NASA working on Warp Drives - FTL Speeds looking possible

[semaphore]

All they're doing right now is playing with a Michelson interferometer. I highly doubt it costs anywhere close to 0.48% of 0.48% of the NASA budget.

[DEATHETERNAL]

And researching into this pertains to everything else to obtain this.

Which results in us knowing we need a whole host of other impossible things to achieve one of the many highly theoretical methods of achieving FTL with all of that whole host of other things being impossible to obtain at the current technological base as well.

Edison didn't try and build a rocket to go to the Pluto even though it would have been nice to have, instead he went for things that he thought were actually possible to obtain. Because of that choice, the technological base was advanced instead of stagnant while something that was impossible at the time was researched.

All they're doing right now is playing with a Michelson interferometer. I highly doubt it costs anywhere close to 0.48% of 0.48% of the NASA budget.

It is only a little waste so it doesn't matter....
Say that a million times and you get the current budget deficit that we have (oh wait, congress already did it for you).

While you do have a valid point, you're forgetting one thing. There are many different instances over the course of human history where spending funds to research one form of technology has lead to a discovery, or an increase in efficiency in a completely unrelated field. So while I do agree that the technology base is not there yet for FTL tech, we simply don't know what other discoveries lay under the surface.

While true in cases of research for things that the technological base is NEARLY to the point that it can support, research for things this far out into the impossible is significantly less likely to do so. Even if it might, would it not be better to put the funds into something that is less impossible and far more likely to generate random side advancements?

[Snuzzfizzle]

America will surely be the first to go faster than light. USA #1.

Shit was so cash, dude.

[semaphore]

While true in cases of research for things that the technological base is NEARLY to the point that it can support, research for things this far out into the impossible is very unlikely to do so.

They aren't researching something impossible. They are researching small concrete steps that could eventually lead to the warp drive.

The Michelson interferometer they are testing is 19th century stuff. The technological base is here. You're just too caught up in the hype to understand what they are actually spending money on.

[DEATHETERNAL]

They aren't researching something impossible. They are researching small concrete steps that could eventually lead to the warp drive.

"I suddenly realized that if you made the thickness of the negative vacuum energy ring larger — like shifting from a belt shape to a donut shape — and oscillate the warp bubble, you can greatly reduce the energy required — perhaps making the idea plausible."

So this that they are using time and recourses on isn't impossible to develop and obtain within the lifetime of this research?

Which results in us knowing we need a whole host of other impossible things to achieve one of the many highly theoretical methods of achieving FTL with all of that whole host of other things being impossible to obtain at the current technological base as well.

On topic: I do think we'll see some pretty incredible advances in space travel in our lifetimes. I think people take for granted just how far we've come in the last 20-30 years alone.

We may well do a great many incredible things within our solar system in out lifetimes, yes. I'd bet my life on us landing a person on Mars just for the heck of it to say we did and possibly going as far as some of the moons of the gas giants.

[semaphore]

"I suddenly realized that if you made the thickness of the negative vacuum energy ring larger — like shifting from a belt shape to a donut shape — and oscillate the warp bubble, you can greatly reduce the energy required — perhaps making the idea plausible."

So this that they are using time and recourses on isn't impossible to develop and obtain within the lifetime of this research?

Except, for the third time, that's not what they're doing. They're working on small steps which are entirely possible that may eventually lead up to this. They aren't jumping in at the deep end of the pool.

It's like, do you even understand how research works?

[The Ogdru Jahad]

technically, it's still not faster than light, as you are moving the space around you and not yourself, thus making it still possible for light that moves with you to move faster than you, it's closer to teleporting than it is to actual physically moving from A to B. (funny side note: the space ship in Futurama also uses this technology).

Because you're a physicist working for NASA. amirite?

[DEATHETERNAL]

Except, for the third time, that's not what they're doing. They're working on small steps which are entirely possible that may eventually lead up to this. They aren't jumping in at the deep end of the pool.

It's like, do you even understand how research works?

So you are saying that the goal of what they are currently doing in the lab, the active alteration of the theoretical base of the universe that is space-time, is not the deep end of the pool?

[Remilia]

So you are saying that the goal of what they are currently doing in the lab, the active alteration of the theoretical base of the universe that is space-time, is not the deep end of the pool?

Work in steps is basically what we've been saying. Small steps leading to a goal is not just leaping at the goal which you keep saying.

[Deleted]

Survivability inside the bubble
A paper by José Natário published in 2002 argued that it would be impossible for the ship to send signals to the front of the bubble, meaning that crew members could not control, steer or stop the ship.[18]
A more recent paper by Carlos Barceló, Stefano Finazzi, and Stefano Liberati makes use of quantum theory to argue that the Alcubierre drive at faster-than-light velocities is impossible, mostly because extremely high temperatures caused by Hawking radiation would destroy anything inside the bubble at superluminal velocities and lead to instability of the bubble itself. These problems do not arise if the bubble velocity is kept subluminal, but exotic matter is still necessary for the drive to work.[19]

From Wikipedia.

More information can be found here, including the difficulties that have been found that have/haven't yet been disputed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

[semaphore]

So you are saying that the goal of what they are currently doing in the lab, the active alteration of the theoretical base of the universe that is space-time, is not the deep end of the pool?

All they're doing is shooting a laser at a toroidal capacitor ring, to see what happens.

If you consider that "the deep end of the pool", then that says a lot about your knowledge on this topic (or lack thereof).

[Sayl]

This is actually interesting. What I'm curious about though, is how does he plan on creating the warp bubble? I've always been under the impression that it required unobtanium, and hence why it's generally not taken seriously. Is it using a Cashmir vacuum for exotic matter or something?

There doesn't look to be enough information in the paper to hazard a guess.

[Deleted]

All they're doing is shooting a laser at a toroidal capacitor ring, to see what happens.

If you consider that "the deep end of the pool", then that says a lot about your knowledge on this topic (or lack thereof).

His question was worded in a completely different way though. It made sense.

[semaphore]

There doesn't look to be enough information in the paper to hazard a guess.

I'm really curious as to what results he'll get. Rationally/cautiously I doubt anything will come of it, but it would be cool if it worked!

His question was worded in a completely different way though. It made sense.

The way he worded that question indicates he have no idea what NASA is trying to do even as he bashed NASA for wasting pennies on "impossible" things.

[Milchshake]

That old article is bait for the scientifically gullible.

We hashed it out over 11 pages about 4 months ago.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...sting-underway

[Deleted]

I'm really curious as to what results he'll get. Rationally/cautiously I doubt anything will come of it, but it would be cool if it worked!


The way he worded that question indicates he have no idea what NASA is trying to do even as he bashed NASA for wasting pennies on "impossible" things.

Without going personal on things, I think what he meant is that there is still so much missing in terms of what we need to make this "warp drive" work that researching on it is like researching on (as he put it. To me, a sound analogy) chemiotherapy two thousand years ago.
We lack the "tools" to get there do we not?
Building materials, reliable and endless energy sources...
I don't think he meant money in research is wasted, I think he meant money AND manpower spent towards THAT goal might be misused.

[Sayl]

I really doubt it costs a lot of money for someone to sit down and do mathematics, and for someone else to build a michelson-morley interferometer. The entire budget of NASA last year was .48% of the federal budget. Out of that, I'd bet not even 10% was put towards this.

10% of NASA's budget would be a significant amount of money, far more than anyone would be allowed to commit to an experiment this far down the trough. For a laser and interferometer setup we're talking about a couple grand, tops. It's important for people to remember that the core ingredients for this recipe are not only inexpensive, but probably already on hand at something like an applied physics lab (this stuff is reusable, not disposable).

[Deleted]

People talking about NASAs budget got me thinking of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbIZU8cQWXc

[semaphore]

Without going personal on things, I think what he meant is that there is still so much missing in terms of what we need to make this "warp drive" work that researching on it is like researching on (as he put it. To me, a sound analogy) chemiotherapy two thousand years ago.
We lack the "tools" to get there do we not?

And what everyone else in this thread is saying, is that we are researching small steps that may in the indefinite future give us the tools to build a real warp drive. This is like complaining about researching gliders because we didn't "have the tools to build an actual manned flying aircraft".

To me, a sound analogy

It's a terrible analogy because it's bashing NASA while completely failing to understand what NASA's doing. This is more like Romans researching what herbs can help sick people deal with nausea.

[Milchshake]

One thing that really bugs me. This guy's table-top laser is nothing more than a thought-experiment, and it keeps getting all this hype.

This guy wants to detect some kind of gravity wave in his kitchen.

Whereas the largest NSF project to date, LIGO, has tried to detect gravitational-waves for years with no luck so far.
LIGO cost $365 million
LIGO has (2) 2 mile long Laser Interferometers, the 2 observatories are about 3000km apart