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  1. #1

    10H Gara'jal - Helpless

    HEy Folks,

    so since last we are back on gara'jal hc after we did a brake on hc content.
    So our raid comp for garajal is:

    blood dk
    tank warri

    smiter
    restrodrood
    paladin

    mage
    rogue
    afflilock
    wwmonk
    warri/hunter

    at first we startet with two healers (leting our drood go kitty)...but we had a problem with some totems when both other healers are blocked with debuffs, because our kitty wasn't able to heal up 2 dds and himself without hotw and tranq, which made it a one time option....
    the damage was fine and we would beat the enrage, but the heal was to weak.

    so then we tryed 2 healers (pali and drood) and a smiter. we had no problems with the totems anymore but we weren't able to bring enough dps. we had several wipes with gara'jal at about 20%. we pushed further and were able to bring him down to rougly 10% (i think... it definitly were 10mio hp)...

    because there are currently a lot of guilds killing him with 2 healers and 1 smiter i was just wondering if we maybe handle the totems not well enough.
    so what we do is:
    first totem: affli + melee + heal
    2nd: mage + melee+heal

    and then rinse and repeat. sometimes there are some modifikations due to the debuffs...

    we are pulling totem 1 asap and lusting at ~25%... we also tried lusting at the beginning which felt way better but still we weren't able to push him

    i don't know i just read a lot of posts in this forum or watched several videos ... i always thought we aren't doing anything different ... our dds item lvl is at about ~485 - 490 (same for healers and tanks...)


    i'd really be happy if you guys could provide some help....


    ps: i'm sorry for my bad english

  2. #2
    For our first kill, we just 2 healed it until totem RNG lined up.

  3. #3
    you should definately lust at the start and everybody should do dps with a prepot, including your healers, especially the druid with HotW.

    also, try always sending down 3 people but having one of the dds come up immediately if there's not much to do in the spirit world. the las totem should be used by execute classes like warrior/warlock.

    485-490 is more than enough gear to beat the enrage, we wiped @5-20% when we still had 470-476 gear. some of your dds might be underperforming.
    Shootz' Law (Cya Godwin)
    As an MMO-Champion discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving 25s and 10s approaches 1. In other words, Shootz observed that, given enough time, in any MMO-Champion discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison between 25s and 10s.

  4. #4
    It would be nice if we knew what the problem was. Is there not enough dps? Or are people dying before you can kill him?

    Lust & prepot at the start, and make sure the healers are doing a few things: When they go into the spirit realm, have them heal themselves first (for the buff & button), then the DPS, then do a few more casts on themselves before they leave. This helps with stacks of the spirit buff. Once they come out, spam nuke heals on people with voodoo dolls until either the buff drops, or the next healer comes out of the spirit realm. Ideally, to take full advantage of the buff from the spirit realm, all healers would want to go into the spirit realm with less than 20-30% mana. This is why I mentioned to heal themselves first, to get enough mana back to spam the DPS in there with them.

  5. #5
    2 heal it. If RNG is bad and you can't send a healer down, have the feral druid drop down and HOTW - healing touch spam.

    Delay the first totem. Wait until ~10 seconds before the first tank gets banished, send 2 dps and a healer each time if you're 2 healing.

    If you are 3 healing, then send 1 dps + 1 heal. Alternate sending 2 DPS and 1 - this will line up when there are Severers to kill and when there aren't.

    Prioritize sending warlock, warrior/hunter, monk or mage down. Don't send rogue down, ever - let him tunnel boss.

    Take 5 totems total. Once 5th totem is dead, if another tank gets banished have him DPS small adds (NOT SEVERERS) and die - then BRES him. Don't kill any more totems after 5th.

  6. #6
    Definitely 2 heal it. Make sure tanks are always using CDs to minimize damage taken, as it'll jump to vodoo doll'd players.

  7. #7
    I see a lot that may help you, but let me share our tactic.

    We 2 heal it, whenever both of the healers can't go in, we send in our Lock or our shadow priest solo, they heal themselves up and kill as much as possible.
    this brings us just right with the enrage. we bloodlust just before he enrages to finish him of ASAP.
    also, lately our DPS has been increasing, so now we no-longer help the last tank out (OT) we let him die and CR him if we still can to finish the boss.

    Good luck

  8. #8
    We 3 heal it, lust at the start, delay 1st totem by 15 seconds and 1 healer and 1 dot class go down, they come back with 2 seconds left, and then the cleanup team goes next time.

    By delaying it, the 1 healer/1 dps team will never get voodoo dolls and it makes it really easy to manage, and a dot class will almost kill everything down there, while you have more people dpsing the boss.

    I have also done it with another group, they just sent 1 shadow priest and 1 healer every 2 totems, and that was it. Fastest kill I've ever seen. It was 2 healed.

    Problem with 2 heals is you can have bad RNG where one healer has voodoo and the other has the debuff and can't go, and if you have an hybrid he can also have one of those 2 and you're screwed.. but it's kind of easy to 3 heal and makes a huge difference for the healing outside obviously.
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest
    Formerly in Razzia Arthas-US (US #6), no new home yet, surprise guild disbands just before xpac are fun!

  9. #9
    We also had a problem with low dps, 3 healers. What happened was that you had a 3 man group going into the totem. The healer healed the dps till they got the button then went out.
    The problem is that the damage increasing buff is applied then and when the dps comes out they already wasted half inside. We had the healer stay inside with the dps and heal them both to refresh the buff just as you come out. It really made a difference.
    Last edited by neghinitza; 2013-01-08 at 07:30 AM.

  10. #10
    Also, lusting on the pull will help you more with the enrage timer. Lusting at 25% will help you more with the healing at the end if that ends up being an issue. Either way is doable.

    Make sure you're rolling raid/tank CDs when he hits 20% or voodoo dolls will get global'd.

  11. #11
    We 2 man heal it - for the first totem we only send a boomkin and a healer in the spirit world - the boomkin can pretty much clear the spirits on his own - also in the later phases. BL on the pull ofc for max dps on the boss.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    We found it much easier to two heal than to three heal.

    Maybe it's just massive RNG luck but we found that, if we had a healer in the spirit world whilst he picked new dolls, the other healer would never get a doll. So what we did is assign a "tank group", composed of a healer, a dot class and a melee (on our kill this was a Holy Priest, Fire Mage and an Enh Shamy). This group ALWAYS goes down 5 seconds (or so) before Garajal banishes the tank. Then, a little bit after that, we'll send the other healer with one or two dps (depending on how many adds are up).

    We cleared him like this on our first raid night on him. We had spent like 2 hours trying with 3 healers, then we just switched to 2 and killed him on the 3rd try.

    EDIT:

    Regarding BL - We preferred to use it at 20% due to the massive damage everyone's taking. We just have everyone pre-pot for the pull and blow all cooldowns then save the big ones (and the fight pot) for 20% so it all ligns up with Hero/BL.

    EDIT 2:

    The first group to go down is always the tank group and only 5 seconds before the tank gets banished, so the first totem is delayed until then, which gives us more than enough time to decide who'll be the group.
    Last edited by Grimord; 2013-01-08 at 07:34 AM.

  13. #13
    Prettty sure we always 3 heal it. Here is how we do it.

    Bloodlust at start, as soon as the BL ends, hunter (as SV) + Rogues goes in. The rogue pops out instantly and the hunter serpent stings and does barrage. All adds should die, almost. At the second totem we have a warlock and a DK go in, warlocks and boomkins are really good for the totems, but in the first totem there arent that many adds, and the hunter is enough for them.

    Keep the rotation up, send the warlock, hunter (boomkin, SP if you have) in as often as you can. Not sure how well mages do in there. Never raided with one. If you 2 heal it, the dps should absolutely no problems, but if it is it seems that you just have do pull out more damage per each player.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome
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    We 3 heal (because we don't have a Holy Pally who is ideal for this), lust at start, priority for totems is aff lock, spriest, and mage, and if necessary a melee (dk) to help if it gets crowded. Spriests and Aff Locks can handle the spirit world by themselves and help out the tank's big adds as well.

    Consider having your holy pally use HoP on your Tank with Voodoo. While the tank has voodoo he will not lose aggro on boss, and the two raid members will take zero damage.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Maybe it's just massive RNG luck but we found that, if we had a healer in the spirit world whilst he picked new dolls, the other healer would never get a doll.
    This. Also, on attempts where we 3 healed, sometimes we would have 1 healer debuffed, and 2 healers would get voodoo dolls, and we'd be screwed. I think there's something coded so that you should 2 heal it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    This. Also, on attempts where we 3 healed, sometimes we would have 1 healer debuffed, and 2 healers would get voodoo dolls, and we'd be screwed. I think there's something coded so that you should 2 heal it.
    If that ever happens you can try and send down people with offspec heals or self heals to just get in and out after killing severers.

    For instance, a mage with invocation and evo glyph can get out easily with the help of a healthstone or like a DK glpyed the deathstrike heal.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Durahal View Post
    If that ever happens you can try and send down people with offspec heals or self heals to just get in and out after killing severers.
    Sure... but the point in 3 healing is so that won't happen, and it still happens anyway. So 2 heal it.

  18. #18
    When you say you have a Smiter, why not have your Priest go Shadow instead and be the offhealer - NOT THE DRUID?

    Shadow Priests are THE BEST offspec healer for this fight. Binding Heal is literally MADE for this fight.

  19. #19
    This fight is bullshit by design, let me tell you this.
    We killed it after bout ~20 attempts, many of these being VERY low% wipes (record wipe - 54,000 health!!!)

    We used 2.5 healers - pala, shammy and a disc priest who was also DPSing. Tanks - blood dk & prot pala. DPS - hunter, shaman, DK, warrior, warlock.
    Worst part of this encounter is amount of RNG in 10-man. If you have vodoo doll debuff and get targeted by many adds outside - you're fucked, it's OHKO.
    Spirit realm debuff + vodoo doll RNG is another thing that can mess you up a lot.

    We used BL on pull, with potions and all cooldowns up to ditch most DPS while we're still with full 10 ppl dpsing the boss.
    In phase 2 raidleader was telling healers when to heal and when to DPS. We -barely- met the enrage timer, had around 10 secods spare.

    This fight is RNG bitch and huge gear check. We tackled elegon heroic next and it died with almost 2 minutes left on his enrage so compare that.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    From what you're writing, you should just be few tries away from a kill.

    I wouldn't change to 2-heal. Not with a DK Tank. We had same Setup with a Guardian instead of a Warrior Tank. DK Tank takes significantly more damage as the warrior. 2 Heal can be quite hard with a DK Tank. Needs perfect cooldown rotation. I start tanking the fight with my DK. On the 2nd Tank Rotation I find myself without a cooldown with some bad RNG. I need Safeguard + Ironbark and possibly a Painsup so Dolls don't get gibbed. With 2 Heal you only have 1 Heal on the Dolls and possibly one external cooldown less on the DK. Can be quite unforgiving.

    Would be helpfull to have a combatlog for detailed help. We had like 30% left when the Enrage hit the first try we got to it. We then changed to 2.5 Healing with a Disc. Got down to like 15-20% - much like you. After that, it just was about finetuning the DPS numbers and properly execution the mechanics. In the end we had like 5 secs left on the clock without changing the setup. What helped for us:

    - Totems would die pretty slowly. We had everyone improve on that, so that totems would die faster.
    - Healers in the Spirit Realm needed to really step up the overhealing. DDs need to come out with like 20+ Stacks. Refresh it shortly before you exit the spirit realm on everyone down there.
    - If Adds are dead, don't stay down there. Go up again. If adds are low, don't send 2 DPS down there since it's a DPS waste.
    - Prioritize Warlock over the other DDs. He can clean up pretty nicely. Dont ever send a rogue down there.
    - Always pick the Warrior over the Hunter. You wrote Warrior/Hunter. Hunter shouldn't even be a decision, unless he seriously outshines the warrior. Warrior really shines <20%.
    - Pick your highest Single Target DPS for this fight + your Warlock.
    - Your OT needs to taunt the Boss on Cooldown as soon as your MT has the Doll. He gets Vengeance everytime he taunts. Something around 20k and can push it up to like 40-45k. Thats significant DPS Boost for you.
    - Lust at the Pull with Pots an everything. The 20% phase shouldn't be a healing issue with 3 heals. You have so many CDs. Have your Resto go HOTW during Bloodlust and your Priest Smite it all out. Have your Pala solo Heal and your starting Tank stack his CDs. Our Raid mostly doesn't drop at all during Bloodlust, since there aren't any adds alive etc. All your healers should prepott/DPS during Bloodlust. If you lust <20%, you lose all your healer dps since they need to heal the burst. Healer DPS with HOTW and everything can easily be 5% total damage.

    Someone wrote in another thread, that BoP now drops the tank and forces a Doll Change. You can't use that anymore to immune the tank. So be carefull.

    Don't know about all that totem delaying and stuff - never did it, never needed it. But it might work for you as it seems to work for others.

    Hope those tipps should net you a kill without needing to change too much

    EDIT:

    Yes, this encounter sucks and is full of RNG. We had like 10-12 tries on our first kill, that really fucked us RNG wise. Just ress up and try again.
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-01-08 at 12:23 PM.

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