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  1. #1

    GC on Dark Intent/GoS in 5.2

    would you guys consider baking the stamina buff into Dark Intent? It sucks to have to pull a bad pet just to buff the raid.
    Do you mean you use another pet or you just always Sac them all? Neither is an ideal design. (Source)

    New Blood Fear is awful, no one in their right mind will take it. And seriously why nerf destro dps? It's already crap
    BF competes with def talents and needs to be defensive. Sac competes with other demon talents and can't be the only choice. (Source)

    Did you miss the fact that most warlocks don't use pets, and those that do don't use Imps?!
    Warlocks are supposed to use pets and all pets are supposed to be viable. That's the problem, not Blood Pact.
    I've never made a forum post whining about GC before, but his train of thought seems completely mindless.

    how can he on one hand say 'you don't get a buff baked into DI because you already have stamina' then say 'all pets are supposed to be viable'. the other pets aren't like hunter pets, they provide no raidbuff. if you make them all equal the imp is clearly the only viable pet since it attacks at range with no downtime and gives the raid stamina. if they want to make all pets raid viable then the (perfectly polite and logical) suggestion to bake stamina into Dark Intent would be necessary to stop the Imp being the preferred pet. just a shame he ignored it/shit on it.

    also: no response to the impact of Sac nerf on Destro. it seems incredibly counter productive to spend so much time and effort developing this green fire quest-chain that basically benefits the Warlock spec no-one is playing at the moment (I know there's a camp that says 'Simcraft isn't right Destro is great' yadda yadda but the fact is that in terms of highest potential damage based on the highest ranking parses Destro isn't as good as affliction) and then make a change that actually nerfs that spec. surely the smart move would be to nerf MG for Affliction so not to damage the spec further in PvP, then to buff pets rather than nerf sac to keep Destro at least on the level?

    the whole development of Warlocks since Xelnath left seems to be really confused and sloppy.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  2. #2
    I feel the same totally stupid.

    "BF competes with def talents and needs to be defensive. Sac competes with other demon talents and can't be the only choice. "

    How the fuck is losing 20% health defensive?

    Sac isn't the only choice. Its only good for afflic pve and in some rare cases destro pve and destro pvp. Pretty much the others are better for all other spec combos.

    What is he on about?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    I feel the same totally stupid.

    "BF competes with def talents and needs to be defensive. Sac competes with other demon talents and can't be the only choice. "

    How the fuck is losing 20% health defensive?

    Sac isn't the only choice. Its only good for afflic pve and in some rare cases destro pve and destro pvp. Pretty much the others are better for all other spec combos.

    What is he on about?

    mb he thinks dat sac is too good compared to those other 2 ... so nerf talent so its even.. and then buff spec ? mb? dunno - i hate GC :O

  4. #4
    A nerf to GoSac for Destruction is justified with his reasoning (because it really is the only option for Destruction right now), but the spec needs some buffs in conjunction with that nerf. I somehow doubt there will be any buffs, but lets see...

    But you have a good point about Blood Pact then making the Imp mandatory. Even if they are all the same, this would be a problem by their definition. But they are not all the same and I doubt they will change anything, so we will be stuck with a subpar pet if we want to supply Stamina which then noone will do.

  5. #5
    GC always annoyed me for some reason, back in the days I played a paladin and he showed almost the same disdain for that class.

  6. #6
    On Blood Fear: It is NOT Howl of Terror/Mortal Coil V2.0 and everyone needs to get into their skulls that it is not intended to be a reactive ability, but rather a pro-active deterrent as Cataclysm was. Cataclysm didn't work, because players would duck out of the effect and move back in. The problem with the new Blood Fear is that it can be similarly mitigated/worked around through the use of pets, Fear Ward or maybe even simply purging/spellstealing (I don't know if it's dispellable, I would hope not). The health cost is therefore mostly nominal when it's being used as intended - as a pre-loaded deterrent - and wholly intended to prevent the ability being used offensively.

    On Sacrifice: It's too far ahead of the alternatives meaning they aren't. In regards to Destro specifically, Sac does sim a little ahead; although I think they missed that the real problem is Havoc synergy.

    On Dark Intent: Fuck knows. Literally no one ever wants Blood Pact activated anyway since it causes ranging issues and has a habbit of overwriting then leaving people unbuffed. I think a huge proportion of the community still wont acknowledge it provides as big a buff as the other Stamina buffs as well. It does need looking at.

  7. #7
    I love using my imp!
    Nippik is often at my side, sometimes shooting fireballs, sometimes just standing there beign dumb.

    And the nerf to GoSac for destruction is, in my opinion, justified.

    Aslong as Blood Fear isn't dispellable it's all right I think, maybe it shouldn't cost 20% health though.

  8. #8
    The question is will Sac be useful at all after this? I'm fine with it being nerfed to the point where its down to personal preference but it shouldn't be nerfed to the point where no one takes it.

  9. #9
    I wonder what info Blizzard actually collects about DPS and such. It seems that both sim-wise and fight by fight mages are far more dominant than warlocks. I perversely hope that GoSac is being nerfed in relation to the other grimoires and not because of its overall success because that would bode ill. Just because this tier is Naxxramas doesn't mean Ulduar hard modes aren't lurking behind the corner.

    I haven't PvPed since Wrath, but it seems pretty predictable how the changes have neutered warlock cc. I don't know what's such a mystery.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  10. #10
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    On Blood Fear: It is NOT Howl of Terror/Mortal Coil V2.0 and everyone needs to get into their skulls that it is not intended to be a reactive ability, but rather a pro-active deterrent as Cataclysm was. Cataclysm didn't work, because players would duck out of the effect and move back in. The problem with the new Blood Fear is that it can be similarly mitigated/worked around through the use of pets, Fear Ward or maybe even simply purging/spellstealing (I don't know if it's dispellable, I would hope not). The health cost is therefore mostly nominal when it's being used as intended - as a pre-loaded deterrent - and wholly intended to prevent the ability being used offensively.
    It's a suicide button, that's all I can say about it, no matter how you're going to use it.
    I have to disagree with the whole cataclysm thing tho, it had a very nice synergy with other classes that could keep people on 1 spot. Almost every single warlock that plays with a druid, mage, death knight, etc or plays RBG would find cataclysm useful. The new blood fear on the other hand, is just a joke, end of story.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    It's a suicide button, that's all I can say about it, no matter how you're going to use it.
    I have to disagree with the whole cataclysm thing tho, it had a very nice synergy with other classes that could keep people on 1 spot. Almost every single warlock that plays with a druid, mage, death knight, etc or plays RBG would find cataclysm useful. The new blood fear on the other hand, is just a joke, end of story
    Yeah I have to agree with you on that. blood fear right now just costs far too much health to be considered a good choice to use. the mechanics of the ability seem mediocre but useable if they lower the health cost. until that health cost is lowered this ability is only useful to those who play with a healer in pvp, which they really seem to be pushing on locks.

    as for what ghostcrawler said about the dark intent buff I think that is pure bs. how can you say every pet is suppose to be used and then say our second buff(blood pact) comes from only one pet and to get that buff your suppose to use that pet. this game is suppose to be about customization and choosing to play with a certain pet or playing with grimoire of sacrifice are two valid ways we do that, why should we be forced to use a certain pet just for blood pact when clearly it could work better if they put it into dark intent or making it base for all pets?

  12. #12
    If all warlocks are "supposed" to use pets why the hell did they implement gosac? Now that it's there they might as well make it useful for at least one spec. As for the new blood fear being on par with other talents... wah?? A melee is wailing on me, so I want something defensive like blood fear to kill me 20% more for him while he takes 1 sec to trinket then kill me that much faster?

    As for the answer for destro, I hope he was insinuating that imp will be a go to pet and thats how they'll end up buffing it? Otherwise that question was pretty much ignored.

    No wonder we're getting an island, it's probably were we'll go when we're benched for raids lolol.

    Also... simulating dps is bad for ranking? dafuq kinda drugs is he doing? I'll admit it's not always the optimal way.. it's a pretty good indication though.
    Last edited by Gohzerlock; 2013-01-06 at 08:15 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    GC always annoyed me for some reason, back in the days I played a paladin and he showed almost the same disdain for that class.
    You're not alone with that opinion.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    No wonder we're getting an island, it's probably were we'll go when we're benched for raids lolol.
    This made me laugh despite also making me sad, haha

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    GC always annoyed me for some reason, back in the days I played a paladin and he showed almost the same disdain for that class.
    This is just stupid. A developer isn't going to show "Disdain" for a class. Just because you think that in your overly dramatic mind, doesn't mean it makes sense whatsoever.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Starfighter View Post
    This is just stupid. A developer isn't going to show "Disdain" for a class. Just because you think that in your overly dramatic mind, doesn't mean it makes sense whatsoever.
    I was playing paladin in vanilla, and i completly agree with him.

  17. #17
    IMHO: Pet sac should be removed entirely. It really does eliminate flavor of warlock class vs. mage.

    In any case, sac + destru was too good in PvE, but especially powerful in PvP AOE.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by hx9 View Post
    IMHO: Pet sac should be removed entirely. It really does eliminate flavor of warlock class vs. mage.

    In any case, sac + destru was too good in PvE, but especially powerful in PvP AOE.
    Mage has a pet also.Remove it from them and we are ok

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by demonik View Post
    Yeah I have to agree with you on that. blood fear right now just costs far too much health to be considered a good choice to use. the mechanics of the ability seem mediocre but useable if they lower the health cost. until that health cost is lowered this ability is only useful to those who play with a healer in pvp, which they really seem to be pushing on locks.
    It's a buff, cast on you. It should be up before someone is on your face and therefore, before the health cost matters. Again, it is NOT a reactive emergency button - Mortal Coil and Howl of Terror are for that, so if you want a button that does that: Pick either of those. I really cannot understand why people continue to paint it as something it clearly isn't.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by pitakos View Post
    I was playing paladin in vanilla, and i completly agree with him.
    Didn't ghostcrawler come in 2008 to blizzard? As far as I know he was lead game designer at ensemble studios, then left in 2008 to join wow development team. So GC didn't "disdain" your class back then.

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