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  1. #21
    I meant AP mages generally. You screw something, you are out. It's utter BS to ever expect somebody splitpushing or taking dragon with Ahri, you'll either assassinate people if they are bad, or stay with your team that has to do something.

    Even simplier, because it MAY fail, and enemy almost always has somebody that CANNOT fail, every time you are trying to make plays like that you have chance to screw your game. If you miss one of ten, it *might* mean you would win 10% more games as AD character.

    This is the part where playing fighter is much easier, as you can actually do get those global golds for your team if you are ahead, and in soloQ it's huge, because you ALWAYS must count with fact that teammates may fail or be just straight bad.

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    If you look at it in that perspective, yes, you have a point. I ignored the sentence completely, even mentally, due to simply being an opinion. Even stated. You are the one that bolded it, so I figured your response was pointed at the bolded part. Makes sense to me.
    I focused on the bolded part in my first reply, only expanding and explaining my train of thought later on. I guess that just invited confusion, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by AFK-Champion View Post
    I meant AP mages generally. You screw something, you are out. It's utter BS to ever expect somebody splitpushing or taking dragon with Ahri, you'll either assassinate people if they are bad, or stay with your team that has to do something.

    Even simplier, because it MAY fail, and enemy almost always has somebody that CANNOT fail, every time you are trying to make plays like that you have chance to screw your game. If you miss one of ten, it *might* mean you would win 10% more games as AD character.

    This is the part where playing fighter is much easier, as you can actually do get those global golds for your team if you are ahead, and in soloQ it's huge, because you ALWAYS must count with fact that teammates may fail or be just straight bad.
    And that makes a strong roamer/ganker in mid all the better in solo queue as after you push your lane you can reliably attack other lanes for your team mates and help them. Ahri is the very cream of gankers as far as AP mids go, with her kit extremely strong for that purpose. Do not blame the champion for your lack of skill with one of game's aspects, you are not going to improve that way.
    Last edited by Caine; 2013-01-07 at 04:16 PM.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I focused on the bolded part in my first reply, only expanding and explaining my train of thought later on. I guess that just invited confusion, sorry.

    And that makes a strong roamer/ganker in mid all the better in solo queue as after you push your lane you can reliably attack other lanes for your team mates and help them. Evelynn is the very cream of gankers as far as AP mids go, with her kit extremely strong for that purpose. Do not blame the champion for your lack of skill with one of game's aspects, you are not going to improve that way.
    Fixed for you :P

    Tried to check your game OP, but it's almost unwatchable for me. I think I might have an older version of lolreplay.
    Last edited by Proberly; 2013-01-07 at 09:36 PM.

  4. #24
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    i feel like of the more popular ap mid champs ahri does in fact rely more on her ability to land her skillshots and her roaming ability. ive seen a good charm make or break matches. also positioning yourself to get the maximum out of your q helps too. and like i said her ability to roam, the mid champ roam is a little underappreciated i think. even if you dont necessarily get a good gank and get a kill i think its worth it to put some pressure on the top or bottom lane especially early on. this is of course if your lane isnt being pushed and you have the ability to roam. if you are being out farmed and falling behing in levels i wouldnt really recommend roaming unless you know that top/bot isnt warded and/or you feel confident you can score a kill/assist.

    if you can sneak away and gank top or bottom and make the enemy return to base or burn a summoner spell then youve given your top/bottom lane a bit of an advantage and help your jungler out for when he comes around for a gank. just my thoughts however i could be totally wrong lol

  5. #25
    Thank you all for the wonderful advice. Ill defiantly keep trying to practice.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by AFK-Champion View Post
    I meant AP mages generally. You screw something, you are out. It's utter BS to ever expect somebody splitpushing or taking dragon with Ahri, you'll either assassinate people if they are bad, or stay with your team that has to do something.

    Even simplier, because it MAY fail, and enemy almost always has somebody that CANNOT fail, every time you are trying to make plays like that you have chance to screw your game. If you miss one of ten, it *might* mean you would win 10% more games as AD character.

    This is the part where playing fighter is much easier, as you can actually do get those global golds for your team if you are ahead, and in soloQ it's huge, because you ALWAYS must count with fact that teammates may fail or be just straight bad.
    You don't necessarily HAVE to land E to win a 1v1 duel with Ahri, unless its the AD carry late game. Her kiting and mobility make her extremely hard to catch - Charm is just the icing on the cake. Her cooldowns are so ridiculously short that she can generally reload and go for round 2. I have to completely, 100% disagree with statements she is a poor solo queue Mage. I would put her in T1 of solo queue carrys. She easily gained me 200 elo last season. I will agree though that many AP mids are as you've said - land all your shit and its a kill, miss and you're dead.

    Don't forget that, while E is unreliable for assassinating SPECIFIC targets in TFs (depending on positioning), she is still ridiculously good at protecting her ADC. She can also semi-initiate with charm - similar in a sense to Morg's binding. Late, late game I usually take on more of a protective, AoE damage role in TFs, as Ahri isn't at all tanky and, if she stays alive long enough, her sustained damage is first class.

    Another reason I'd choose her is lack of a counter pick. While everyone has counters,you can just push / hold your lane and continue to roam to get yourself fed. The only character I ever had issue with as Ahri was Swain (it should be obvious why). Contrary to popular belief, I never found Ryze to be a counter - unless you count 'scales better' as a counter. Get CP'd as Ahri? Lose lane, win game.

    Another extra tip for the OP:
    Your ult will not damage someone unless you have vision of them at the time of cast. for example, if an enemy runs into a bush, and you R into it after them, it will not do any damage to them. As such, try and avoid fighting in clumps of bushes too often. Great players will juke into bushes to avoid your damage (the 3 groups of bushes either side of mid river are the worst).
    Last edited by Hateful; 2013-01-08 at 12:53 AM.
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  7. #27
    Lol Ahri cant duel? If you are decently farmed you can 100-0 their AD withease. She is great for soloq gorellenlord got 3k elo by playing pretty much only ahri.

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Grading's Avatar
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    *ForellenLord, but yes. (He's the famous 3k ELO dude, obviously not in one of the very top teams since SoloQ heroes =/= good in a team.)

    Ahri is amazing in soloQ. All assassins are for the most part.

  9. #29
    You don't necessarily HAVE to land E to win a 1v1 duel with Ahri, unless its the AD carry late game.
    Even with few items, it's tricky to kill ADC without charming him/her first. If you are up to kill for example Ezreal with BT, and all you have is void staff and some lesser items, you're not likely going to win.

    On other hand if you take Kha/Zed with just BT, I'd favor them. And I don't even think that Zed is broken.

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFK-Champion View Post
    Even with few items, it's tricky to kill ADC without charming him/her first. If you are up to kill for example Ezreal with BT, and all you have is void staff and some lesser items, you're not likely going to win.

    On other hand if you take Kha/Zed with just BT, I'd favor them. And I don't even think that Zed is broken.
    Why would anyone ever rush Void Staff? Oo And honestly, all your arguments here are "you need to hit stuff or you are going to be in trouble". Well, duh. Captain Obvious much? :/ If you have that much trouble hitting skillshots stick to point-and-click champions yourself, but don't discourage others from great champions just because you don't feel confident hitting important abilities.
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  11. #31
    Hey, I sometimes go void staff first!

    It's not as bad as people think, atleast not in Domi, it brings damage and it actually is pretty damn good on a low level champion, assuming he went for MR first. It's not really as bad as you think but it probably is on SR.

    Why did I even type that, I bet this doesn't interest anyone since it's SR related.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by AFK-Champion View Post
    Even with few items, it's tricky to kill ADC without charming him/her first. If you are up to kill for example Ezreal with BT, and all you have is void staff and some lesser items, you're not likely going to win.

    On other hand if you take Kha/Zed with just BT, I'd favor them. And I don't even think that Zed is broken.
    It's really not. A huge portion of Ahri's burst comes from R + W. If all the ADC has is a BT and boots, Ahri will win even if she does miss her E. Remember as AP mid you should have several levels advantage over an ADC at any time.

    And I would never build Void first. Haunted Guise, possibly.

    In the case of Zed/Kha - Zed is laughably easy to kite if it was a 1v1 duel Ez v Zed - his ult is entirely dependent on sticking to his target, and Ez's mobility will waste it - not to mention his lack of reliable CC. Kha, sure.

    Anyway there's a thousand different variables when determining who would win a duel, and this is sort of semantics now!
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  13. #33
    Void Staff is now kind of mini deathcap even with nobody around building resists (assuming you have some very basic penetration like runes + boots).
    Did some maths, and Void staff is vastly superior to guise in terms of gold invested per damage increased against 42MR target.
    (boots and 7 penetration from runes as only inventory when considering, to be fair however, against 42 MR both items reduces enemy MR to about same number, and this is surprisingly close up to ~60, when void staff becomes much more ahead)

    Void staff is about 15 gold per extra damage, while guise is as bad as 40 gold for point of damage. But keep in mind that guise is smaller investment and gives some health as well.
    Last edited by AFK-Champion; 2013-01-08 at 04:58 PM.

  14. #34
    Elemental Lord Duilliath's Avatar
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    Liandry's is pretty decent on Ahri though, as she habitually builds Rylai's anyway.

  15. #35
    You should not need Rylais, but W is kinda weird spell that makes people build it (not only for the full slow proc, but mainly because it promotes kind of play that you would never do if you had just Q and E).
    I think that something like dorans with DFG rush and then void/dcap will still be the best, as on every burst mage.
    Why would anyone ever rush Void Staff?
    Because it was supposed to be Abyssal scepter, and for some weird reason I always place those two things together.
    If you have that much trouble hitting skillshots stick to point-and-click champions yourself, but don't discourage others from great champions just because you don't feel confident hitting important abilities.
    If you are stupid enough to not understand the point, then please close your browser and slap yourself in front of mirror.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFK-Champion View Post
    If you are stupid enough to not understand the point, then please close your browser and slap yourself in front of mirror.
    Don't steep down to insults, mmm? Unsightly.

    The point here is very simple and you are avoiding it. You CAN learn to reliably hit skillshots - not only "can" but "have to" unless you intend to play only a handful of champions. And Ahri, just as any other good AP carry, can easily 1v1 an AD carry assuming equal farm in mid game and should be able to pull off assassinating one in a mid-late game teamfights if you play your cards well.

    You advise against using Ahri in solo queue because, according to you, she can not carry the game as she can not be relied upon to hit her skills - which she needs to do to do well. This is ridiculous and bullshit, sorry. Ahri with her roaming is one of best AP mids for solo queue since not only you can snowball other lanes if you win yours but you also remain relevant and very scare up till the very end of the match.

    Stop trying to prove the champion is bad just because her damage is reliant on hitting your skillshots. -.-
    Last edited by Caine; 2013-01-08 at 07:55 PM.
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  17. #37
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    I'm no Ahri main nor professional, but here's what I do.

    Don't miss Charm or you'll die. That's not true 100% of the time, strictly speaking, but it's a good goal to aim for, because a lot of Ahri's dueling and teamfight power comes from Charm making that one person stick around just a little longer.

    Other than that, don't spam your ult for damage unless you absolutely need to, especially when dueling or picking off runaways. When dueling another midlaner, use the first charge to gap close (and dodge their skillshots if needed) to ensure all of your Foxfires hit them and not minions. Land a good Charm into double-hit Orb, ult for damage again if their jungler isn't there. Ignite early and don't forget to auto for extra damage. Don't use your last tick of ulti until they flash and/or your cooldowns come back up, or if their jungler shows up, use it to escape.

    Get a feel for how long that 10-second window is, and space out your ulti charges. When setting up a gank or starting a teamfight, don't ulti until you have to--as soon as you use that first charge, your team is pressured into fighting, and their team knows you're going to go in. If you don't then they can just wait out the other charges, then go in while your ulti is down. The less space you put between charges, the easier it is for your enemies to keep track of how many you have left--and if you can get them to misread how many ulti charges you have, it's relatively easy to bait them into unfavorable situations.

    In terms of building her, only 'stick' to any guide for builds until you're comfortable with the champion. Situational/predictive building is always better after you're comfortable--for Ahri, you can go raw damage if you like, but I find it much safer to have at least some HP (and maybe some MR/armor on top of that), so that you can dive when you need to or just take those extra few hits when escaping. Rylai's, Abyssal (note the aura range has been nerfed, so you really have to be next to people to get the extra -20MR), Zhonya's, Rod of Ages (expensive but also useful if you're getting outsustained/outpushed, like by a Morgana--pick up the early Catalyst to solve your mana problems so you can push back). DFG is very powerful on her if you're good at landing Charms, and the CDR is invaluable for boosting your effective DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by AFK-Champion View Post
    You should not need Rylais, but W is kinda weird spell that makes people build it (not only for the full slow proc, but mainly because it promotes kind of play that you would never do if you had just Q and E).
    Rylai's is a good go-to item for Ahri because it gives her HP and the slow, but like any skillshot champion, the slow makes it easier to land skillshots. It's not as necessary if you have a lot of hard CC like Sejuani/Amumu/Leona, but it's still a good item given how often Ahri wants to dive into the thick of things.
    Last edited by Bluesparkks; 2013-01-09 at 05:44 PM.

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