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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Vengeance was working as they intended it to work, they just never expected a level 80 to survive a hit from a level 93 boss.
    Bosses are +3 levels from YOUR level so if you're fighting a MoP boss as level 80 they are in fact only level 83. (In terms of combat table scaling)

  2. #322
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    For me it is a bug. It's using some kind of server lag when using shield of the righteous. You get hit, in the same time you use shield and (at lowlevel with stacked mastery) you get like 95-99% physical reduction. Server thinks "shit, he got 80k hit on 99% reduction! that was a hit for zyllion!" bwam 10M vengeance.

    Whole game of that pala ends up on that bar with white bars moving right to left. I expect them to be melee swings incoming. Nice addon.
    "White bar incoming in 3 pixels! press '1'!"
    You call that any kind of achievement? Or being pro maybe?

    I wouldn't ban them for using it, as long as it doesnt affect world of ppl with guts to level up to max and compete with millions of others in race to be first.
    Just take back the achievements and mounts (no matter if they got them from bugging it or on lvl90 char), fix it and /wave for goodbye.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    Bosses are +3 levels from YOUR level so if you're fighting a MoP boss as level 80 they are in fact only level 83. (In terms of combat table scaling)
    But the raw damage does not scale according to your level. Those ~500k unmitigated hits you get from a 25 man boss are still 500k unmitigated damage against a lower level player. The bug users/exploiters (I call people that use a bug once a bug user, systematic exploitation of the bug makes you an exploiter) abused a short-coming in the vengeance calculation (which works off unmitigated damage).

    They could always leave the Max-HP cap in for level 85 or lower characters, and remove it for players level 86 or higher.

    In the interests of fairness, I would have all achievments and items removed from offenders that were obtained using this exploit.
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Crucial M550 256GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Black 2000GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Michalus View Post
    Whole game of that pala ends up on that bar with white bars moving right to left. I expect them to be melee swings incoming. Nice addon.
    "White bar incoming in 3 pixels! press '1'!"
    You call that any kind of achievement? Or being pro maybe?
    It's actually the red bars you want to look for. You need to press SotR exactly when it comes into the red area to get more vengeance. Because of the latency. The more latency you have the bigger the red area becomes. It's kind of a hard task to get it perfectly, since you need to get it in there in less than ½ a second. Then it also, as said, depends on your latency.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    The fix is fine for the time being, it's a quick band-aid to prevent more shenanigans and not a long-term fix. There is only one situation where you can legitimately get more than your max HP as Vengeance anyway (Empress p2), and it barely affects that situation.
    What about Windlord when tanking the adds?
    But ye, it's rare that you'd ever get over 500-600k vengeance (that's the HP lvs on regular tanks now, isn't it?), I always felt that letting vengeance to stack without a cap will bring problems and ridicullus situations, what's more reducing possible boss mechanics (no Chimaeron like fight, due to how vengeance can be cheesed).. It's a band-aid that should be there from the very beginning of this mechanic IMHO...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    A more clean fix will have to happen in the future to prevent the bug itself and not just its most absurd consequences. hopefully in 5.2 if they can work on it quickly.
    I still try to think how it could be "fixed", and what really needs fixing.. To me the very idea behind how vengeance works is flawed and will always bring trouble (though as a tank I love it and currently we do need it). I think they need to really change vengeance, just preventing lv 80s from entering instances (like some here proposed), or taking away ilv 400 gear from them (who even thought that'd be a good idea anyway? o_O) is not fixing the problem, just fixing consequences of a problem.. We need to treat the illness, not just the symptoms (and I'm not sure what that illness really is..)

    Also I'm sad that it had to go to such ridicullus situation as lv 80 soloing Stone Guards or even Elegon for Blizz to notice that there is a problem. Something many of us were saying during the beta >.<'
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Well done for fucking things up for lvl 90's, hope you are proud of yourself. You and the other guy have completely ruined the game for some players, and for what? This weird power trip that you had to be the one that got it fixed? Really?

    Oh well, guess I'll just use my weekly LK 25 hc save to ninja the mount if it ever drops. I'll just send them to your Youtube account if they want to vent their rage <3
    So you get 600K+ vengeance a lot? Surely you can see this is temporary. If anything, you can still force higher stacks, no different than before (except they can't go above your hp pool, which involves you taking vengeance*50 damage every ~5 seconds. Assume a tank has 600k hp, 600k*50 less around 60ish percent for tank reductions, ends up being still around 12 million damage every 5.)

    Still could use a better fix, if it's even possible. But hey, get mad at me if you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    Bosses are +3 levels from YOUR level so if you're fighting a MoP boss as level 80 they are in fact only level 83. (In terms of combat table scaling)
    Not true. You might still need required hit and expertise to hit bosses lower content than you (90s in molten core), but you definitely need more hit/expertise/avoidance to hit bosses higher level than you. Level+3 is 1092% avoidance, 7.5% hit, 7.5% expertise (ignoring parry for now), +8 levels (80s vs 88s) is around 20% hit/expertise, 124% avoidance, and 70% caster hit (assumed numbers for melee, probably higher), +13 is 139% avoidance, and I'd guess nearly 40% hit/expertise, and some obscene level of spell hit for casters. Not done any tests on this part)



    Quote Originally Posted by Ozziee View Post
    It's actually the red bars you want to look for. You need to press SotR exactly when it comes into the red area to get more vengeance. Because of the latency. The more latency you have the bigger the red area becomes. It's kind of a hard task to get it perfectly, since you need to get it in there in less than ½ a second. Then it also, as said, depends on your latency.
    Red bars are your current target, white are targets not attacking you, and yellow is your focus. Red bar on the left is latency, but it doesn't seem to completely be effective (chances are it was all parry RNG, but whatever). Dual wielding mobs make it go all funky.

  7. #327
    On the plus side, this is amazing for vengeance trackers - Finally a maximum we can use to track with a progress bar instead of a number.

  8. #328
    I would have PvP'd doing so myself.

    Edit: I don't have the slightest clue if stats work the same in PvP so forgive me for being an idiot if it ain't.

  9. #329
    BTW, eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ravencrest/Faruz/achievement#92:a6193
    bullfake...

    Edit: omg, my bad. Ty, Shaoshi
    Last edited by mavr; 2013-01-08 at 12:40 PM.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by mavr View Post
    BTW, eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ravencrest/Faruz/achievement#92:a6193
    bullfake...
    That's a shared achievement

  11. #331
    Faruz has around 50% haste so it makes sense why the sacred shield absorbs acted the way they did. This paladins raw stats are just amazing all around. Seems a lot of people are angry about the kills in this thread but I rather enjoyed seeing elegon die to a level 80.

  12. #332
    Well i guess that will make my weekly LK25HC solo take quite a lot of more time.
    I didn't bother with BIS for my twink, so she's 97k Hp / 132k in ICC...
    Assuming 120k vengeance soloing will still be possible with near 100% damage reduction thats up nearly always.
    (and 120k veng sacred shield giving enough of a puffer still)
    Orbs in phase 2 will be annoying though given the capped vengeance when they won't just die to a consecration tick.

  13. #333
    meh just made i to lk 25 hc yesterday on my twink soloing the other 11 bosses gave him a few trys but was to sleepy so sopped, woke up today to go and finish and cat get vengence over 112k ;/ oh well 50k gold on gear wastet for nothing - but ye i knew it would be fixed so not to mad

  14. #334
    This is fucking ridicolous. Because some stupid people choose to exploit a bug, the real tanks who do current content are screwed over. Yes on windlord hc and empress hc phase 2 you do geto 1 mln vengeance. Stupid community and stupid blizzard making stupid band-aid.

  15. #335
    Bloodsail Admiral Splosion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Envar View Post
    Well i guess that will make my weekly LK25HC solo take quite a lot of more time.
    I didn't bother with BIS for my twink, so she's 97k Hp / 132k in ICC...
    Assuming 120k vengeance soloing will still be possible with near 100% damage reduction thats up nearly always.
    (and 120k veng sacred shield giving enough of a puffer still)
    Orbs in phase 2 will be annoying though given the capped vengeance when they won't just die to a consecration tick.
    Have fun dealing with the silence from the raging spirits (which I'd imagine, you've not even noticed)

    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    This is fucking ridicolous. Because some stupid people choose to exploit a bug, the real tanks who do current content are screwed over. Yes on windlord hc and empress hc phase 2 you do geto 1 mln vengeance. Stupid community and stupid blizzard making stupid band-aid.
    There there. This was only a temporary fix. Expect a better one for 5.2, or at least I'd hope they managed to. I'm under the impression that wind lord even on heroic is a bit of a push over when tanks can abuse vengeance that high?

  16. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    This is fucking ridicolous. Because some stupid people choose to exploit a bug, the real tanks who do current content are screwed over. Yes on windlord hc and empress hc phase 2 you do geto 1 mln vengeance. Stupid community and stupid blizzard making stupid band-aid.
    What is ridiculous is that Vengeance is horribly overpowered even at 90. The DPS tanks dish out is not really acceptable at all. They should never do more than 50% of the top ranked dps, that's the way it was during WotLK.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelo View Post
    Vengeance is now capped at max HP (tested this on an EU realm).

    Edit: And a response about the 409 items: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...86044846915586
    I moved my old 80 paladin back from my old french server to my current server to enjoy solo twink pve (80 and under, i cba about Cata or MoP). I guess I won't get a refund if they remove my gear?

    Make them GFed but I hope they leave them as they are on toons who got it. 84s get full MoP gear too. And they won't fix? Scaling is good there too.

    I wish they could fix resilience scaling at 70 instead of wasting time and energy on 80s

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Splosion View Post
    You really have to define what a bug and what an exploit both actually are. A bug usually means a game mechanic that is doing something unintended, which is what we're seeing with the levels of vengeance. An exploit is using that bug for personal gain, or just using it in general, which is what we're seeing here.

    Vengeance is supposed to be 2% of unmitigated damage taken. Say a boss hits a tank with around 80% from armour + passives for 10k. This means a 50k unmitigated hit, which translates to 1k vengeance. Say that same boss gives me 1 million vengeance because I'm using this bug, would you call that clever use of game mechanics? I know I wouldn't.

    So yes, it IS an exploit.
    it's an exploit because normal gameplay doesn't expose it
    it's a bug because blizz fucked up some code

    this idea that exploits aren't bugs is ridiculous.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    it's an exploit because normal gameplay doesn't expose it
    it's a bug because blizz fucked up some code

    this idea that exploits aren't bugs is ridiculous.
    by that logic soloing raids is a exploit because you should have to group to do raids.

  20. #340
    Bloodsail Admiral Splosion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dota2please View Post
    by that logic soloing raids is a exploit because you should have to group to do raids.
    No, if you inferred that from what he said, I'd rethink what you call logic.

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