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  1. #41
    While everyone is busy showing off how super cool they are in this thread, did they forget that NORMAL mode raids are tuned so that you can go into them wearing 463 heroic 5 man gear and make progress, which will then drop 489/496.

    Yet LFR, which is often villified as being a cesspool of window licking mouth breathers that have a hard time remembering to not swallow their own tongue, requires a 460/470 iLvL to get in, and only drops 476/483 loot.

    So you basically need the same gear to do LFR as you need to do normal modes? Doesn't that seem odd?

    If LFR is for casuals to see the end game content, and a casual can easily hit 90 and get a full set of 450 crafted set appropriate for their class/spec and a 450 weapon from the Arena of Annihilation scenario, as well as a random 463's or 476 (Like the boots off killing Sha of Anger) then why isn't that good enough to get into MSV's tier? Then with some further upgrades here and there, get into HoF/ToES

    Seems LFR should have required 450/460 as that would let you do the first half in the crafted stuff, then the second half in heroic 5-man/LFR upgrades.

    But, of course, this thread is going to be full of hyperbole about how easy it is to get every slot full of 463, because bad RNG never happens and you get an upgrade every heroic run. And of course, 463 in every slot only gets you into MSV, so now you need to either upgrade every piece with JP (that is harder to farm than VP this expansion for some crazy reason) or rely on LFR loot from MSV, again, because bad RNG never happens, and you've NEVER spent your Elder Charm on 28g 50s.

    All of this, again, so you can run LFR. Because, as we all know, LFR is SRS BZN.
    Last edited by Deathgoose; 2013-01-07 at 09:39 PM.

  2. #42
    It should give a bonus for enchants/gems or a penalty for missing these. It makes no sense that 463 offspec gear with not a single enhancement on it counts the same as a set of gear with the perfect stats for your class and full enchants/gems.

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssion View Post
    The ones that have a clear anyways, a game can easily check for this.

    We know how to do these fights, we shouldn't have to spend so much gold to enter LFR again.

    They suck at replayability with alts.
    No, if you want that alt in the raid then you should have to earn it just like everyone else... being an 'alt' shouldn't entitle you to an easier path.

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  4. #44
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    The only thing that makes LFR difficult is being with 24 other strangers, that being the only hard boss, hence the slowdown on gearing up. Spend quality time with your character if you're a new 90, then be rewarded with your Satchel of Gold and Only Gold (chuckling in a joking matter).
    Last edited by Ceece; 2013-01-07 at 09:56 PM.

  5. #45
    Pandaren Monk Tokru's Avatar
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    Interesting, I didn't knew a payed "thousands of gold" for my two alts to enter lfr. You learn something new every day.

  6. #46
    Herald of the Titans Sibut's Avatar
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    I think the 460 req is ok, but the 470 for HoF and Terrace is kind of a kick in the balls. I'm really not going to do daily after daily on alts I run LFR with just to gear enough to run lfr, and rng has been pretty rough on my alts after 460 so it kind of sucks. I'd love to see the requirement lowered to 460 for the entire tier.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sibut View Post
    I think the 460 req is ok, but the 470 for HoF and Terrace is kind of a kick in the balls. I'm really not going to do daily after daily on alts I run LFR with just to gear enough to run lfr, and rng has been pretty rough on my alts after 460 so it kind of sucks. I'd love to see the requirement lowered to 460 for the entire tier.
    then slog thru LFR MSV until you get enough gear to boost you over 470.. if you dont want to do the dailies then dont... easy as that.

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  8. #48
    This is a terrible idea. Imagine 25 low geared alts in a LFR. I am pretty sure you would hit enrage timers or wipe due to insuficient healing or the likes. It is hard as it is to carry all those that cheesed their ilvl and those that afk. I would definetely not like to carry even lower ilvl people.

    Make it easier for alts to acquire basic gear to enter LFR in quick time yes absolutely, but your suggestion no sorry.

  9. #49
    Why should they allow ppl in with lower gear and water down the quality of groups even more? Do some heroics or some quests and get the item lvl you need or do a normal raid and get gear in there. LFR gives a ton already for little to no effort, we don't need to fast track this.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    While everyone is busy showing off how super cool they are in this thread, did they forget that NORMAL mode raids are tuned so that you can go into them wearing 463 heroic 5 man gear and make progress, which will then drop 489/496.

    Yet LFR, which is often villified as being a cesspool of window licking mouth breathers that have a hard time remembering to not swallow their own tongue, requires a 460/470 iLvL to get in, and only drops 476/483 loot.

    So you basically need the same gear to do LFR as you need to do normal modes? Doesn't that seem odd?
    That is because no one in LFR uses Potions, Flasks, Food and even gems/enchants. Higher item level requirements also account for the fact that a lot of people are AFK and auto attacking. It accounts for the bad players doing it.

    I don't know if anyone brought it up by now, but Ghostcrawler said they will increase the Drop chance of items in 5.0 LFR once 5.2 LFR comes out instead of making new dungeons. This is both lame and okay. Okay cause old raids will not be obsolete too fast and lame cause LFR sucks donkey baws.

  11. #51
    I got my alt Ilvl470 about 8 hours after dinging 80...granted I let my friends loan me 2 DMF trinkets for a boost worth of 2 Ilvls so realisticly I was 468. Get friends and spamm heroics for a day, upgrade with all justice points gained and tada.

    I'm willing to bet I'l get my second alt Ilvl470 within 2 days of dinging 90 again next time...even if you don't got 8 hours a day like I did, let's assume you only got 1-2 hours a day. Then it would still only take you 1 week to get geared....let's even assume it takes 2 weeks if you really really almost got no time at all. 2 weeks is nothing.

    I wish my alt would take a month to catch up on my main, I even wish they would reduce Ilvl off all LFR items with 5-10 levels...it's way to easy getting welfare epics ATM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lackluster View Post
    It should give a bonus for enchants/gems or a penalty for missing these. It makes no sense that 463 offspec gear with not a single enhancement on it counts the same as a set of gear with the perfect stats for your class and full enchants/gems.
    I support this, I wouldn't mind doing LFR so much if I wasn't grouped up with idiots getting loot for being idiots.
    Last edited by Sarac; 2013-01-08 at 12:18 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    That is because no one in LFR uses Potions, Flasks, Food and even gems/enchants. Higher item level requirements also account for the fact that a lot of people are AFK and auto attacking. It accounts for the bad players doing it.

    I don't know if anyone brought it up by now, but Ghostcrawler said they will increase the Drop chance of items in 5.0 LFR once 5.2 LFR comes out instead of making new dungeons. This is both lame and okay. Okay cause old raids will not be obsolete too fast and lame cause LFR sucks donkey baws.
    actually I know several that are full gemmed/enchanted/ pots/foods/flask... but of course, there are always some that will generalize.

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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    Then you are retarded.

    Once you are deck out in 463, you can use JP to upgrade those gear.

    Sha of Anger first kill gets you a pair of 476 boots guaranteed.

    Those alone, WILL get you to 471/2 ilvl, WITHOUT counting in any drops you can potentially get in MV with ilvl 460.
    ¿¿¿¿¿¿ You know getting full 463 gear and then upgrading them using 1500jp PER PIECE (around 30k JP) will take 4 months with these JP gains right?

  14. #54
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    Normally I'd be all in favor of making things easier on gearing alts but at this point in the expansion lowering ilvl requirements on alts for lfr I am not.
    I am working on my 4th 90 and it is very easy to get into MSV. The problem is with bad RNG on loot drops. Also the should not gate valor purchases as they do or add more free from rep. It is very easy to get the klaxxi 489 neck day 1 at 90 but other pieces not so much.
    "There are none so blind as those who will not see"

  15. #55
    I'm still trying to figure out where it was stated that valor gear was going to be purchaseable with justice points.

  16. #56
    I'm as casual as you can be, i have some alts and realy have no problem reaching the ilvl caps...

    Making the game easier is just bad. It's already as accessible as possible to casual people and people with alts...

  17. #57
    I disagree with this completely. The premise that players who have cleared LFR on their main toons play their alternate toons well enough to compensate for lower gear and should have fewer requirements to enter LFR is simply wrong.

    First, playing one character is no guarantee you know how to play another. For example, I play a holy paladin. That in no way means I would have any idea what I'm doing if I were to play a warlock. In this case, if I were to level a warlock alt and get into LFR with less than 463 item level, I would be hindering my group in 2 ways. My item level would be lower than intended and I would probably not peform well as a dps.

    Second, LFR encounter difficulty, while toned down significantly from normal mode, is still intended to be somewhat challenging for a group of players at the minimum gear requirement. This is offset by the fact that many players who enter LFR have substantially more than the minimum gear. However, if the average gear level of the group is lowered by alts with a reduced gear requirement, the encounters become more difficult than intended.

    Third, characters in key roles need a certain amount of gear to even be viable in raid encounters (even LFR). Undergeared tanks may not have enough mitigation to survive mechanics, or may not be able (regardless of skill) to maintain threat. Undergeared healers are even worse since they likely do not have capacity (again, regardless of skill) to maintian enough healing throughput or sustain enough mana to heal the fight successfully. Undergeared dps, while not as fatal to the group as a poorly geared tank or healer, cause fights to last longer, meaning more healing is necessary and tanks must survive more damage. Sometimes low dps means that mechanics become a larger problem such as being overwhelmed by the adds on Will or not killing shadow realm adds on Gara'jal.

    The fact that players with more gear but who are not as skilled are able to get into LFR before the alts of good players in now way changes any of these facts. In fact, it makes them more relevant because if an LFR group is full of relatively low skill but high gear players, the addition of undergeared characters could easily cause unnecessary wipes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 02:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox2042 View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out where it was stated that valor gear was going to be purchaseable with justice points.
    Although nothing's been announced yet, it's generally assumed that currencies will be converted down with the next raid tier release, along with the gear those currencies purchased. That of course assumes that new valor gear will become purchaseable with a new raiding tier.

    If new valor gear is made available, it makes little sense for the current 489/496 gear to still be on the same currency since players will simply ignore it in favor of buying a higher level piece for the same gear slot with the same price.

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    ¿¿¿¿¿¿ You know getting full 463 gear and then upgrading them using 1500jp PER PIECE (around 30k JP) will take 4 months with these JP gains right?
    or... you could invest a little time and gather up the 450 PVP pieces, save your honor... hit 90... grind TB and WG for a day or two... end up with full 458, grind maybe another day, upgrade it all... to 466... and then you've not spent any cash... if you bothered to have arch or inscription you'd have you a 463+ weapon available... then you are into LFR... 3 days max if you didn't bother planning ahead.

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  19. #59
    To everyone saying that gearing an alt is hard because of the rep requirements on valor gear... what?

    I just hit 90 on one of my alts, and I'm revered with the shado-pan, and 3 days worth of klaxxi dailes to hit exalted, without having done a single daily. The amount of rep you get from the story quests is absurd at double rep. That of course still leaves GL, but I'm sure you can live without valor point ring/shoulders. I hit 460 effortlessly within 24 hours.

  20. #60
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halifax View Post
    To everyone saying that gearing an alt is hard because of the rep requirements on valor gear... what?

    I just hit 90 on one of my alts, and I'm revered with the shado-pan, and 3 days worth of klaxxi dailes to hit exalted, without having done a single daily. The amount of rep you get from the story quests is absurd at double rep. That of course still leaves GL, but I'm sure you can live without valor point ring/shoulders. I hit 460 effortlessly within 24 hours.
    Exactly.. I have NO problems getting to 460 in the least... but then again... I now have five 90s... so maybe I have a bit more practice getting them to 460 than some.

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