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  1. #301
    Pit Lord Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alucardtnuoc View Post
    Their is going to be nothing stopping them from going straight into the new raid in 5.2 and soloing things that a full 10 man raid can't do.
    All they need to do is to fix the lvl check for MoP content instance portals so that lower lvls can't enter even after a 90 did. There's no need to fix cataclysm raid portals though, as that's old content.

  2. #302
    High Overlord Aelo's Avatar
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    Vengeance is now capped at max HP (tested this on an EU realm).

    Edit: And a response about the 409 items: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...86044846915586
    Last edited by Aelo; 2013-01-08 at 05:25 AM.
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  3. #303
    Bloodsail Admiral Splosion's Avatar
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    It's fixed, vengeance caps at Max HP. Expect a better fix later. Whee!

  4. #304
    the ammount of stupid ppl in this thread makes me sad.

    This is a bug, no matter what you say or do will change it, and we want it fixed. Dont call me jelly or hater or what ever. I got a 80 paladin my self and can do this, I haven't as i think its wrong.

    Edit: yey for fix
    Last edited by LuxyEU; 2013-01-08 at 05:04 AM.
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I ask this question again and to everyone else QQing about this:

    What does this have anything to do with your personal enjoyment of the game? How does this affect you in ANY way? Simple answer: it does nothing to affect you, other than make you jealous.

    Same goes for everyone else "upset" about this feature.
    I have a 80 paladin myself I've been soloing on, which I happen to play a lot. It sure does affect me.
    Casual and lazy 3x multiboxer, gold maker and altoholic.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxyEU View Post
    the ammount of stupid ppl in this thread makes me sad.

    This is a bug, no matter what you say or do will change it, and we want it fixed. Dont call me jelly or hater or what ever. I got a 80 paladin my self and can do this, I haven't as i think its wrong.

    Edit: yey for fix
    I bet you were one of those students who always squealed on the other students, informing the teachers about every prank your classmates did.

    People don't like that, you know?

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Splosion View Post
    It's fixed, vengeance caps at Max HP. Expect a better fix later. Whee!
    Well done for fucking things up for lvl 90's, hope you are proud of yourself. You and the other guy have completely ruined the game for some players, and for what? This weird power trip that you had to be the one that got it fixed? Really?

    Oh well, guess I'll just use my weekly LK 25 hc save to ninja the mount if it ever drops. I'll just send them to your Youtube account if they want to vent their rage <3
    Last edited by quikbunny; 2013-01-08 at 08:30 AM.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan View Post
    I bet you were one of those students who always squealed on the other students, informing the teachers about every prank your classmates did.

    People don't like that, you know?
    i was the one doing all the pranks :|
    - Thanks Axalicious for this awesome sig.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Well done for fucking things up for lvl 90's,
    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    What?
    I have a relatively low health pool for a 90 tank, ~520k HP. I can honestly say I've never gotten my vengeance that high legitimately, and of the few times I have, most were with decimation blade (I.E. I was doing baleroc and thus had extra HP).

    This changes nothing for 90s. Only possible exception I can imagine is maybe 25H empress p2, but even then I don't believe tanks actually get THAT much vengeance.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    What?
    I have a relatively low health pool for a 90 tank, ~520k HP. I can honestly say I've never gotten my vengeance that high legitimately, and of the few times I have, most were with decimation blade (I.E. I was doing baleroc and thus had extra HP).

    This changes nothing for 90s. Only possible exception I can imagine is maybe 25H empress p2, but even then I don't believe tanks actually get THAT much vengeance.
    As a Brewmaster tanking the 6 small adds on Grand Empress Heroic, I've had over 1 million vengence. In raid, I have around 560k HP.

    I've never really policed my vengence on Windlord, but I'm sure that I have had over 500k for that fight.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Satiel View Post
    As a Brewmaster tanking the 6 small adds on Grand Empress Heroic, I've had over 1 million vengence. In raid, I have around 560k HP.

    I've never really policed my vengence on Windlord, but I'm sure that I have had over 500k for that fight.
    This "fix' Is going to bite blizzard in the ass.

    Simple fix: Put a level req on the raids and make the gear level 90 or like 88+ or just outright delete the gear from the game they have done that before. the vengence setup dose not work unless the player has the twink MOP gear so just change it or remove it.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Satiel View Post
    As a Brewmaster tanking the 6 small adds on Grand Empress Heroic, I've had over 1 million vengence. In raid, I have around 560k HP.

    I've never really policed my vengence on Windlord, but I'm sure that I have had over 500k for that fight.
    Bleh, that's bad news then (admittedly, I'd only checked 1 log for empress. Was only seeing ~800k Shield barriers or ~400k vengeance, but likely that just means low rage barriers).

    Worse still because not all tanks are created equal in terms of health.

    (Although at some point, the amount of vengeance people can get just gets to the point of "how are you taking that much damage and living", but I still do agree it's an annoying bandaid fix)

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Well done for fucking things up for lvl 90's, hope you are proud of yourself. You and the other guy have completely ruined the game for some players, and for what? This weird power trip that you had to be the one that got it fixed? Really?
    That's basically it.

  14. #314
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    Vengeance was working as they intended it to work, they just never expected a level 80 to survive a hit from a level 93 boss.

    You (were) seeing this bug because of the server lag or some other bug involved with incorrect ordering which allowed the sacred shield to be calculated as if the damage was taken before the damage is actually taken, and thus absorbs the hit it was itself calculated on.

    Capping vengeance at max HP is a mistake. The design was sound at end-game, tank DPS is an important thing in progression raiding, especially in finding that balance between mitigation and DPS. This will effectively nerf warrior damage, but more importantly nerf pally/bear self-healing, which is an important part of their mitigation. They should have just band aid fixed it with a level restriction on the raid, but apparently that must be tied to the raid grouping requirement or something equally absurd.

    To be clear, I have no problem with 80s soloing old content. I think the soloing of current max-level content, even when T14 becomes obsolete and we're raiding T15, is a bad thing.

  15. #315
    Herald of the Titans T Man's Avatar
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    Funny how Ownedcore are fighting over if its a bug or exploit, good reading.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Vengeance was working as they intended it to work, they just never expected a level 80 to survive a hit from a level 93 boss.

    You (were) seeing this bug because of the server lag or some other bug involved with incorrect ordering which allowed the sacred shield to be calculated as if the damage was taken before the damage is actually taken, and thus absorbs the hit it was itself calculated on.

    Capping vengeance at max HP is a mistake. The design was sound at end-game, tank DPS is an important thing in progression raiding, especially in finding that balance between mitigation and DPS. This will effectively nerf warrior damage, but more importantly nerf pally/bear self-healing, which is an important part of their mitigation. They should have just band aid fixed it with a level restriction on the raid, but apparently that must be tied to the raid grouping requirement or something equally absurd.

    To be clear, I have no problem with 80s soloing old content. I think the soloing of current max-level content, even when T14 becomes obsolete and we're raiding T15, is a bad thing.
    New boss ability for all fights:
    Code:
    If player character level is less than x (replace as necessary) then instantly kill player character.
    
    x= 70 for TBC raid instances, 80 for WotLK raid instances, 85 for Cataclysm raids and 90 for MoP raids.
    There. If a non-intended player engages a boss fight, it kills them. Done. No need to fuck around with max-level balance, no need to rebuild the instance transfer mechanic. Uses the InstantKill mechanic to avoid people circumventing it with damage reduction or immunity effects.
    Last edited by Butler Log; 2013-01-08 at 10:52 AM.
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    Former author of the TankSpot.com Protection Paladin guide

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    New boss ability for all fights:
    Code:
    If player character level is less than x (replace as necessary) then instantly kill player character.
    
    x= 70 for TBC raid instances, 80 for WotLK raid instances, 85 for Cataclysm raids and 90 for MoP raids.
    There. If a non-intended player engages a boss fight, it kills them. Done. No need to fuck around with max-level balance, no need to rebuild the instance transfer mechanic. Uses the InstantKill mechanic to avoid people circumventing it with damage reduction or immunity effects.
    I'm sure people would still find ways around that since the death mechanic is server side. A better solution would obviously be to block off those instances completely.

    And yeah, the vengeance 'fix' is definitely going to break level 90 to some extent.
    Vereesa of Paragon, formerly of Depraved
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  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Vengeance was working as they intended it to work, they just never expected a level 80 to survive a hit from a level 93 boss.
    Bosses are +3 levels from YOUR level so if you're fighting a MoP boss as level 80 they are in fact only level 83. (In terms of combat table scaling)

  19. #319
    High Overlord
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    For me it is a bug. It's using some kind of server lag when using shield of the righteous. You get hit, in the same time you use shield and (at lowlevel with stacked mastery) you get like 95-99% physical reduction. Server thinks "shit, he got 80k hit on 99% reduction! that was a hit for zyllion!" bwam 10M vengeance.

    Whole game of that pala ends up on that bar with white bars moving right to left. I expect them to be melee swings incoming. Nice addon.
    "White bar incoming in 3 pixels! press '1'!"
    You call that any kind of achievement? Or being pro maybe?

    I wouldn't ban them for using it, as long as it doesnt affect world of ppl with guts to level up to max and compete with millions of others in race to be first.
    Just take back the achievements and mounts (no matter if they got them from bugging it or on lvl90 char), fix it and /wave for goodbye.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    Bosses are +3 levels from YOUR level so if you're fighting a MoP boss as level 80 they are in fact only level 83. (In terms of combat table scaling)
    But the raw damage does not scale according to your level. Those ~500k unmitigated hits you get from a 25 man boss are still 500k unmitigated damage against a lower level player. The bug users/exploiters (I call people that use a bug once a bug user, systematic exploitation of the bug makes you an exploiter) abused a short-coming in the vengeance calculation (which works off unmitigated damage).

    They could always leave the Max-HP cap in for level 85 or lower characters, and remove it for players level 86 or higher.

    In the interests of fairness, I would have all achievments and items removed from offenders that were obtained using this exploit.
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 16GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Crucial M550 256GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Black 2000GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Former author of the TankSpot.com Protection Paladin guide

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