5.2 Enhancement DPS Talents discussion

[Nitwit]

I can't speak to EB, because I only tried it briefly, and couldn't stand the hardcasting aspect of it. If it was allowed to be instant, with MSWx5, then I might enjoy it.

EB is affected by maelstrom weapon and always has been.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 12:44 PM ----------

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 05:20 PM ----------

Actually, i dont think the sim is working for set bonuses atm, results look weird. Getting a massive dps loss upgrading 2x normal t14 to t15 and a 510 to 528 weapon

Any chance you could post the profiles you're using to draw this comparison (pastebin links would be fine) and/or provide any more specifics (e.g. how massive is "massive," what items, specifically, are you swapping around, perhaps a link to your armory, etc.)?

[Embermoon]

EB is affected by maelstrom weapon and always has been.

What!? I'll have to play around with it. Have you used it/have an opinion on it's viability?

[Corixa]

EB is affected by maelstrom weapon and always has been.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 12:44 PM ----------


Any chance you could post the profiles you're using to draw this comparison (pastebin links would be fine) and/or provide any more specifics (e.g. how massive is "massive," what items, specifically, are you swapping around, perhaps a link to your armory, etc.)?

lol dw, i was way too tired last night and have pvp trinket on (only just saw that)

[Jecht]

Just finished off Lei Shen before the servers went down and picked up a Rune of Re-Origination. When it procs I go over 25000 MASTERY but I belive its more noticeable if I stack haste instead!

Next lockout I'll share my thoughts on it!

[Thanntos]

All I've done so far (Doing 2 split raids), will update with more later on. ;O

Hey Defines, how do you like the 2pc-T15/2pc-T14 compared to 4pc T14?

[Defines]

Hey Defines, how do you like the 2pc-T15/2pc-T14 compared to 4pc T14?

It's interesting, I've somewhat adapted my play-style to dump >3 Maelstrom Stacks + Lightning Bolt before Stormstrike, because you always get 2 stacks of maelstrom from SS, and it's a pretty high probability that you'll get additional maelstrom stacks, so it's important to not waste them by capping. I'm waiting for a simcraft update to see if EoE + UF will be close to EM / PE with the 2pc (massive increase in frequency of Lightning Bolt casts), as it was close on patch day (132k EoE / UF vs. 134k EM / PE).

Regardless of this, I'll probably be running Echo / UF (Maybe PE) on the majority of fights, Anything with adds / target switching that require consistent DPS, will be grounds for going EoE / UF. However fights like Jon'Rokh, Megaera, Iron Qon, Twin Consorts etc, I'll be going EM / PE.

Actually, i dont think the sim is working for set bonuses atm, results look weird. Getting a massive dps loss upgrading 2x normal t14 to t15 and a 510 to 528 weapon

This was happening to me also, Simcraft was saying I would lose a good 8k DPS from upgrading a 517 to 522 weapon, updated simcraft and it showed it as a 2k DPS increase....

[psir]

Few questions:

So basically, fights where there is AoE and alot of target switching we do UF/EoE? And when the damage is burst or continous, we do EM/PE?

I'm thinking that the Fire Elemental glyph is a dps increase, since you get around 3 Fire Elementals each fight, and for each one you get to use EM for 20 seconds. And every 3 minutes, you get to use EM, Ascendance and fire elemental.

And when bloodlust is active, never activate EM, because it doesn't stack?

[shokter]

Can anyone clarify please the best way to get the most from Primal fire Elemental. I have seen people say do not cast the Empower buff and instead let it attack. Is this correct? In that case what role does the Empower serve?

[Defines]

Can anyone clarify please the best way to get the most from Primal fire Elemental. I have seen people say do not cast the Empower buff and instead let it attack. Is this correct? In that case what role does the Empower serve?

Let it attack, empower is a throughput / healing CD for Resto Shamans.

[Ryethe]

517 to 522 MAIN HAND could quite possibly be a downgrade since you are loosing the 500 stat gem. 528 was enough to dump my 517 barely. So with that said I'm goin to hazard a guess that 510 to 522 should be a slight upgrade in most cases. Try resimming with the latest version.

wrt Fire Ele glyph - You have to be really attentive to the fight length to make it work. For every 1 unglyph cast you would have to be able to get 2 glyphed casts off to improve the uptime. This is key because you would need to be injecting a crapton of stats that would wouldn't get on the glyphed version to make up for 25%-50% uptime decreases. Rule of thumb is 3-5m or 9-10 minutes glyph it. Some fights to think about using it include twins and lei shen off the top of my head.

One thing to keep in mind with EoE and UF is that specific combo was simming high at the start of the tier due to 4PC T14. You won't have that once you have 2PC but it's still worth simming the combo.

For the questions about EOE vs. EM and UF vs. PE a good rule of thumb is to think of downtime. ie. are there things that take you away from the boss? If yes then you want to think about picking up CDs so you can front load your damage. To use a contrived example, say you take sustained DPS talents you have a damage potential of 1 at all times. Now if you take CDs your damage potential is 1.25 with the CDs up vs. 0.75 with them down. Now when you move, the sustained talent setup is losing 1 every moment you aren't on the boss, whereas the burst setup is only loosing 0.75 (since you've already front loaded your damage). The numbers are of course contrived but you should get the idea.

Things like adds will throw a wrench in that idea (ie. is there 1 add that needs to die fast? Are there multiple adds that need to be AoEed? Are the multiple adds that need to be swapped to individually? etc) so ymmv.

[Defines]

517 to 522 MAIN HAND could quite possibly be a downgrade since you are loosing the 500 stat gem. 528 was enough to dump my 517 barely. So with that said I'm goin to hazard a guess that 510 to 522 should be a slight upgrade in most cases. Try resimming with the latest version.

Wouldn't you just throw your 517 in your OH, that way you still benefit from the 500 stat gem?

[Ryethe]

Wouldn't you just throw your 517 in your OH, that way you still benefit from the 500 stat gem?

Yeah of course. That one is more obvious since it's just straight ilvl upgrade and you can still add the bonus socket (this is what I did when a 522 dropped). Just wanted to outline approximate minimums for dropping that stat gem.

[Falko]

The 522 has a regular gem slot. So it's not the whole 500 agi you loose. On the other hand the base agi is higher on the 517 than on the 528 (637 vs 626). Weird shit...

On a side note I've some troubles to trust simcraft blindly. Especially after I took a look at first week's raidbot numbers....

[Corixa]

On a side note I've some troubles to trust simcraft blindly. Especially after I took a look at first week's raidbot numbers....

looks fine to me, dont forget simcraft is modelling a patchwerk style fight

[Defines]

The 522 has a regular gem slot. So it's not the whole 500 agi you loose. On the other hand the base agi is higher on the 517 than on the 528 (637 vs 626). Weird shit...

On a side note I've some troubles to trust simcraft blindly. Especially after I took a look at first week's raidbot numbers....

The 522 / 528 weapon has less base agi because of the gem socket. Combine the Socket bonus and Agi gem you put into the weapon, and it'll have higher agi overall.

[Cyclonus]

The 522 / 528 weapon has less base agi because of the gem socket. Combine the Socket bonus and Agi gem you put into the weapon, and it'll have higher agi overall.

Yes this is how i understood it as well.

[Alexenglish]

Is it worth it using a 535 Ilvl str weapon as opposed to a 502 agi weapon?

[Rangar]

Is it worth it using a 535 Ilvl str weapon as opposed to a 502 agi weapon?

Yes. Str still has some benefit for us and weapon damage is fairly high on our statistical priorities.

[Alexenglish]

Cheers! Should've asked this in my previous post as well, what about 535 Str weapon as opposed to a 522 AGI weapon.

[kubuntu]

1 agi=2ap (plus 5% mail bonus so 2,1) and some crit
1 str=1AP

4765 dps , 674 AP from STR and more secendary stats vs 4222 dps 1234 Ap from Agi

535 str> 522 agi