1. #1

    New Loot system to rid ninjas

    Hi all,

    I know most of you are probably sick of "still" getting ninja'd in 5mans, where most people go by the tank first rule / healer sometimes.

    Where this is coming from:

    Recently I as tanking on my alt and had a piece I've been trying to get for a while ninjad by the holy pali in the group and then he leaves group (obvious). Needless to say Blizzard didnt give a ____. Im sry but need for a player that que'd as that spec should have first dibs.

    Anyway, Need before greed is nice but it still is ninja worthy. How about one that is specs before need/greed. So to explain this, The tank would have first dips on the that tank gear since that is what he/she "que'd as" and then if he/she does not need that piece anyone can need/greed on it. For specs with multi use gear ma be harder to do but would stop alo of the ninjas that plaque this game.

    This to me would stop alot of hassle from imature or unrespecting players and make people that respect the system, less fun to play.

    With this being said, still think it should be fair between everyone, however, a dead tank is (8/10) a dead group.

    Hope everyone can agree to something like this so that this can be adressed, since Blizzard seems to think ninjaing is ok.

    Mahsa

  2. #2
    Problem with that is the same as it's always been - 5 mans are supposed to be the starting point for max-level gearing. There are some other methods like crafting and justice points, but those have always been designed as a supplement rather than a full gearing strategy.

    Basically, after you finish leveling, you have to go in to dungeons to gear up for whatever you want to do at max level -- and you may be doing so from a position where you have almost 0 gear for that role. Maybe you're a paladin that just finished leveling up as Ret, and want to tank - but you have no tank gear, so you queue up as ret with the express intent of gearing up your tank spec so that you can start tanking. You can't queue up as a tank because you don't have the gear to tank yet - maybe you haven't even seen a shield for 10 levels, so you do what you have to do.

    A reasonable thing to do may be to set a system where you can choose which role you're gearing as separate from which role you're playing as when you queue for an instance. That's something they've mentioned as a possibility for LFR raids, and it would work well in a 5 man setting as well. Until then, though, the fact that you can roll need on gear for your "off-specs" is a necessary evil in 5 mans, simply because it's not always a "ninja" when somebody does it.

  3. #3
    They don't think ninja'ing is ok, but they do think 'ninjas' are a community issue and as such, should be dealt with by the community. Strictly speaking Blizzard have defined their 'official' rules for looting: if you aided in the kill of the boss and are eligible for loot, then you have the right to roll on the loot in question (if the UI allows you). Anything beyond that is the community creating their own rules which are not supported by Blizzard.

    That said, Blizzard are probably just going to implement the LFR looting system into LFD runs as well. Problem solved.

  4. #4
    I do like that system that you mentioned. Since Random 5mans are bascially an LFR style, without the nerfs makes sense. Or at least do it for random heroics. I still will only greed off gear unless nobody else needs it. Even if I'm trying to gear for another spec.

  5. #5
    It isn't really ninja'ing... if they are taking it to use, and the loot system allows them to do so, while it sucks for you, is perfectly okay as far as Blizzard's "rules" as concerned. You can't report someone for hitting need on an item when the system allows it, what would you have them do? "By clicking on this button this item will be bound to you, also you will be banned!"?

  6. #6
    Your views and Blizzards differ. Blizzard's view counts.

    This has been beaten to death. If you don't like the system then run with guildies or friends or accept the consequences.

    Instead of making a new thread you could have posted in one of the hundreds of others expressing the same view (I lost a piece of loot and therefore the game needs to change)

  7. #7
    Needing on an item that isn't for the spec you're currently playing isn't ninjaing.

    Next.
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  8. #8
    Haha charo your taking that the wrong way. It's all to do with respect and the amount of tanks there are out there that suck are usually caused by getting gear other means and not knowing thier defensive abilites etc..... like I said I know it's not an easy fix and it hard to balance. However with that being said, when someone ques as something they are trying to get gear for that class, so when someone else gets it, kinda seem pointless. I got all my gear rdy for heroics jsut by greeding things, it's an alt after all it does not need to take time. But also take in to concideration that there are people in the game that do not want to raid/or dont plan on to. So these "casual" players that may be on 1-2 time a week will feel really out of place if they loose that piece of gear that they worked so hard to get. I think you should have to be that spec, but thats just me, cause everyone need practice before they use that class. So dps grind for tank gear then jump right into raid tanking, mostl likely going to be squishy becuase you don't know what you are doing. Like last night we had 2 pali tanks, both were not hit capped, 1 was exp 11% way to high, and 1 was not reforged at all. So, it may be good for the gear but you do not learn the class and will cause mroe arguments in the later.

    But again, I'm not trying to argue that this is the correct way it was an idea and I agree on the lfr systme for lfd with gear slecetor before starting. That would work the best. That way everyone is happy, but I do think that they need and exp level as that spec score for raids. to make up for not practicing the spec.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 07:59 AM ----------

    Yes it is when a tank needs it and is qued as tank,... next

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 08:00 AM ----------

    Since this looks like its going to get in to an arguement of loot syste, not surprised I will not be commmenting anymore. Just pointless junk wasting up space. Supposed to be a duiscussion....(points at broloth)

  9. #9
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    if the need button is lit, and you can roll on an item it is NOT Ninjaring.
    Really getting tired of people who think that because someone else rolls on loot they think they have more right to is a ninja.

    Go research on what ninja looting is.
    Last edited by Sigma; 2013-01-07 at 12:03 PM. Reason: spelling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahsa View Post
    Yes it is when a tank needs it and is qued as tank,... next
    No it's not. You are wrong. This isn't an opinion thing, it's a right or wrong thing, and you sir, are wrong. Next.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard
    A player using the "Need" or "Greed" rolling option to win a loot roll (including rolls for off-spec items) is not breaking any rule, and is simply using the loot mechanics as designed. Blizzard will not take any action in the following situations.
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  11. #11
    Warchief Kilpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siggma View Post
    if the need button is lit, and you can roll on an item it is NOT Ninjaring.
    Really getting tired of people who think that because someone else rolls on loot they think they have more right to is a ninja.

    Go research on what ninja looting is.
    So when the looting wasn't change and everyone could click Need it wasn't ninjaing when someone clicked Need on everything?

  12. #12
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...zzard-s-stance

    What if I disagree with the way loot is distributed? Isn't that ninja looting?
    Not necessarily. A player using the "Need" or "Greed" rolling option to win a loot roll (including rolls for off-spec items) is not breaking any rule, and is simply using the loot mechanics as designed. Blizzard will not take any action in the following situations.
    We will not be able to assist if:

    Need Before Greed was used as the looting method. This is the mandatory loot method for groups created using the Dungeon Finder.
    Group Loot, Round Robin, or Free-for-All was used as the looting method.
    Master Looter was used as the looting method, but rules were not clearly established.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
    Sigma : Super Intelligent Giant Moldy Anchovy

  13. #13
    Sorry to break it for you OP, there is no more ninjaing in WOW.
    When someone can click need he is entiteled to recieve this loot.

    Its sad to hear tanks crying about loot issues.
    When i go to an instance as a caster DPS, i have to compete against the healer and 1-2 other caster DPS. EVERY freaking run. Yeah sometimes there are two melee dds lined up with me but thats really rare.
    So chances that a tank gets his gear faster due to less competition on the item. And additionally the tank has instant queues.
    Stop crying, grow up to something you would call a MAN.

    Keep it civil
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-01-07 at 12:18 PM.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilpi View Post
    So when the looting wasn't change and everyone could click Need it wasn't ninjaing when someone clicked Need on everything?
    Pretty much. It is annoying when it happens but I've found asking them nicely for the best back works...50% of the time.



  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilpi View Post
    So when the looting wasn't change and everyone could click Need it wasn't ninjaing when someone clicked Need on everything?
    Correct, and that's why Blizzard didn't do anything about those reports back then.
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    Sorry to break it for you OP, there is no more ninjaing in WOW.
    When someone can click need he is entiteled to recieve this loot.
    Wrong, check BoE epics/blues from LFR.

  17. #17
    Oh god I hope the LFR loot system does not make it into dungeons.

    But seeing as scenarios already do it that's only a matter of time.

  18. #18
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3811496989#20

    A CM actually stating

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlyia
    I believe this has been sufficiently answered -but just to reiterate.
    No, it's neither harassment NOR ninja'ing to roll on any item the system allows one to.
    Nor is it against any rules to votekick a member from the group - one person can't do it, apparently someone agreed with the rogue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
    Sigma : Super Intelligent Giant Moldy Anchovy

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahsa View Post
    Since this looks like its going to get in to an arguement of loot syste, not surprised I will not be commmenting anymore. Just pointless junk wasting up space. Supposed to be a duiscussion....(points at broloth)
    I didn't see this. I guess there is little reason to leave this open.



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