't expect all the specs to reach the top". So yeah, we'll be forced to play BM for a while. .
    aye i was the one who asked it and i was surprised seeing that as a reply.

    OT

    We are forced to play BM to be competive or either have a chance in PvP. MM has NOTHING good compared to SV/BM

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregz21 View Post
    Well, with a 1min trinket, reset by readiness, and most talents and skills favoring BM, do you think hunters will be forced to play BM till the end of MoP?

    I mean, they can make all these quality of life improvements for MM, but on one will ever seriously consider it for PVP. This is really bad, because MM is my favourite spec and I want to play it without gimping myself.

    I think the solution is to make Bestial Wrath not break CC and give all 3 specs an ability to this effect
    i "hope" yes,hope for some improvements on every spec,but hunters were doomed to play mm all wtlk and cata ,pvp/pve,so if bm is the way ok,but feel a bit underpowered now,with no sense bw nerf

  12. #12
    Thing is, Im currently playing MM on my alt, now admittedly this is just my alt for fun, not like my rogue main, but Im still having TONS of fun as MM, and im kicking a fair amount of ass with it too!

  13. #13
    I play MM and do fine with it. I understand/agree it's they shittiest spec and it basically offers nothing except an extra snare but I still prefer it over braindead BM and no burst, DoT spec Survival.
    "Druid must be boss, Hunter is just Drain-monkey.

    Hunter scatter this rogue.
    Hunter drain that priest.
    Hunter where is frost trap. Bad Hunter! No banana!
    Hunter where is flare? No flare, you get replaced by retarded warrior!"

    -Huainy

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaim View Post
    bm's benefits against the other 2 speccs:
    -high usage of magic dmg->dmg not affected by armor as much
    Actually, BM hunters do low magic dmg: only cobra shot, arcane shot and serpent sting - not taking into consideration pet special attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viscoe View Post
    Once upon a time, it lasted 18 sec and it gave full immunity to every CC on both hunter and pet. Increased damage, but that was when we had mana so it didn't reduce any costs (we had other talents for that.) But it gave us like 50% iirc instead of this gimped 10% crap.
    Well if you compare it to the TBC version he's right, I assumed we were talking of MoP, my bad. Iirc in TBC it had 2 mins cd btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henkdejager View Post
    aye i was the one who asked it and i was surprised seeing that as a reply.
    I was one of those who replied to that tweet. I try to ask him what makes MM unique to his eyes but he never replied.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    Actually, BM hunters do low magic dmg: only cobra shot, arcane shot and serpent sting - not taking into consideration pet special attacks.
    do you want to search for your error yourself or should i help you with your brain-lag?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaim View Post
    do you want to search for your error yourself or should i help you with your brain-lag?
    Do help. As BM, your main nuke is Kill Command which is physical. You should be using Blink Strike, which is physical (as are AMoC and Lynx Rush anyway). Your main source of damage is your pet, which does physical damage - unless you're using some Wind Serpent or Core Hound, then some is magical. Auto-shots are of course physical.

    So in the end, as said, you're left with Arcane Shots, Cobra Shots and Serpent Sting, which is definitely the minority of your damage as BM. And you don't really spam cobras in PvP.

    Not being sarcastic, what did I miss?

    On the other hand, MM's main source of damage is Chimera Shot, which does magical dmg. You still do more physical attacks due to Aimed Shots (lol), auto and steadies, but overall it might even be that MM does more magical dmg than BM. I cba to check the actual numbers atm, could be wrong. Just saying.
    Last edited by spiattalo; 2013-02-04 at 12:29 AM.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal fisayoolat's Avatar
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    I personally think, mm needs an extra trinket like bm, which should be baked into another skill of mm. This will solve mms problems. Bm does not need to be nerfed . This will bring some balance to the two specs... There will be a huge shift to mm from bm if this takes place regardless of anything else. But it will be so much better if it gets a burst aswell , myb in the sence of increasing aimed shot and chimera damage. That will make it so much more than competitive
    Last edited by fisayoolat; 2013-02-04 at 02:15 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by fisayoolat View Post
    I personally think, mm needs an extra trinket like bm, which should be baked into another skill of mm. This will solve mms problems. Bm does not need to be nerfed . This will bring some balance to the two specs... There will be a huge shift to mm from bm if this takes place regardless of anything else. But it will be so much better if it gets a burst aswell , myb in the sence of increasing aimed shot and chimera damage. That will make it so much more than competitive
    How will you balance Surv then?
    We can't just give all hunter specs a get out of jail free card.

  19. #19
    Well... you can shoot aimed shot while camouflaged...? >>

  20. #20
    Until they buff the damage of the other two specs in PvP (probably just in general too) then yes we will be forced to play BM. I'm not sure what master plan that Blizz has cooked up for MM for the future, but one spec being totally shit for BOTH aspects of the game to me is a little dumb. Aside from having an aversion to BM and/or survival spec, no decent pvper is going to spec any other spec besides BM. I guess this is a "to be continued..." sort of scenario.

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