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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    "I have no problems, ergo that must be the case for everyone." There, confusion solved.[COLOR="red"]
    Turn it around. You are saying because you have a problem with playing a mage everyone else must. OP seems to think his view is universal, the one who replied just stated he did not have a problem. Who do you think has the more reasonable attitude? Hint - reasonable is never someone who thinks his view is universal.

  2. #22
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    "I have no problems, ergo that must be the case for everyone." There, confusion solved.[COLOR="red"]
    "I have problems, therefor everything should change to accommodate my needs!"

    Mages really haven't changed much since Cata, so I don't see how people can be complaining about it now. Mages are still one of the best DPS classes in the game.

  3. #23
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    Turn it around. You are saying because you have a problem with playing a mage everyone else must. OP seems to think his view is universal, the one who replied just stated he did not have a problem. Who do you think has the more reasonable attitude? Hint - reasonable is never someone who thinks his view is universal.
    I didn't say "everyone else must", not have I ever said it. But, given the vitriol present on both these forums, the official forums, and the myriad of mage-specific forums across the web, not to mention my own interviews of people that play mages in game precisely to gauge opinion, I believe it fair to say that the state of mages is a general unpopularity.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 01:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    "I have problems, therefor everything should change to accommodate my needs!"

    Mages really haven't changed much since Cata, so I don't see how people can be complaining about it now. Mages are still one of the best DPS classes in the game.
    What is the point of having good DPS if your mechanics are busted and un-fun? Mechanics come first, numbers follow. It is vastly easier to adjust damage percentages, coefficients, and whatnot than it is to make changes to underlying mechanics.

    And that is partially the problem. Mages carry a lot of baggage dating back to Vanilla that impedes their ability to adjust to the new brand of raiding.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
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  4. #24
    I've never been a part of a community so toxic. This community sucks.

    Every class board and forum is full of "our class sucks, fix us".

    Just a headache to see complaining about a different class on the front page every time I refresh MMO-C.

  5. #25
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaley View Post
    I've never been a part of a community so toxic. This community sucks.

    Every class board and forum is full of "our class sucks, fix us".

    Just a headache to see complaining about a different class on the front page every time I refresh MMO-C.
    At a certain point, the problem becomes the common denominator.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  6. #26
    Mechagnome Sarthan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sw1tch View Post
    "In all honesty, I'm feeling like we need a complete revamp. I don't see what direction you guys want Mages to be in for MoP."

    "We really like the mechanics of all 3 mages now. Most of the changed we've made are just damage adjustments."

    Source: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...07785877831680

    You mage players are funny. You get 1 nerf an expansion and you still complain and want a revamp. It's not like you guys are not viable in raids or PvP so what is the big deal.

  7. #27
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    You mage players are funny. You get 1 nerf an expansion and you still complain and want a revamp. It's not like you guys are not viable in raids or PvP so what is the big deal.
    Damage is a mask of true issues.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Pardon me for being vehement in my attempts to get my beloved class in a good state.

    Now, if you're done with the ad hominems, post something relevant or get out.
    Bitching on MMOChamp is not trying to get it changed, however ironically enough, his suggestion would actually be more along the lines of what you're claiming to be trying to accomplish.
    Quote Originally Posted by -Ethos- View Post
    I literally die every time i see people using literally wrong.

  9. #29
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Someone said: never judge a video game by its online community. The primary function of our board is to comment, complain, suggest and help eachother. Didactic is one of our more prominent posters as far as suggestions and complaints go, there is no reason to be hostile to someone because you disagree with their views.

    In short: knock it off. I'm tired of petty bickering. Think about the following: A is complaining about something they don't like in a place designed for people to complain about stuff thet don't like. B is complaining about A. Who is more beneficial to the community? Consider it a warning, we do not need people who are counterproductive in our discussions, especially when they post against those who are very active here and you are not.
    Last edited by Shangalar; 2013-01-06 at 09:56 PM.

  10. #30
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    This thread is awful. Seriously?

    First of all if you aren't a mage, gtfo. Nobody is bitching about nerfs or wanting buffs. It is by no means too much to ask that pure dps classes have engaging gameplay and have some diversity between specs. If you are a mage, and are happy with how the class is right now, good for you. You likely haven't been playing long, but there is no need to discount the concerns of people who don't agree that the class, and with the exception of warlocks, pures in general, are in a very good place. Hunters, rogues, and mages all suffer for the new talent system. It is clearly better for hybrids that have more talents and intra-class diversity. There is little doubt in my mind that there will have to be significant changes in both how pures function, and the talent system, if Blizzard expects them to remain attractive classes in the future.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 03:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Someone said: never judge a video game by its online community. The primary function of our board is to comment, complain, suggest and help eachother. Didactic is one of our more prominent posters as far as suggestions and complaints go, there is no reason to be hostile to someone because you disagree with their views.

    In short: knock it off. I'm tired of petty bickering. Think about the following: A is complaining about something they don't like in a place designed for people to complain about stuff thet don't like. B is complaining about A. Who is more beneficial to the community? Considering it a warning, we do not need people who are counterproductive in our discussions, especially when they are very active here and you are not.
    edit: great point Shang

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Someone said: never judge a video game by its online community. The primary function of our board is to comment, complain, suggest and help eachother. Didactic is one of our more prominent posters as far as suggestions and complaints go, there is no reason to be hostile to someone because you disagree with their views.

    In short: knock it off. I'm tired of petty bickering. Think about the following: A is complaining about something they don't like in a place designed for people to complain about stuff thet don't like. B is complaining about A. Who is more beneficial to the community? Considering it a warning, we do not need people who are counterproductive in our discussions, especially when they are very active here and you are not.
    Which community? The WoW community or the MMO Champion community?

    Counterproductive how? I hardly think making a suggestion that could actually have the possibility of getting something done is counterproductive.

    You think about this:

    A is complaining about something they don't like in a place designed for complaining about it when there are better places or ways to move forward productively. B offers up one of those solutions. C comes in and tells B to shut up because he doesn't post as much as A. Who is more beneficial in this scenario, and who is least?

  12. #32
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    The MMO Champion community revolves around spreading news about changes to World of Warcraft and allows people to express their opinions on those changes or anything that has to do with the game and beyond (in the Off-topic forums). The point of the community is not to talk about other people within the community. As a moderator, it is my duty to keep discussions on track.

    Your suggestion, while coming on as slightly humorous, was predominantly rude and hostile.

    I will now be closing this thread as I believe there is nothing productive left to gain from it. If you wish to discuss this topic further (who is more or less useful), feel free to send me a private message. However, if you feel that I have unjustly issued a warning to this thread and then subsequently closed it, please contact Super Moderators or Administrators as I am not able to discuss moderation with other posters.

  13. #33
    Re-opening the thread as per PM.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 10:56 PM ----------

    The discussion should be kept clean from here on out since no more warnings before a closure will go out. I'm being nice here...you know how rare that is.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask View Post
    What's the problem with mages, according to you ?
    The L90 talents are abysmal. Having mages standstill is fine, but if we are standing still, we should be doing some insane damage, which currently isn't the case. (With the exception of the soon-to-be-fixed Arcane 6 stack camping). Rune of Power needs to be instant cast with maybe a lower then average GCD. Either that or give it an indefinite duration. Maybe have the damage and mana effect linger for 3-5 seconds after leaving the Rune too? It's pretty easy to fix RoP's issues.If you're going to make us stand on a small radius, I better be a minor god within that radius.

    Generally speaking most of the QoL problems facing magi could be fixed by simply showing the L90 talents some genuine thought. Nearly every other class gets a straight awesome buff that is incredibly easy to manage. Instead we have these clunky and relatively hard to use skills. And without them you can count our damage out.

    But based on that tweet, I'm not so sure we'll be seeing anything we want to see.
    Last edited by Sw1tch; 2013-01-06 at 11:11 PM.

  15. #35
    I posted this elsewhere, but I would prefer the pure dps classes to lose the survivability and control talents. If those abilities are so important, make them base. A DPS's job is to dps; all their spec choices should be based on how to dps.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 03:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sw1tch View Post
    The L90 talents are abysmal. Having mages standstill is fine, but if we are standing still, we should be doing some insane damage, which currently isn't the case. (With the exception of the soon-to-be-fixed Arcane 6 stack camping). Rune of Power needs to be instant cast with maybe a lower then average GCD. Either that or give it an indefinite duration

    Generally speaking most of the QoL problems facing magi could be fixed by simply showing the L90 talents some genuine thought. Nearly every other class gets a straight awesome buff that is incredibly easy to manage. Instead we have these clunky and relatively hard to use skills. And without them you can count our damage out.

    But based on that tweet, I'm not so sure we'll be seeing anything we want to see.
    I like the idea behind the L90 talents. Some tweaking would be appreciated.
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  16. #36
    The Patient Wiredmana's Avatar
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    R.I.P. Pushbacks.

    I used to play my Fire Mage just for the Blastwave Pushback. Nearly nothing else. Then they ripped it away without a single answer to why. And yet still, today, we ask. No answer.

    Mages really haven't changed much since Cata, so I don't see how people can be complaining about it now. Mages are still one of the best DPS classes in the game.
    Mages changed a LOT from Wrath to Cataclysm. There's a lot of Mages really just hoping, waiting, and dreaming that the 'fixes' get fixed. Though I'm nearly jumping ship already - It just looks like it's going further and further downhill.
    Last edited by Wiredmana; 2013-01-06 at 11:11 PM.

  17. #37
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sw1tch View Post
    The L90 talents are abysmal. Having mages standstill is fine, but if we are standing still, we should be doing some insane damage, which currently isn't the case. (With the exception of the soon-to-be-fixed Arcane 6 stack camping). Rune of Power needs to be instant cast with maybe a lower then average GCD. Either that or give it an indefinite duration
    Rune of power has issues and needs to be changed quite a bit but I think Invocation is fine how it is now. We also need to wait and see how good the invocation rotation for arcane is and how the 5.2 invocation will really change things.

    I've always felt the criticisms of having to stand still while evocating were just people overreacting to change and if Invocation is viable with arcane as well as rune of power I think mages will be in a good place.

    Frost and arcane are the top 2 specs when we're standing still so I don't quite see why we need more damage.
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  18. #38
    I've said it before but really the only change I really want for the 90 talents is for them to pick one that Arcane should have, make that a passive effect for the spec and then make the talents into pure damage buffs (IE: Invocation would become a separate spell to Evocation, Rune of Power would no longer replace Evocation, all of them would no longer restore mana).
    After that they might need a few numbers tweaks but I have had 0 problems adapting to their use and it adds an extra dimension to rotations that are otherwise in many ways not always particularly challenging.

    Their only flaw is how they interact with the Arcane spec.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by spk View Post
    I jumped ship mid cata, what do I win?
    You win the logical badge... for having the ... to reroll instead of complain about mage flavourings that have existed since the class has.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredmana View Post
    R.I.P. Pushbacks.

    I used to play my Fire Mage just for the Blastwave Pushback. Nearly nothing else. Then they ripped it away without a single answer to why. And yet still, today, we ask. No answer.


    Mages changed a LOT from Wrath to Cataclysm. There's a lot of Mages really just hoping, waiting, and dreaming that the 'fixes' get fixed. Though I'm nearly jumping ship already - It just looks like it's going further and further downhill.
    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you are soooo funny. seriously you "used to" play fire mage JSUT FOR blastwave knockback. thats a horrible excuse to "quit the class" are you even trying???

    mages didnt really get alot changes from wrath to cata, only arcane got changed due to mastery. not even hot streak got changed so i dunno what you are on about with these "changes"

    uhhh what are the "fixes" are you waiting for honestly??? let me hear you out hmmm????

    and finally you cant just mourn about mages needs a revamp...... some of you just whine about something then doesnt give ANY!!! ideas to the "fixes" you want.

    oh and what Imnick said pretty much

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