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  1. #21
    We do reasonable single target and fairly good large area AoE when specced for it. You shouldn't expect to be awesome at everything at the same time.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Conjor View Post
    They tried changing BA in the past and they didn't like how it played. It's unlikely they would try it again. And we are not a cleave class. If you want strong cleave, roll a rogue or warrior. If no one noticed, we have the strongest sustained AoE spec in the game and our single target is up there. Can't have everything...
    don't know what class you are playing but mages locks DKS and boomkins all beat hunters in AoE, and Warriors Mages Locks and DKs also beat hunter easily single target.

    The ONLY time Hunter AoE tops the others is with more then 12 targets, and that simply does not happen in raid encounters.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Hunters are dealing shitloads of AoE, why is this change needed?
    AOE and cleave are not the same thing.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    Between traps, Multi-Shot, aoe-based pets (theres a chimera there for you, btw), Lynx Rush, Glaive and Beast Cleave - I Feel that we have enough AoE damage abilities. We don't need Blade Flurry.
    Pets don't auto attack when using the aoe abilities. aka no beast cleave

  5. #25
    IMO This is how it should be.

    AOE - All classes should have decent to good aoe.

    Cleave and Multidotting - Classes should be able to do either or, whether it be good or decent.

    As of right now, hunters don't have the latter. We can spam SS on all targets and get 'ehh' type of results, but its not enough.

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    I can also agree with Puerto's proposal. I think the problem with Cleave/Multidot is that it's still one those toys which hasn't been fully socialized yet.

    Once upon a time "AoE" was also one of those spottily-distributed toys and if you encountered a massive pack of stuff you felt more-or-less useless depending on class/spec. Devs realized that was frustrating, decided AoE packs were here to stay, and so more-or-less gave an AoE tool to everybody.

    Cleave/Multidot is still in that gray area where sometimes it's very strong, other times irrelevant, and so certain classes/specs artificially spike and drop in perceived usefulness. A better design stance ("2-boss fights are cleave fights", or "Cleaving mechanics aren't working") is probably necessary.

    In the "ST, Cleave, AoE" proposal, then yeah, having Aspect of Cleavage would be perfectly fine. I just don't want more haphazard "Well, we have no idea what new toy we could possibly add to this spec — BUT WAIT! LET'S CLEAVE!" that's been going on since Cata.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    I mean, they even gave Frost Mages a cleave with the Ice Lance Glyph. They didn't want cleaves in the game, they wouldn't have added that glyph.
    That's not a cleave. Cleave is consistently hitting a second add without a dps loss.

    Spamming ice lance without procs isn't gonna shoot you up on the meters.

  8. #28
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    I'd argue cleave is being able to do damage to a secondary or even tertiary target as an effect on a single target spell (IE, without having to radically change things up).

    IE, frost lance glyphed, blade flurry, sweeping strikes, howling blast, old school Seal of Cleave (whatever it was called), etc.

    This is different from ST rotation vs. multi-target rotation, IE, swapping out Crusader Strike for Divine Storm/Hammer of the Righteous, or working Thrash into your rotation as feral, or using CL on Maelstromx5 instead of LB. I don't generally think that's "OP" because it requires a decision each time you press it - "Do I use CS or DS? Do I use CL or LB?"

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    IMO This is how it should be.

    AOE - All classes should have decent to good aoe.

    Cleave and Multidotting - Classes should be able to do either or, whether it be good or decent.

    As of right now, hunters don't have the latter. We can spam SS on all targets and get 'ehh' type of results, but its not enough.
    I agree with you. I still feel that it isn't quite fair. There are very few situations where AoE is needed on boss fights (the only thing that really comes to mind is Elegon and maybe Mel'jarak), but quite a lot of bosses where cleave and multidotting is insanely good. The problem with hunters atm is that as soon as a second target appears every other class pretty much doubles their damage while hunters have roughly the same as before.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    In the "ST, Cleave, AoE" proposal, then yeah, having Aspect of Cleavage would be perfectly fine. I just don't want more haphazard "Well, we have no idea what new toy we could possibly add to this spec — BUT WAIT! LET'S CLEAVE!" that's been going on since Cata.
    For my part, I just don't want a frost DK or combat rogue alt to be more useful than my main.

  11. #31
    I really think aspects need to be removed, while cheetah can be used during encounters with a little clever usage, really the only combat option you ever use is AoTH, which makes it kind of silly to have an aspect system with only one aspect. AoTH can easily be built right into the class, and cheetah and pack can be worked in other ways. If they are going to replace it, I think what they had thought some time ago now with having different arrows would work.

    Admittedly, fights like Garalon can go DIAF, but at the same time, with hunters being able to do 100% dps while moving now, we do have advantages in other places, but it's just nothing overkill...which is fine by me. It really all boils down to encounter design problems than all-out class problems. It would suck if every class had the same exact advantages, then you may as well have one class.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBitt View Post
    If they are going to replace it, I think what they had thought some time ago now with having different arrows would work.
    I would absolutely love Hunters getting "Ammo" abilities analogous to Rogue Poisons. Sort of like the Guild Wars Ranger's "Preparation" abilities.

    Flaming arrows, ice-tipped bullets, etc. Would be a lot more flavorful than "HAI GUYS I MAKE ANIMAL NOISES OINK OINK MOO :D".

  13. #33
    if its only 1 target, its pretty much worthless... you can double dot with SS and attack each target to keep the dots up and the dps is fine. Yes our cleave from 1-3 mobs isn't great but now with SS buff, its still manageable when used correctly.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    I would absolutely love Hunters getting "Ammo" abilities analogous to Rogue Poisons. Sort of like the Guild Wars Ranger's "Preparation" abilities.

    Flaming arrows, ice-tipped bullets, etc. Would be a lot more flavorful than "HAI GUYS I MAKE ANIMAL NOISES OINK OINK MOO :D".
    id like to see something like this implemented, for example making a 'fire ammo' leaving behind a stackable dot but does little upfront damage compared to another ammo type that delivers more upfront burst damage on a cd so it doesnt become stupid op, then of course the pvp ammo that has a chance to proc a root or disorient. maybe even have an ammo resource that refunds a little health on proc since hunters outside of spirit beast dont have access to minor healing like some of the other hybrid classes have...?

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