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  1. #1

    New to Mistweaver - A few questions.

    Hello there, I'm new to the monk class and to the mistweaver specc. So far it's really fun to play. I've read up a bit on it, but I have a few questions about some abilities and how to play the class properly. I'm not yet level 90, but I like this class quite a bit, so I'll probably get there in the near future.

    #1: Mana Tea. I've seen loads of people glyphing this. I can see why so you don't have to channel it and so. Do you use it on cooldown to gain mana back? And if I'm not mistaken you gain 8% mana per 10 sec, is this correct?

    #2: Fistweaving. I've read about this concept. Quite different from other healing specs as far as I know. Is this something you have to do to perform well as a MV Monk? If so, can someone explain it shortly. Do you always try to get use blackout kick 5 times to get that free surging mist, or is it worth it to spend Chi on other things like Chi Wave or Enveloping mists? (I don't have all the spells yet). And about the Tiger Palm - "When you auto attack you heal" basically - Do you keep auto attacking when you cast soothing mists and other spells? I don't see the usefulness in it, otherwise.

    #3: Uplift. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but first you do 2 renewing mist so 6 people get the buff, thunder focus tea and then uplift? Can you keep spamming this when you need to AoE heal, or how does it work in a good way?


    And just overall - I've checked some guides and some stuff, not really sure about everything yet, though. Would be nice if someone could link their armory / MV Monk PoV videos on raids so I could check out some things!



    Rullis

  2. #2
    #1 - You are correct, the glyph makes it instant but restricts the maximum mana you can get back from the ability in a given time.

    #2 - Fistweaving is utilizing eminence to heal, basically placing your statue down and using blackout kick x 2 will cause all your auto attacks to heal nearby players. Tiger Palm adds 30% ignore to armor and increases the healing by a reasonable amount. The surging mist isn't something you aim for, it just comes with maintaining your buffs.

    #3 - You can get ReM on 7 people without TFT. That's with casting it 3 times, if you then use TFT optimally you can get a lot more targets, uplift costs 2 chi so it has a limit on being spammed unless you glyph it. In that case it costs mana.

    In terms of gearing your character, you'll want a reasonable amount of spirit which you can heal effectively with.

    Spirit (to comfortable amount) > Int > Haste (to 3146 OUT OF STANCE) > Crit > Mastery > Haste (Over 3146)

  3. #3
    Thanks for your fast answers.

    For the #2 - Do you keep auto attacking when you cast soothing mists? Just to make sure - you keep up 2 stacks of blackout kick and one stack of tiger palm (30% armor) - and the surging mist is just a bonus?
    What does the statue do in this scenario?

    #3 - It's on for 18 sec and has an 8 sec cooldown - that means you can do it on 2 people (and bounce to 4 more? or am I wrong here?) - Then TFT and uplift to renew it on them?


    Sorry for the long questions, just want to make sure about everything so I don't go around thinking otherwise.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rullis View Post
    For the #2 - Do you keep auto attacking when you cast soothing mists? Just to make sure - you keep up 2 stacks of blackout kick and one stack of tiger palm (30% armor) - and the surging mist is just a bonus?
    What does the statue do in this scenario?
    Fistweaving is practically replacing casting soothing mist. The statue also copies your eminence heal.
    It happens very rarely that you will gain the "free" surging mist when fistweaving, you will spend your chi rather in uplift or chi wave for 10 mans and use tiger's palm only to maintain the 30% armor reduce.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Fistweaving is practically replacing casting soothing mist. The statue also copies your eminence heal.
    It happens very rarely that you will gain the "free" surging mist when fistweaving, you will spend your chi rather in uplift or chi wave for 10 mans and use tiger's palm only to maintain the 30% armor reduce.
    Oh I see, so there are practically 2 ways of healing with a Monk. I guess I'll have to see which one I like best later when I'm up on the higher levels. Thank you very much for your answers! I might post more questions here later if nobody minds

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rullis View Post
    Oh I see, so there are practically 2 ways of healing with a Monk. I guess I'll have to see which one I like best later when I'm up on the higher levels. Thank you very much for your answers! I might post more questions here later if nobody minds
    Sorta. Yes, there are two styles of MW healing, but optimally you'll want to use both depending on the situation and encounter.

  7. #7
    You'll want to use TFT when RM is on 7 people, this only happens after at least 3 casts of renewing mist.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    You'll want to use TFT when RM is on 7 people, this only happens after at least 3 casts of renewing mist.

    But won't the first one I apply it to run out by then?

  9. #9
    The Patient
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    # 1 , as what the other players said, the glyph let's you consume 2 stacks every 10 sec for a GCD instead of 2sec ( maybe 4 , never used without ) of channeling, as for now we can't produce enough stacks to make the glyph bottleneck us.

    #2, fistweaving is rather confusing and very very situational, however there are a number of fights where it is really strong ( think of damage done increased, as where healing one stays the same, elegon, amber shaper) you either auto-attack, if you want to gain some mana. ( keep the buffs up ), or use a bunch of tiger palm.

    #3 on fights with really high aoe damage, garalon for example i use a rotation of
    renewing mist on cooldown
    uplift
    thunder focus brew
    and soothing mist a filler.
    this makes us one of the best aoe healing of all classes

    #4
    for some info,
    armory : http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...xceeder/simple
    might be in wind walker gear

    my guilds world of logs
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/106112/

    i'm exceeder and i've been raiding pretty much every week.

    if you got any more questions just send a PM or Contact me in-game ( exceeder Eu daenor )
    Last edited by gronch; 2013-01-06 at 10:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rullis View Post
    But won't the first one I apply it to run out by then?
    18 seconds, 8 second cooldown.

    You'll have a good window after the third cast is fully spread to apply another Renewing Mist.

  11. #11
    Ah, yes, I thought 8+8, forgot to count in the cast at 0 sec! Thanks for all the links and tips

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    #1 - You are correct, the glyph makes it instant but restricts the maximum mana you can get back from the ability in a given time.
    This is...rather inaccurate.

    The glyph does not let you chug all the stacks to get a huge chunk of mana back all at once, no, but it is a throughput increase as far as mana gained per time spent chugging. Glyphed Mana Tea lets you chug stacks at twice the rate of unglyphed, albeit spread out.

    It's a rather strong glyph, assuming you're paying attention with your stacks throughout the fight.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    This is...rather inaccurate.

    The glyph does not let you chug all the stacks to get a huge chunk of mana back all at once, no, but it is a throughput increase as far as mana gained per time spent chugging. Glyphed Mana Tea lets you chug stacks at twice the rate of unglyphed, albeit spread out.

    It's a rather strong glyph, assuming you're paying attention with your stacks throughout the fight.
    i would also like to point out if ur 2 healing most fights on 10man raids u rarely have the time to be chugging down 10 stacks of mana tea as opposed to using a gcd every now and then, might be different for 25man

  14. #14
    Personally I wouldn't go for the haste softcap. There may be some fights where it could prove to be good. But generally I find it a waste considering how much mana MW burns.

    Spirit>Crit>Mastery>Haste

    At a 1:2 Intellect to secondary stat ratio. Intellect would land between Spirit and Crit.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Rullis View Post
    Hello there, I'm new to the monk class and to the mistweaver specc. So far it's really fun to play. I've read up a bit on it, but I have a few questions about some abilities and how to play the class properly. I'm not yet level 90, but I like this class quite a bit, so I'll probably get there in the near future.

    #1: Mana Tea. I've seen loads of people glyphing this. I can see why so you don't have to channel it and so. Do you use it on cooldown to gain mana back? And if I'm not mistaken you gain 8% mana per 10 sec, is this correct?
    I don't see any reason not to glyph this. We don't have an alternative major glyph worth using anyway so might as well get the mana tea glyph so you can use your stacks more efficiently and while moving, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rullis View Post
    #2: Fistweaving. I've read about this concept. Quite different from other healing specs as far as I know. Is this something you have to do to perform well as a MV Monk? If so, can someone explain it shortly. Do you always try to get use blackout kick 5 times to get that free surging mist, or is it worth it to spend Chi on other things like Chi Wave or Enveloping mists? (I don't have all the spells yet). And about the Tiger Palm - "When you auto attack you heal" basically - Do you keep auto attacking when you cast soothing mists and other spells? I don't see the usefulness in it, otherwise.
    I tend to find fistweaving more mana efficient, but I don't know if others feels the same way. Regardless of if I'm fistweaving or traditional casting my SM or eminence numbers tend to be nearly identical unless it's a gimmicky fight. If it's a tank damage heavy fight or if I find the tank not getting enough heals I tend to just keep SM channeling for the faster big heals if needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rullis View Post
    #3: Uplift. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but first you do 2 renewing mist so 6 people get the buff, thunder focus tea and then uplift? Can you keep spamming this when you need to AoE heal, or how does it work in a good way?
    In a perfect world you use RM right on CD every time so you always have RM on 6 people. You can use TFT then uplift right before an RM to get RM on an additional 3 people, then do some more uplifts when you need extra aoe healing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rullis View Post
    And just overall - I've checked some guides and some stuff, not really sure about everything yet, though. Would be nice if someone could link their armory / MV Monk PoV videos on raids so I could check out some things!
    TBH monk healing is really simple. If you aren't fistweaving you cast RM on CD, EH(expel harm) on CD for chi, soothing mist as filler/chi generation, and use EM as your primary single target big heal, and chi wave/uplift for aoe healing. Personally I prefer chi torpedo for heavy aoe healing as well, but I know some like xuen.

    If you're fistweaving it's identical to casting but instead of using soothing mists you're just keeping up your two buffs. Personally I'll keep my chi at 3-4 at all times and just auto-attack if there's no healing to be done.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Fistweaving is practically replacing casting soothing mist. The statue also copies your eminence heal.
    It happens very rarely that you will gain the "free" surging mist when fistweaving, you will spend your chi rather in uplift or chi wave for 10 mans and use tiger's palm only to maintain the 30% armor reduce.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chi Burst better than Chi Wave? Maybe it's a 10 man thing, but I've always heard Chi Burst is better for the level 30 talents.
    <Baddies> US-Stormreaver US 78th 14/14H 25m

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludacritts View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chi Burst better than Chi Wave? Maybe it's a 10 man thing, but I've always heard Chi Burst is better for the level 30 talents.
    The answer to all "which is better" questions for monk healing: it depends.

    Chi Burst is better when you're wanting it for heavy clumped aoe healing, beyond even what Uplift can provide.
    Chi Wave is better for...everything else.

    If you're in a situation where Uplift is better than Chi Burst, which happens when there is any target spreading at all, then you should be using your 2 chi for Uplift and not Chi Burst for aoe healing situations. And if you're not using Chi Burst for aoe healing situations, then there's no point to having it.

    10 vs 25 does make a pretty big difference: even in 25s, Chi Burst can heal the whole raid (albeit aoe capped in the process), and Uplift can't.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Saozin View Post
    Personally I wouldn't go for the haste softcap. There may be some fights where it could prove to be good. But generally I find it a waste considering how much mana MW burns.

    Spirit>Crit>Mastery>Haste

    At a 1:2 Intellect to secondary stat ratio. Intellect would land between Spirit and Crit.
    Haste soft cap is EXTREMELY important because it resets the haste reduction on your ReM timer. IE instead of 17.2 seconds it lasts 18.8 seconds. This is very large when considering TFT and that you need rem on people to use uplift. Longer duration and no change in CD= more coverage. Hit the cap unless you're in VERY low ilvl gear.
    I value int at a 1:2 ratio as >spirit, ala
    Int> spirit> crit >>>>>mastery>>>>>>>haste.
    I know others who prefer spirit, it can be done either way. I prefer the extra throughput and have no mana troubles. Granted I'm at 8800 spirit from gear and have likely better gear than most, but I still started healing most raids and heroic fights around 7-7500 spirit and its simply gone up with gear. At those times, I was still gemming int because, well, I can. Also, always flask int and food buff int, it's a 1:1 trade so int >>>spirit there.
    MW healing may be simple but there are large variances in output based on skill/timing, call it what you want.

    Glyph lets you consume stacks at a 2/10s rate, and it's in feasible to generate more than that without 33% crit on average and constant casting. In other words, even in current BIS or close to it, is impossible to "cap" mana tea/cd consumption. As such, using it on cd properly is a gain.

    Jabbing for chi is superior. Faster chi gen, on demand, and it spits out smart heals. Also, it's currently cheaper than soothing so yeah. If you stack spirit, SCK can be used to chi gen.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 04:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    The answer to all "which is better" questions for monk healing: it depends.

    Chi Burst is better when you're wanting it for heavy clumped aoe healing, beyond even what Uplift can provide.
    Chi Wave is better for...everything else.

    If you're in a situation where Uplift is better than Chi Burst, which happens when there is any target spreading at all, then you should be using your 2 chi for Uplift and not Chi Burst for aoe healing situations. And if you're not using Chi Burst for aoe healing situations, then there's no point to having it.

    10 vs 25 does make a pretty big difference: even in 25s, Chi Burst can heal the whole raid (albeit aoe capped in the process), and Uplift can't.
    Uplift has higher throughout than chi burst around 7-8 targets and will likely have less overheal, generally speaking unless you mess up with ReM coverage uplift > chi burst. It's still a good back up though.
    Ps chi wave next patch ooohhh myyyy gosh. Sexy time.

  19. #19
    Er, yeah, well. 5.2 blows the L30 talent comparisons out of the water. Can't say I'm pleased with the new design, actually. There should be more ways to use Chi as a mistweaver, not less.

    5.2 also blows Chi Burst out of the water, in general. RIP Chi Burst, 5.2.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    The answer to all "which is better" questions for monk healing: it depends.
    Which is also why it feels really impossible to have a Mistweaver guide at the moment. First of all the class is in flux with every patch, and then the playstyle has changed so much with 5.1 that healing in 10 is a different world compared to healing in 25.
    Simple example, I am healing in 10, not using Chi Burst ever really and still relying on solid ReM/Uplifts. It works, since 10 are easy to cover. Another Monk on my server is also raiding 10, but playing his char like he read a 5.1 guide for 25man raiding. Using Chi Burst a lot, SCK a lot, even when there aren't a lot of people stacked. Let me put it like this: He is wasting a lot on some bosses (Garalon he barely breaks 50k HPS with Chi Burst, while you can still easily get 100k+ with Uplift, especially when your raid feels like being crushed), but would most likely get proper results in a 25man. However for 10man, his playstyle is just not optimal.
    I am really getting too old for this.

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