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  1. #1

    Prison - Is it working?

    My idea of prison is that it should be so unthinkable to commit a crime that the prospect itself should be enough to dissuade most would be criminals.

    Possession of an illegal firearm? Throw them in a cell on bread, water and vitamin and supplement pills. Hour of exercise a day and no correspondence.
    Paedophile? See above. Life. No chance at parole.
    Murder? See above.

    Even if the conditions weren't as harsh, the sentences should be longer.

    Criminals shouldn't be getting easier rides because we don't have a place to house them.

    Here's a case that for example deserves life in the above conditions.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-19090706

    The jailed leader of a Rochdale sex ring has received a further term of 22 years for 30 child rape charges.

    Shabir Ahmed, 59, of Oldham, was one of nine men convicted of sex offences against children at Liverpool Crown Court in May.

    He was not named at the time because he faced further charges, but was jailed for 19 years.


    41 years, yes he will die in prison but it should still be a life sentence. Convicting with anything less than life is an insult. At what stage would they consider a man like that is capable of rehabilitation?

    Can't help but think that the legal system really does favour the criminal.

    There's then also the case of no matter how rehabilitated a criminal may be, will they ever be fully accepted again in society? I wouldn't want a criminal working for me, I sure as hell wouldn't hire one when there is a queue at the door probably better qualified without a record. So what then? Probably end up going back to old habits because they feel like they have no other choice, in some cases, that probably is the reality.

    The reason I wanted other peoples opinions is because it got me thinking. Things are, yet again, kicking off in Belfast. People are attacking police officers doing their job... And for what?

    I've known my fair share of shady people and I have to say it's a shame they didn't use their brains in a legitimate environment, because some of them were extremely intelligent.

    And lol, this post is really incoherent and is structured extremely badly, but yeah, saw the news and thought I'd ask while it was fresh.

    What are your views on prison? Do you think they should focus more on punishment than rehabilitation? Other way around? Harsher sentencing? etc

  2. #2
    Pit Lord breadisfunny's Avatar
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    my idea of prison concerning murder in the first degree would be the death penalty.

  3. #3
    What about entrapment, false accusations, mistakes?

  4. #4
    Pit Lord breadisfunny's Avatar
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    if a person post death was found to have been wrongfully convicted:monetary compensation for the families and the firing of any and all officials involved in the investigation.said officials would also be forbidden from ever working in the justice system again. it would encourage officials to do their job correctly. or where you asking the op?

  5. #5
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    Would really just create violent super criminals

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    if a person post death was found to have been wrongfully convicted:monetary compensation for the families and the firing of any and all officials involved in the investigation.said officials would also be forbidden from ever working in the justice system again. it would encourage officials to do their job correctly. or where you asking the op?
    In general.

    What about someone who spend 10 years on a improper conviction, or someone who was entrapped or setup by police wanting to make a case.

  7. #7
    Criminal law requires proof beyond all reasonable doubt. Sure there is always a chance a person will be wrongfully convicted, but that is and has been an issue with the courts for a long time.

    Not saying it's right, but that's a different conversation entirely.

  8. #8
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    if a person post death was found to have been wrongfully convicted:monetary compensation for the families and the firing of any and all officials involved in the investigation.said officials would also be forbidden from ever working in the justice system again. it would encourage officials to do their job correctly. or where you asking the op?
    That would just make it impossible to get cases reopened because they would protect their job.

  9. #9
    The Insane Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Prisons are way too soft on criminals. Needs to be more like the Russian gulags of old.
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    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    That would just make it impossible to get cases reopened because they would protect their job.
    the group responsible for reopening cases would have to be completely independent of the main investigative body of course.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Grym's Avatar
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    Just bring capital punishment back and be done with it.

    Some people said killing them off is more expensive than keeping them alive, not true, look at China, line them all up, BAM BAM BAM BAM, all dead, then all get thrown into this big hole, done, killing 9 criminals will cost 9 bullets.

  12. #12
    Pit Lord breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    Just bring capital punishment back and be done with it.

    Some people said killing them off is more expensive than keeping them alive, not true, look at China, line them all up, BAM BAM BAM BAM, all dead, then all get thrown into this big hole, done, killing 9 criminals will cost 9 bullets.
    the us has it. but only some states actively execute criminals and even then theres a decent chance it gets commuted on appeal.

  13. #13
    Moderator Anakso's Avatar
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    The problem is, this wouldn't really deter that much more crime than the current prison system does. People don't commit crimes with the thought of the consequences in mind, they do it thinking they'll never be caught, or some (Crimes of passion or crimes of opportunity) probably don't even think of the consequences at all before committing the crime.

    The best way to deter crime is to improve how many criminals we catch really. If people can't get away with a crime, less people will think they can. I do prefer the prison system you described, though personally I'd add the death penalty in there.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    Just bring capital punishment back and be done with it.

    Some people said killing them off is more expensive than keeping them alive, not true, look at China, line them all up, BAM BAM BAM BAM, all dead, then all get thrown into this big hole, done, killing 9 criminals will cost 9 bullets.

    This. Lethal injection is expensive as fuck, we should just shoot them. Supposedly we can't because it's "cruel and unusual punishment," but in the end of the day, your killing a person, theirs no civilized way to do it, just go for the cheapest method.

    Besides, when you commit crimes that would warrant this sort of punishment, your infringement on others rights should forfeit your own.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dercaderca View Post
    This. Lethal injection is expensive as fuck, we should just shoot them. Supposedly we can't because it's "cruel and unusual punishment," but in the end of the day, your killing a person, theirs no civilized way to do it, just go for the cheapest method.

    Besides, when you commit crimes that would warrant this sort of punishment, your infringement on others rights should forfeit your own.
    What if they did not commit the crime but got falsely accused?
    If one man is strip of his rights then all other are , the impact this would have on the juristical systems is outstanding.
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  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans JfmC's Avatar
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    The idea of prison is to integrate criminals back into society (not talking about phedophiles/massmurderers here)
    And its failing really hard.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    if a person post death was found to have been wrongfully convicted:monetary compensation for the families and the firing of any and all officials involved in the investigation.said officials would also be forbidden from ever working in the justice system again. it would encourage officials to do their job correctly. or where you asking the op?
    When you are convicted it is because current evidence points to you. Why should officials be punished for using the evidence that they had at that time?
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    The idea of prison is to integrate criminals back into society (not talking about phedophiles/massmurderers here)
    And its failing really hard.
    How do you know that? surely prison are not the most amazing thing in the world but they do work in many cases.
    Everybody seem to be negative about everything these days.
    My main language is not english , feel free to send me a PM if i made errors that bother you , i shall try to correct it next time!

  19. #19
    Moderator Anakso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    The idea of prison is to integrate criminals back into society (not talking about phedophiles/massmurderers here)
    And its failing really hard.
    I'd also classify it as a way to deter crime from ever happening. That it's actually succeeding at for the most part. I mean I'm sure there'd be a but load more crime if there was no prisons/punishment.

  20. #20
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    It's not working as well as it should. The rates of people who return to prison after being set free is saddening, and the fact that you have people imprisoned for softer crimes (such as marijuana use and white collar crime) associated with truly violent individuals has been shown to have some effect on carrying over aspects of criminal behavior.

    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

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